musophilr Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 He's got talent and good songs. Likes my contributions (on bass, keys and guitar) and production ideas. Wants to gig, has known from the start that while I don't expect to make a living out of it [i]per se[/i] still less to get fame & fortune out of it, I can't afford to treat it as an expensive hobby and it must break even at the least. 1. Tore a strip off me for daring to attempt to understand a song enough to write out a chord chart for it (instead of playing the first thing that comes into my head and getting caught out by an unexpected chord change). 2. Expects me to contribute my own compositions to the act (which I didn't because I started getting the suspicion there was something wrong going on). 3. Finally makes it clear that by "gig" he means unpaid slots at open mic nights. The words [i]time of[/i] and [i]waste[/i] come to mind. This isn't the first instance either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Oh dear. Who is this chap? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1328744437' post='1532193'] Oh dear. Who is this chap? [/quote] 'Tis better that I don't say. Apparently there are many like him. I wish him well on his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 We've been finding that rehearsals have been going a lot smoother since we took the Vagina Monologues approach and liberated certain words. Our diva guitarist is now much improved I am unsure if this technique would work for you, musically, but it might give a much needed morale boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I have experienced some of this nonsense over they years. It has become painfully obvious over the last couple of years when searching the musician wanted sites, that there are an awful lot of dreamers, wannabes and general waste of space tossers. A fair few of them old enough to know better. Thankfully there are some decent ones amongst them but it can be a long tedious process getting to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janmaat Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 yep, I know the feeling - singer songwriter type of guy, who is so ingenious that he just won't understand why chord charts are needed, not only refusing to provide them, but actually being upset if you do it because it shows his inability. When I complained about why it was me having to write somebody else's tunes down, he said "it is not my job!". I wondere if it was mine, I mean, all un-paid business? At least, could be glad you've done it!!! Find a drummer, build it up from the base - makes more sense. Be the band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='janmaat' timestamp='1328777863' post='1532395'] so ingenious that he just won't understand why chord charts are needed, not only refusing to provide them, but actually being upset if you do it because it shows his inability [/quote] Ok, I'm gonna stick my neck out in good faith... what exactly is a chord chart?! I'm entirely self-taught, electively nil-by-theory and play completely by ear, so maybe it's not surprising that the first time I encountered the term was when I joined BC, but to this day I still don't know what it is that I'm missing, how one would use such a thing, or why it'd be a source of such ire to other musicians if I failed to provide one! When I try to employ Google, I get pictures of either guitar chord 'boxes' or just the note positions on pictues of a fretboard, neither of which help much. I'm guessing that I'll never find a use for one given that I haven't needed one in the last 15 years, but I'm still genuinely intetrested if anyone can enlighten me... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Chord chart for [i]Knockin' on heavens door[/i] (simple example): [font=courier new,courier,monospace]4| G | D | A- | A- |[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]4| | | | |[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]| G | D | C | C |[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]| | | | |[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Intro = verse = chorus, repeat [i]ad nauseam[/i][/font][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Edited: I usually use 2 lines so that a chord change within the bar can be shown as eg[/font][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace][font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]| D E- |[/font][/font][/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace] | / / / / |[/font] [font=courier new,courier,monospace]2 beats of each except that on this site it knacks up the spacing. .txt files in notepad or courier new in Word are best for this sort of thing.[/font] Edited February 9, 2012 by musophilr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1328782241' post='1532467'] Ok, I'm gonna stick my neck out in good faith... what exactly is a chord chart?! I'm entirely self-taught, electively nil-by-theory and play completely by ear, so maybe it's not surprising that the first time I encountered the term was when I joined BC, but to this day I still don't know what it is that I'm missing, how one would use such a thing, or why it'd be a source of such ire to other musicians if I failed to provide one! When I try to employ Google, I get pictures of either guitar chord 'boxes' or just the note positions on pictues of a fretboard, neither of which help much. I'm guessing that I'll never find a use for one given that I haven't needed one in the last 15 years, but I'm still genuinely intetrested if anyone can enlighten me... [/quote] Wow!! Good answer there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Actually I think that most musicians, if they have started on a chordal instrument- guitar, piano etc, will have learned a lot of songs from chord charts, but someone starting on bass, with a good ear and no interest in learning any theory could easily not need this information. If you have been doing well for 15 years pal you obviously have a good ear and may not need any other help to learn songs etc. Good on you Pal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1328784874' post='1532527'] Chord chart for [i]Knockin' on heavens door[/i] (simple example): [font=courier new, courier, monospace]4| G | D | A- | A- |[/font] [font=courier new, courier, monospace]4| G | D | C | C |[/font] [font=courier new, courier, monospace][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Intro = verse = chorus, repeat [i]ad nauseam[/i][/font][/font] [/quote] Aaah, ok.. thanks! I see what you're getting at, now... wish I'd asked sooner... [Un]fortunately I also see why that'd be of limited use to me; I have no idea what the notes I'm playing at any given point are! My set lists have the first note written down on them in a code that works for me e.g. "1-4" which would be 4th fret on the E string ("0-4" would be the same on the B of a 5er if you were wondering..), and the rest of the song is in my head once I've come in on the right note Genuine thanks for the example, though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgraham Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 You're better off without him. There's 'considerate' levels of tolerance, 'gracious' levels of tolerance, and then there's 'please-flagellate-me' levels of tolerance. I am often in the latter camp and am learning to reel it back to the 'gracious' levels of tolerance, particularly when dealing with primadonnas above. Which reminds me, there's been an update on my related thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 We have disagreed and parted company, but have attempted to do so on gracious terms. I wish him well with what he wants to do, but I can't be part of it. I'm still pissed off that I put effort into progressing the project and it came to nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
originalfunkbrother Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1328785408' post='1532535'] Actually I think that most musicians, if they have started on a chordal instrument- guitar, piano etc, will have learned a lot of songs from chord charts, but someone starting on bass, with a good ear and no interest in learning any theory could easily not need this information. If you have been doing well for 15 years pal you obviously have a good ear and may not need any other help to learn songs etc. Good on you Pal. [/quote] +2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krysbass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1328782241' post='1532467'] Ok, I'm gonna stick my neck out in good faith... what exactly is a chord chart?! I'm entirely self-taught, electively nil-by-theory and play completely by ear, so maybe it's not surprising that the first time I encountered the term was when I joined BC, but to this day I still don't know what it is that I'm missing, how one would use such a thing, or why it'd be a source of such ire to other musicians if I failed to provide one! When I try to employ Google, I get pictures of either guitar chord 'boxes' or just the note positions on pictues of a fretboard, neither of which help much. I'm guessing that I'll never find a use for one given that I haven't needed one in the last 15 years, but I'm still genuinely intetrested if anyone can enlighten me... [/quote] [size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Calibri"]For me that question just hit the nail on the head.[/font][/color][/size] [size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Calibri"]I’ll add to it by saying I’ve played bass since 1982 and in 30 years not only have I never used or needed a chord chart, but neither have I needed tab, nor to resurrect my long-since-forgotten ability to read notation.[/font][/color][/size] [size="3"][color="#000000"][font="Calibri"]I play by ear and have never done it any other way - I find it easy to learn new songs. Even when I briefly played in an originals band I just made up bass-lines on the fly (I never write anything down).[/font][/color][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 My drummer said last night 'Brian can play any song' I really like him! What he means is I can play it because I can read chord charts etc. Can't play a thing by ear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1328822286' post='1533383'] My drummer said last night 'Brian can play any song' I really like him! What he means is I can play it because I can read chord charts etc. Can't play a thing by ear [/quote] Funny innit. I'm the opposite. Give me a chord chart and I will become the most uncreative player you can imagine. Let me learn a song by ear and all sorts of ideas pop into my head and a nice bassline emerges, usually Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='thumperbob 2002' timestamp='1328785408' post='1532535'] ...if they have started on a chordal instrument - guitar, piano etc, will have learned a lot of songs from chord charts, but someone starting on bass, with a good ear and no interest in learning any theory could easily not need this information. [/quote] I first used chord charts for guitar, then dots for trumpet and dots for piano and classical guitar. But I don't use anything at all for bass. If I have to learn anything I do it by ear. I'm usually having too much fun to bother with bits of paper. I always lose them anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime_BASS Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1328822772' post='1533396'] Funny innit. I'm the opposite. Give me a chord chart and I will become the most uncreative player you can imagine. Let me learn a song by ear and all sorts of ideas pop into my head and a nice bassline emerges, usually [/quote] Opposite again, I find chord chart extremely helpful and time saving, only when I see a chart I also see every single note I can play except the notes on the chart. [quote name='janmaat' timestamp='1328777863' post='1532395'] Find a drummer, build it up from the base - makes more sense. Be the band. [/quote] This definitly When my current originals goes tits up (inevitable due to 1/2 of us going uni) I'll be staying in contact with the drummer to build on a new act. He is the most down to earth guy I've ever met and actually listens to what I have to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1328823858' post='1533428'] Opposite again, I find chord chart extremely helpful and time saving, only when I see a chart I also see every single note I can play except the notes on the chart. [/quote] That's the thing, and I suppose it depends on the music and the musical environment, but my ears usually tell me what I need to know, then it's down to my ears/creativity/fingers connections as to whether I can improvise a suitable and interesting line quickly enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1328823858' post='1533428'] Opposite again, I find chord chart extremely helpful and time saving, only when I see a chart I also see every single note I can play except the notes on the chart. [/quote] It certainly is a "funny old game" - I've never really had any formal musical knowledge/understanding, but I have a great "ear for music" ! I've always played Bass by ear and have always been able to "feel" my way through a song, when I occasionally go to a jam session with a guitarist mate of mine he always makes a point of saying how I "connected" better with the other musos there. I never play with charts/tab/notation whilst gigging - but 3 of my bandmates do? - neither the singer or myself have any physical notes to refer to - perhaps it's ignorance on my part? the songs are in my head - but when asked to shift a song "up one fret" makes no odds to me but the others with their notation couldn't cope/seriously struggle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Thor' timestamp='1328827876' post='1533534'] when asked to shift a song "up one fret" makes no odds to me but the others with their notation couldn't cope [/quote] I find exactly the same. I used to play with an acoustic singer/songwriter who would capo songs according to where her voice was strongest that particular day, so it became very handy that I really didn't care where I was playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1328822772' post='1533396'] Funny innit. I'm the opposite. Give me a chord chart and I will become the most uncreative player you can imagine. Let me learn a song by ear and all sorts of ideas pop into my head and a nice bassline emerges, usually [/quote] Yes, exactly the same here. And, I can't learn songs with chord charts, always need them whereas by ear its in first time round usually. Bit like driving somewhere and being driven. BUT, depending on the music, this doesn't always work best. We do a dinner jazz set, I applied the ear method and was getting nowhere fast. It needed walking bass lines mostly and to do those properly you need to know what the chords are so you don't clash with the others with all the added notes and altereds. I pinched them from the pianist and it sped the process no end. Edited February 9, 2012 by 4 Strings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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