rehearsal rooms

[john_the_bass]

in my never ending quest to not have a proper job, i have been seriously considering the option of opening in a rehearsal studio, having spent some time examing the demand in my local area (lots) vs the actual available locations for rehearsing to take place (none).

Gear wise, i would intend to equip each room with a small(ish) PA, drum kit (shells and stands), 2 guitar amps - the usual sort of thing, but am quite interested in your feedback with regard to what quality of kit should go in

the place i rehearse at regularly uses ashdown EB180s and Mag 210 cabs - i wouldn't gig one, but they're great for practice. there's another place round the corner that has a selection of soldano, fender and mesa valve amps and ashdown abm and ampeg bass stuff - which sounds quite pricey to fit out a room, but his rates are around 17 quid an hour

any suggestions? What would you like to see?

[NJW]

People who care about how they sound at rehearsals will bring their own stuff. Cymbals, snare, heads, and sometimes cabs. People who don't care how they sound, will be happy with a Peavey 4x10 and one of their cheap heads.

I would LOVE to see nice gear in my local practise rooms, but bands usually = idiots... for every 1 gigging band, there are 15 muck about bands who will use your practise room and not think twice about how they treat your gear. This includes, but is not limited to, jumping onto drum kits, jumping onto amplifiers, turning amplifiers up much louder than they need to be, not knowing how to work a PA. Basically, for people like this, it's best not to give them anything they can blow up. Peavey 4x10 and amp, Marshall MG amps and cheapo 4x12's for guitars. (I HATE HATE HATE marshall MG amps... but like I said, people will bring their own).

[Cantdosleepy]

I've used a number of practice rooms, and the gear varies enormously.

Ampeg B5R + 4x10
Peavey small 1x15 (not a TNT)
Marshall ageing Tube head + 6x10 cab
Ashdown ABM 1x15 + 1x15 cab
Ancient Peavey + mystery cab.

To be honest, they were all fine except the peavey combo, which was just not powerful enough to get the job done.

You want something Loud, S[Thora Hird]y and Reliable above all things.

The places I go they won't let me bring my own head and plug it into their cabs - annoying.

[Cantdosleepy]

Woah! I got censored! how weird!

s[Thora Hird]y pretty obviously ought to read st u rdy.

[john_the_bass]

i know that - i've seen it all to often, but i think it's about educating bands and, at the end of the day, those who want to use premium kit will pay premium prices. There are 3 examples locally of how not to do it and 2 examples of exactly how to do it and maintain a good standard of kit, service and earn respect from the bands who go and rehearse there

from my point of view, it does my head in to drag my rig out and into a rehearsal room for 2 hours a week - yeah i care about what i (we) sound like, but a good musician (if i can call myself that!!) should be able to get a useable sound out of anything. I would pretty much expect any drummer to bring his own cymbals and snare, but i think you can make provision for those who don't

[Cantdosleepy]

Also, +1 to NJW.

I don't care about how I sound at the moment, I'm just trying to play in time, so I'd much prefer a place that's £7 an hour with a Peavey 4x10 than £50 with a PJB rig.

You have to decide which market you're aiming for. Cheap'n'cheerful? Pro?

Common sense tip: Make sure everything's at the same quality level. No point in having a gorgeous bass amp in a room with a janky drum kit/ cheap guitar amps. The low-end fella may love you, but his band won't be back.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='Cantdosleepy' post='16905' date='Jun 13 2007, 02:35 PM']Also, +1 to NJW.

I don't care about how I sound at the moment, I'm just trying to play in time, so I'd much prefer a place that's £7 an hour with a Peavey 4x10 than £50 with a PJB rig.

You have to decide which market you're aiming for. Cheap'n'cheerful? Pro?

Common sense tip: Make sure everything's at the same quality level. No point in having a gorgeous bass amp in a room with a janky drum kit/ cheap guitar amps. The low-end fella may love you, but his band won't be back.[/quote]

+1 on that
i'm fortunate in that i play guitar and know my way around guitar kit better than i do bass gear. i've also got the support of various drummers who can point me in the directiong of good stuff and steer me well clear of pap

[ngombe]

one of the rehearsal outfits near me (Birmingham) offer the standard midrange combos by default, but they also have a few premium rigs if you want to fork out a few extra quid. That seems like a good compromise to me, if people pay the premium they'll probably know how not to break an amp.

They also provide amp / cab / pa rentals to lots of the big venues so it's a bit easier for them to have a selection.

maybe you could cut a deal with a local music retailer and get some ex demo stuff on loan in exchange for some advertising / promotion. It's a far better way to audition an amp than sitting in a shop full of noisy kids all throwing down their latest guitar licks.

just a suggestion - no idea if it's practical

Joe

[acidbass]

Equip the room with the best quality gear that you can afford - that way, you'll be the best practice room around and no one will even think about starting their own to compete with you. If they do, you have the best equipment!

I'd also make all the bands who want to practice there sign a contract saying that if they break any equipment, they'll pay for it. You are, after all, providing them with a service, and so being business-like in your actions will not hurt.

[NJW]

[quote name='acidbass' post='16960' date='Jun 13 2007, 03:34 PM']I'd also make all the bands who want to practice there sign a contract saying that if they break any equipment, they'll pay for it. You are, after all, providing them with a service, and so being business-like in your actions will not hurt.[/quote]

I wouldn't say this is a practical solution. Equipment can be worn out by misuse internally. If I, as a customer, went in and played sensibly through the studio's bass amp, and have it fail in the period I am there (even though its the result of someone else's misuse) there is absolutely NO way i am going to pay for it! I'll pay to replace my own equipment, and if I was to borrow something and accidentally drop it in the sea, I would pay for it. I would definitly not shell out for the full cost of a rehearsal rooms broken amp. Thats what insurance is for!

Edited June 13, 2007 by NJW

[lukeward2004]

Ive used several rehearsal rooms in berkshire that have varying quality of gear.

I would say that you would need a fairly decent PA, with some form of monitoring - the amount of times Ive been in a rehearsal studio and not been able to hear my own vocal is shocking.

Its difficult as you need kit that will be good enough for practise, something tough and reliable that can take a beating from the usual much around acts, and yet needs to be decent enough to warrant the cost of the room.

For me, I just take my BassPOD and run straight into the PA now, as I cant be lugging my amps/cabs to rehearsals every night!

[wulf]

What is parking like round your way? It can be anything from difficult to impossible round London, which gives a big plus to rehearsal venues that can supply functional equipment. However, unless you are looking at one of the functions of the venue to be demoing gear for sale, cheap, solid and reliable is probably better than splashing out on really expensive gear. Perhaps test the waters by having a small amount of fancier gear available at an increased hire charge?

Also, don't forget to have some spares. Even well looked after gear can go wrong and being locked up with a room full of monkeys night after night is likely to increase the rate of failure! I've turned up to a rehearsal room and found various bits of equipment to be dead; if the studio hadn't been able to swap it round, that could have blown a rehearsal night (and unhappy punters aren't likely to come back if they can find somewhere else).

Final thought - how about also providing some storage space. When I used to rehearse up in Central London, we hired a PA along with bass and guitar amps; the drummer used to keep his kit in a locker at the studio, where he used it with several bands and could also easily pick it up for gigs round the area. It might look like a waste of space but, suitably positioned, could help with soundproofing and may also attract back regular customers and the kind of people who are interested in playing through their own gear and treating other people's stuff with respect.

Wulf

[john_the_bass]

cheers for all the responses. my plan would be to have anything up to 7 or 8 rooms, built in an ex industrial type unit, probably put together with filled cavity partition walls, soundproofing rubber membrance, plasterboard and soundproofing plasterboard (or something like that - that bit needs to be worked out), preferably somewhere that had previously made use of a service yard which could be used for car parking.

my past experience and probably my benchmark points me to one place that has a couple of regular rooms with fairly ordinary (good, reliable) kit, and a "Pro" room, which they charge extra for, but has better quality equipment and a slightly bigger room. They also have plenty of spare kit to go around in the instance that something goes wrong and they can replace it. they also have a range of different snares and cymbals that they provide for free (unheard of anywhere else i've ever been) that i'm not sure i'd be up for offering.

i think it could work and i think you could see quite a high turn over if marketed properly, but i think good gear is a selling point that could mark you out from other facilities. The storage idea is definitely a good one and yeah - would absolutely guarantee repeat business. i think a business plan might be in order!!

[gafbass02]

Knowing Leicester as i do id say your on to a winner!, especially if you can offer storage, and /or resi rooms with provision for member of multiple bands to pitch in i.e im in three bands can i use one room for three bands kinda thing. To illustrate the fact Doublecross used to drive to Birmingham everyweek to rehearse at madhouse rather than stay in Leicester, RPM is good as you know but does peak quite early in terms of quality for more experienced bands, and Quad is excellent but expensive and in my experience after spending some long hours there doing session work it can have reliability issues in more ways than one!, ive wanted to open a rehearsal room, cum band hang out, social epicentre in Leicester for years, go for it and reclaim leicester music scene while your at it!, (you know what i mean!)

[NJW]

I've heard leicester has been struggling recently? Any good venues around other than the Charlotte? (Which I'm told is very unpopular with local band types). I've only played at t't Charlotte, and it was incredibly quiet, compared to the night before in Northampton and the night after in Norwich.

[stingrayfan]

You want half decent stuff but not too good - like other people say it'll get trashed. Go for stuff that feels heavy duty and is simple to use. Also maybe worth befriending a local guitar store and offer to take B-stock and returns off their hands for discount.

[alexclaber]

If I were you I'd buy used old Peavey heads (quite low power ones too) and I'd build a whole load of Bill Fitzmaurice Omni 10 cabs with Eminence Beta 10 woofers. Peaveys just run and run, and matching very low powered heads (relatively - I mean definitely under 300W) with modern high power speakers and sensitive cabs means you're unlikely to suffer frequent damage, if at all.

By building your own cabs you can save a ton of money, and I suspect also develop a sideline in building and selling these to impressed bassists that have rehearsed at the studio. You could do the same with the PA system too.

Alex

[ngombe]

As a fairly regular punter at places like this I'd list my priorities as..

1 - reliability. If the kit is always out of order or the place is often shut unexpectedly I'll stop going very quickly.
2 - location - parking for those that drive, not too far out of town for those that don't. Remote industrial estates can be hard to get to on sundays with public transport.
3 - availability - most amateurs will need late evenings and weekends, 9pm during the week is quite usual round my way.
4 - price - I usually pay £7 - 8 ph peak times and as little as £4 ph for off-peak hours (usually if you book a few hours at a time)
4 - quality gear - Fancy kit is quite low down my list, if I'm rehearsing I'm not to worried what I'm playing through as long as it works.
5 - nice munchies and reasonably priced coffee.

I'm sure you could get quite a bit of market research from the good people of BC to help with the business plan

[bassbloke]

I'd stick Peavey 4 x 12s and 8 x 10s in every room with much less powerful heads. The sheer surface area of speakers will fill the rooms and satisfy the most idiotic bands.

I'd also make each band pay a rehearsal upfront and keept he money in the kittie. If they don't turn up one week and haven't given notice or damage anything, you at least have some money.

If the band does damage equipment through negligence or stupidity, you always have the option of the small claims court for recouping your losses.

[john_the_bass]

[quote name='gafbass02' post='17675' date='Jun 14 2007, 04:26 PM']Knowing Leicester as i do id say your on to a winner!, especially if you can offer storage, and /or resi rooms with provision for member of multiple bands to pitch in i.e im in three bands can i use one room for three bands kinda thing. To illustrate the fact Doublecross used to drive to Birmingham everyweek to rehearse at madhouse rather than stay in Leicester, RPM is good as you know but does peak quite early in terms of quality for more experienced bands, and Quad is excellent but expensive and in my experience after spending some long hours there doing session work it can have reliability issues in more ways than one!, ive wanted to open a rehearsal room, cum band hang out, social epicentre in Leicester for years, go for it and reclaim leicester music scene while your at it!, (you know what i mean!)[/quote]

Gaf - yeah, RPM is great and Pete is a top bloke so he's pretty much guaranteed my business (plus I play in a band with him!!!). His kit is well maintainted, reasonably good quality (could be better BUT for his price point, you couldn't beat it) and his rooms are clean and well maintained. Plus he's got a supply of spare gear if something goes wrong. I tried another place on wednesday, brand new gear - nice open rooms, but the gear was a bit crap and the rooms sounded awful. We're off to quad to have a bash on tuesday, which is pricey but I am interested to see what it's like. I won't mention the other two sh*tholes that somehow continue to exist. I think there is a maket for a facility in loughborough, especially as one of the nearest places (Hathern) is up for sale - it leaves a hole in an otherwise over subscribed and under supported market.
Incidentally, I was in birmingham yesterday and heard a few people talking about madhouse and it sounds quite good!


[quote name='NJW' post='17677' date='Jun 14 2007, 04:29 PM']I've heard leicester has been struggling recently? Any good venues around other than the Charlotte? (Which I'm told is very unpopular with local band types). I've only played at t't Charlotte, and it was incredibly quiet, compared to the night before in Northampton and the night after in Norwich.[/quote]

the charlotte is alright - it's still probably the place most bands on national tours stop off on the toilet cicruit. i don't mind playing there at all and we get a fair reaction, although I'm trying to keep away from local band nights and trying to stick to getting support slots for the touring acts. Sumo is coming up quite quickly as a venue and getting it's fair share of NME bands which is helping the local scene (well "helping" depends on you POV!), plus the SHed is still going. a few new venues pop up now and again, but overall the scene couldn't be better. I have detected a certain audience apathy in the short time i've been there, that i hadn't noticed anywhere else.

[NJW]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='18051' date='Jun 15 2007, 09:51 AM']the charlotte is alright - it's still probably the place most bands on national tours stop off on the toilet cicruit. i don't mind playing there at all and we get a fair reaction, although I'm trying to keep away from local band nights and trying to stick to getting support slots for the touring acts. Sumo is coming up quite quickly as a venue and getting it's fair share of NME bands which is helping the local scene (well "helping" depends on you POV!), plus the SHed is still going. a few new venues pop up now and again, but overall the scene couldn't be better. I have detected a certain audience apathy in the short time i've been there, that i hadn't noticed anywhere else.[/quote]

toilet circuit is an apt name for the Charlotte. Everytime i've stopped off there it smelled distinctly like a lavatory. We played at a weird wee place called Firebug aswell. Beautiful little room upstairs, was quite good fun and relatively busy.

[john_the_bass]

when did you play at firebug? It appears to be the favourite place amongst the inner circle of the leicester music scene. We've played there a few times, but it's difficult for us to get a gig there as we don't seem to mix with everybody else.

Gaf will know what i'm about!!

[slaphappygarry]

I work in a practice room/studio.

A wee marsal stack, a wee fender stack and a B series ampeg stack keep everyone happy.

Drum kit wise pearl exports are ok and very easy to get spares for.

Pa - JBL and Soundcraft spirit powered desks. They NEVER fail.

Mics - Bite the bullet and get 58's anything else will fall apart in no time. They may be 3 times the price but last 5 times as long.

G

[velvetkevorkian]

Cab wise, I wouldn't get anything bigger than 4x10s for bass and 4x12s for guitar. As others have said, Peavey is built like a tank and sounds pretty good for the price so I'd probably go with them for bass heads and cheapish Marshalls for guitar. If you include storage you're onto a winner I reckon, that really sets the studio I use apart from most of the rest and gurantees them repeat business.

[NJW]

[quote name='john_the_bass' post='18089' date='Jun 15 2007, 10:38 AM']when did you play at firebug? It appears to be the favourite place amongst the inner circle of the leicester music scene. We've played there a few times, but it's difficult for us to get a gig there as we don't seem to mix with everybody else.

Gaf will know what i'm about!![/quote]

It was back at the start of april 2006 I believe. A friend of mine who used to be in a leicester band called Team sorted it out for us. It was pretty cosy, quite busy, and we got dinner and breakfast the next morning on top of our fee... couldnt complain!

All the points in this thread are valid... I would say a big plus one again to Peavey stuff, despite the fact I wouldnt use it myself. It seems a universal standard in practise rooms and people know where they stand with them.