mcnach Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 I was trying to blend my EHX Bassballs with some clean signal, like I do with several other pedals using a Boss LS-2. But with this pedal it seems that the output is severely decreased and sounds... "funny". So I suspect that the effected and dry signals are not in phase. A quick google search indicates that this is not a very rare occurrence. I should be able to cure it simply by adding a patch cable that swap the two wires of the output of the EHX, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 Wrong I'm afraid, I wish it were that simple. To fix it you'll either need a new blender pedal (like the Xotic X-Blender or Wounded Paw) that has a phase invert switch, or stick another pedal in the loop just before or after the Bassballs that also inverts the phase. Many simple boost pedals invert the phase, e.g. my Cream Pie, Phat Phuk, and even SFT do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 Ah! pity! Thanks for saving me the time to test it A while ago I put an EHX bassballs AND an EHX micro Q-Tron together in the loop, and I don't remember noticing issues, so maybe the micro QTron also inverts the phase. I liked those two pedals together for a "burpy" RHCP Sir Psycho Sexy kind of sound. We should start a thread to indicate which pedals invert the phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 (edited) The qtron inverts the signal in HP and LP modes so that sorts the phase issue combined with the bassballs when the envelope filter is engaged. A little inverting opamp circuit would sort it out pretty simply and would probably fit inside the pedal enclosure if it bothered you greatly... Edited May 20, 2012 by Bigwan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 aha, that makes sense, as I used it in LP mode. It does bother me because by itself the blended sound is difficult to use. But I might just add a micro QTron again, since I love that pedal anyway. We will see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1337542403' post='1661724'] aha, that makes sense, as I used it in LP mode. It does bother me because by itself the blended sound is difficult to use. But I might just add a micro QTron again, since I love that pedal anyway. We will see [/quote] Note that the qtron bypassed will not invert the signal so without it engaged you will have the same trouble you're having now with your blend... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 20, 2012 Author Share Posted May 20, 2012 [quote name='Bigwan' timestamp='1337543547' post='1661759'] Note that the qtron bypassed will not invert the signal so without it engaged you will have the same trouble you're having now with your blend... [/quote] I know, I used to use both at the same time for a truly burpy sound. That was my "Sir Psycho Sexy" sound in the RHCP tribute band, and I loved seeing people look in wonder "what is that??" during sound I recently went to just Bassballs to make some space... but hey, maybe it was not meant to be! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted May 20, 2012 Share Posted May 20, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1337529494' post='1661446'] We should start a thread to indicate which pedals invert the phase. [/quote] I'm sure I have seen a thread or webpage about that somewhere. Maybe at The Gear Page. A bit of googling might find it for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1337527048' post='1661390'] Wrong I'm afraid, I wish it were that simple. [/quote] I thought that swapping the wires over on one end of a jack lead would invert the phase. I'm pretty sure I learned it at uni? EDIT: Ahhh, but that wouldn't solve the problem when the pedal is off. Surely there are another couple of wires inside the pedal you could flip over? Edited May 21, 2012 by cheddatom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 A lot of LP and HP filters swap the phase, the Meatball circuit does it too (although it's unaffected in BP mode). Bit of a pain in the arse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='uncle psychosis' timestamp='1337549443' post='1661945'] I'm sure I have seen a thread or webpage about that somewhere. Maybe at The Gear Page. A bit of googling might find it for you? [/quote] My bit of googling was unsuccessful. Any ideas anybody? It is a resource I would love to see and if I can find it I shall start one myself. Blending pedals is common enough among bass players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1337585413' post='1662183'] I thought that swapping the wires over on one end of a jack lead would invert the phase. I'm pretty sure I learned it at uni? EDIT: Ahhh, but that wouldn't solve the problem when the pedal is off. Surely there are another couple of wires inside the pedal you could flip over? [/quote] There are two wires to the jack lead - one with varying voltage positive to negative, and one ground that stays constantly at zero. The ground is a common connection linking all the way from your guitar strings to the earth socket in the plug wall. It just would not work if you swapped them, you would probably just get a loud buzzing sound like when you half plug a jack plug in. You need another gain stage instead like a simple transistor buffer that can take the input and produce a voltage swing going in the other direction instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1337854301' post='1666321'] My bit of googling was unsuccessful. Any ideas anybody? It is a resource I would love to see and if I can find it I shall start one myself. Blending pedals is common enough among bass players. [/quote] [url="http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=796444"]http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=796444[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 thank you! yours truly, embarrased Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistermark Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 (edited) mcnach, A great pedal option to blend two signals is the 2 channel mixer from FEA Labs with VARIABLE phase control: [url="http://www.fealabs.com/products/2CH-MIX-0001.html"]http://www.fealabs.c...H-MIX-0001.html[/url] Has some really nice features which include: -summing both singals to mono for single amp use -variable phase knob for making both signals phase coherent -variable gain for each channel -optional boost switch with a variable volume knob for setting the boost -option to boost channel 1, channel 2 or channel 1 AND 2 simultaneously -FET amp selection Can't stress enough how important the VARIABLE phase control is... Sure some combining pedals like the Xotic x-blender have a 180º phase [i]switch, [/i]but this won't guarantee 100% phase coherency. By having the variable phase control of the FEA 2 channel mixer you can turn the knob until you hear both signals coming through 100%. -Mark Edited May 28, 2012 by mistermark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted May 28, 2012 Share Posted May 28, 2012 [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1337527048' post='1661390'] Many simple boost pedals invert the phase, e.g. my Cream Pie, Phat Phuk, and even SFT do. [/quote] i was having a similar problem a while back and it seemed that the cheapest solution (without building an inverting buffer) was to use an EHX LPB-1 to invert the phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DECEMBER Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 On 21/05/2012 at 00:30, cheddatom said: [quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1337527048' post='1661390'] Wrong I'm afraid, I wish it were that simple. [/quote] I thought that swapping the wires over on one end of a jack lead would invert the phase. I'm pretty sure I learned it at uni? EDIT: Ahhh, but that wouldn't solve the problem when the pedal is off. Surely there are another couple of wires inside the pedal you could flip over? Swapping wires inverts polarity, not phase. Phase is whether the sound wave oscillates over-under or under-over the axis (0). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blisters on my fingers Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Phew ....... no need to worry about that any more🙂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 8 hours ago, blisters on my fingers said: Phew ....... no need to worry about that any more🙂 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boodang Posted October 5, 2022 Share Posted October 5, 2022 I use the EHX parallel tri mixer to blend pedals. Three channels and each one has a phase switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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