Interesting weekend ahead....

[nottswarwick]

Well, 2 gigs this weekend - a wedding, and the a bar gig in a big venue with tricky acoustics bass-wise.

I have borrowed back my old Stingray 4, with the option to buy it back if I want to. I shall be using this, and my MIM P bass. The aim is to see which type of sound sits in the mix best. I have been playing them both this afternoon for an hour or so through my studio monitors, and obviously the sounds are very different. They also feel different in terms of the right hand, but the neck feels are very similar.

I played the solo, and then along to some ABBA (daughter loves Mama Mia, and she was around so it kept her happy while is was playing - plus I LOVE the bass lines). So far I has surprising thoughts - the P Bass was marginally more comfortable, and seemed to sit better in the mix when playing along. Stingray slightly less comfortable (maybe because I have been on P basses recently, although I played Stingrays for years before), and stood out from the mix a little.

INTERESTING, and I shall report back following the gigs.

Also, final 2 gigs in my trial month with the BF Compact. Still using my ABM500 head with it. So far so good. Always have PA support, but the Sunday venue is tricky in terms of stage sound bass-audibility wise, so we shall see.

Anyway, lets see what happens.

If I prefer the P bass, I shall be looking for a USA Standard, or other make (Lakky I suppose) to make my main bass.....but there is always a Jazz Bass to try too....lol it never ends.

If anyone is in Nottingham on Sunday night I am at the Southbank Bar on Trent bridge from 9 ish, so come and have a listen and see how it all sounds to you.

Chris

[nottswarwick]

Ok so last night was a medium ish room not huge. Rig shoved in corner, not ideal.

Bass wise I kept coming back to my MIM p bass, preferring it to the loan stingray. We will see if the same occurs tonight...

Rig wise - dunno, not sure really. I struggled to hear myself a bit at times and tonight I'm gonna take a bit more time on my settings. No going to use the Abm pre shape scoop, try for flat with a bit of EQ if necessary.

Need to try a lm3 aswell......

I could certainly see the addition of a midget cab helping get the bass to ear level....

[Lozz196]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1339411' date='Aug 14 2011, 10:50 AM']I could certainly see the addition of a midget cab helping get the bass to ear level....[/quote]

That`s what I`ve just done - makes it much easier to hear, and the Midget adds a bit of aggression in to the sound too.

[Linus27]

I'm in a similar boat to you. My band is an acoustic setup which plays a mix of Motown, folk, 60's, soul, jazz type of music. I have a Jazz, Stingray and a Precision strung with flats and I really can't decide what to play and what works best. Each bass has its plus and minus points. The Stingray cuts through really nice and works perfect for the more articulate bass lines but does sound quite clanky and aggresive. The Jazz is punchy but not as cutting and seems to sit more in the mix, so not really standing out. The precision with flats is warm and smooth and sounds great with some of the Motown sounding tracks but also sounds dull on and lifeless on the more high played articulate bass lines.

Hope you get your choice sorted out. What i do know is my MarkBass CMD121H combo works a treat

[nottswarwick]

Well, gig 2 done. Pa supported again, big stage area, bass can get lost.

Used the stingray. Took some time to EQ the head. Started off without the pre shape but it sounded flat. Pre shape scoop engaged, cut the lows, boost mids and highs (all on amp), sounding good. EQ on bass - treble centre, slight mid and bass boost but only a touch. After all that it sounded great.

So as it stands, the sr4 comes back home ( I buy it back), the compact stays, and I use my abm500. The drive is handy too- use it on half the songs. really organic sounds, warm and tubey and pillowy but also cutting.

I can see a BD midget at some point soon.

Good stuff

[Prime_BASS]

Why are you using the scoop, then boosting the mids anyway? this maybe one of your issues with the head and the cab.
This shape is boosting the lows and highs and cutting the mids, too which you cut the lows and boost mids and highs. Then you further over EQ by boosting kids and lows on the bass.
So after all that knob twisting you've probably ended up with a sharp treble boost.
Not knowing what sound you are after it's difficult to say what you should be doing.
Ive see. You say the bass can be lost a lot, and this sharp treble boost is probably down to the 4khz cut off on the Compact.

Stop turning all the knobs!!! Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and the compact is one of those cabs that doesn't need all that mid cut then boost and more bass, last thing the cab needs is more bass!

I can only advise on what I do, go into it flat, use the treble on the bass for more "cut", use the bass on the bass to lose boom if necerssary, and on a ray you don't need to mess with the mids as they are quiet prominent, you only have to use the mids if you feel are getting "lost" . Stay away from the shape button, it'll be killing the bass sound.
If you are on a stage where te Rig is just for monitoring you need to focus on having good mids and low mids so you can hear yourself on stage, and try tilting it back.

If you are still struggling email alex. At Barefaced

[nottswarwick]

I know what you are saying, but it just sounds better that way. Believe me, I only use EQ when necessary and sparingly (I am also a competent sound engineer). My intention was to run without the pre shape, but for some reason it does not work for me.

It's a bit like the markbass vpf filter.

It certainly was not a sharp treble sound though, but I can see how you might think it is. None of the knobs were moved more that to five to or five past, so it was nothing excessive, honest.

Edited August 15, 2011 by nottswarwick

[nottswarwick]

The Abm is nothin like the markbass heads in terms of sound or EQ. Having owned several mb products it has just taken me a while to get used to how the Abm works.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1340299' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:27 AM']I know what you are saying, but it just sounds better that way. Believe me, I only use EQ when necessary and sparingly (I am also a competent sound engineer). My intention was to run without the pre shape, but for some reason it does not work for me.

It's a bit like the markbass vpf filter.

It certainly was not a sharp treble sound though, but I can see how you might think it is. None of the knobs were moved more that to five to or five past, so it was nothing excessive, honest.[/quote]

It just seems like a lot of work for not much gain.....

If you like it by all means I won't stop you. No doubt it wasn't "sharp" as the compact isn't too capable of it. Personally I don't rate the ashdown line, and I've read of quiet a few people having to use the shape filter all the time. I can only imagine in my head it's a very wooly sound with not a lot of definition, and I stand by the point of not having this filter on as a similar if not the same sound can be managed with the standard EQ knobs.
A lot of places I've been to insist on DI'ing straight from the bass,(I'm not fussed I like the sound of my basses but if I insist I will have te head DI'd) so no matter what you do on the head it won't make any difference out front. Obviously you know this though.

I go about my sound a totally different way, as I just want to hear what the bass sounds like without the head or cab adding anything(or taking away) thats all ready there, and will use the bass to EQ to the room. I'd only mess with the amp EQ if I was going straight to desk and I was struggling to hear myself on stage. That can also be helped by moving around the stage (incase of null spots) and tilting the cab up with a roll of gafa.

I'm in Notts so if I'm ever free or one of your gigs I'll pop along, I don't mean to seem condescending I just find it had to believe that the cab needs that much EQ (or more knob twiddling I should say, the louder it goes the less the small increments make any difference I find on some heads)

[nottswarwick]

You could be right. I should explain further. I have used Stingrays and Markbass rigs for years. Last year I got a job as drummer in my current band, and thus only needed a bass rig for occasional sep work. Hence I sold my Stinrgrays and rig, and got some cheaper stuff (mim, Ashdown etc).

However, now a change has resulted in me moving on to bass full time, and I am reassembling a rig to suit my needs.

The Ashdown and MArkbass heads are totally different animals. I have owned LM2, LM3, TA501 and F1 heads, and found them to be very clean yet full sounding. I would not describe them as "hifi" but they are in comparison to the Ashdown, which is a very pillowy and warm sound.

I used to use the VPF on the MB heads at around 11 o'clock on the dial. I would then usually leave everything else flat, a possibly cut the bass a little to suit the room. Again, as with the ABM, any eq tweaks were minimal. I also used a BDDI on 50/50 blend, as I need some drive in my sound for the rockier / punkier numbers. The abm does this well.

Maybe I am missing a tweeter....either way, I will rig it all up later on in my studio. Going to email Alex now anyway, maybe to investigate a midget, or a swap for a S12T....

[Musicman20]

I think if you are after more bite, the ABM with Compact will only give you so much.

[nottswarwick]

Yep, you are right.

So, I am pleased to announce, BF Super12 T INCOMING.

Alex, is a legend. Pretty much spot on in the first place as he suspected a S12T was what I needed. But I could not afford it (still cannot really), so he is taking the compact back and I am upgrading to a S12T.

I think that will do the job perfectly. Volume (575W in to the 4 ohms), and tweeter to give me the bite and to replicate what the PA is doing too.

Top man, should be ready next week.

Happy days.

Chris

[51m0n]

The SuperTwelve T is going to blow you away.

Way better than a Compact IMO, one of the best cabs I've ever heard.

[nottswarwick]

splendid.

[Prime_BASS]

Seems to me you like either a mid cut sound(some would say modern or "full") or a "feel" more less "hear"
But cutting the kids to me mead you are losing out on a lot of what a good bass sound is about (IMO of course) grindy esque low mids, burpy higher mids. You lose so much definition when mid cutting, I can see why some people do it (inparticulary sound engineers, "multi-musicians" I jest of course ) however with the Barefaced cabs you lose quiet a bit of the magic of what these cabs can do. Especially the tweeted ones. The low, mids and highs keep up with each other practically to it's max output so bassists should use this to be heard! Not just felt!

I dont want to get on at you because "Each to his own" and all that.
But a solid "flat" sound is much better than low end mush.

I'm not going to keep trying to lecture you as you know what you are doing.

[nottswarwick]

I have obviously described it wrong. Growly is exactly the sound I get. The Abm pre shape is a scoop, but with a little judicious EQ it cuts and snarls and bites. I would leave the shape off but it sounds lifeless and sterile without it.'you would thing that you could simply use the EQ without the shape preset to achieve the same thing, but for some reason with the Abm you can't.

The s12t is superb as you know, and I am sure will work for me.

All input gratefully received, thanks.

I will post back with updates.

Edit - I hate low end mush. Mids are where it is at live. I am returning to stingrays for clarity, fullness and the ability to be heard and felt.

Edited August 15, 2011 by nottswarwick

[Toasted]

I'm not in the habit of saying this but Prime_BASS you talk a lot of sense.

[nottswarwick]

I have re read my posts on this topic. I have not made much sense lol.

In essence the Abm is a different beast to markbass. I am surprised by how much, but it is. Primebass, have you compared the two at all? I know this comes over argumentatively but it's not meant to.

It is very lifeless and sterile if the pre shape is not engaged, and to my ears and through the compact canny be livened up unless this is engaged. One this is done the low needs taming and the MUDs boosting slightly. I know it makes no sense but there you go. And then slight EQ touches on the bass in the gig to suit.

This could change when the s12t arrives.

Edited August 15, 2011 by nottswarwick

[nottswarwick]

It's quite poss that the Abm is not that special or versatile but I have to work with it for now at least...

[Musicman20]

The ABM wont be at all like the MB amps. It wont have the punch or the clarity.

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Musicman20' post='1341584' date='Aug 16 2011, 10:22 AM']The ABM wont be at all like the MB amps. It wont have the punch or the clarity.[/quote]

V true.

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1341351' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:45 PM']It's quite poss that the Abm is not that special or versatile but I have to work with it for now at least...[/quote]

I've only heard the ABM heads through ashdowns own gear and while it's not amazing I only thought the bass would need tweaking and maybe add some decent compression for a better " full " sound.
Obviously without having one to hand I can't see what you mean, but I do understand, at a time I had a SVT3-pro, glorious sound but I felt I was always engaging the Deep and Bright switch for a generally more satisfying sound. Also the filter knobs can touch frequencies that the normal EQ knobs can't.

The S12T isn't a largly different to a compact. It does go a smidge lower, and considerably louder! An obviously the tweeter opens up a whole lot of treble compared to the Compact. Its hard to describe te exact differences without being subjective, however you could say that the Super12 has a "tighter" more "punchy" mid range, not that the compacts mids arnt nice an articulate, it's hard to put my finger on but if you've been witness to the amazing Midget it's easyier to understand.

[nottswarwick]

Thanks. Ive heard a s12t when I was doing Pa for a band and it was great, a good strong full range tone.

I'm gonna see how the ashdown sounds through it. It might be just the ticket but we will see. If not i will go back to an lm3 plus a drive pedal

[4000]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1340294' date='Aug 15 2011, 08:09 AM']Why are you using the scoop, then boosting the mids anyway? this maybe one of your issues with the head and the cab.
This shape is boosting the lows and highs and cutting the mids, too which you cut the lows and boost mids and highs. Then you further over EQ by boosting kids and lows on the bass.
So after all that knob twisting you've probably ended up with a sharp treble boost.
Not knowing what sound you are after it's difficult to say what you should be doing.
Ive see. You say the bass can be lost a lot, and this sharp treble boost is probably down to the 4khz cut off on the Compact.

Stop turning all the knobs!!! Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and the compact is one of those cabs that doesn't need all that mid cut then boost and more bass, last thing the cab needs is more bass!

I can only advise on what I do, go into it flat, use the treble on the bass for more "cut", use the bass on the bass to lose boom if necerssary, and on a ray you don't need to mess with the mids as they are quiet prominent, you only have to use the mids if you feel are getting "lost" . Stay away from the shape button, it'll be killing the bass sound.
If you are on a stage where te Rig is just for monitoring you need to focus on having good mids and low mids so you can hear yourself on stage, and try tilting it back.

If you are still struggling email alex. At Barefaced[/quote]

I have the same rig, although I use Rickenbackers, and I never use the amp flat (i.e. without pre-shape). For me, the pre-shape is the sound, same as Trace. I also eq heavily (although I cut the bass and boost low mids) and I like my sound a great deal. It all depends on the player and the sound they want to hear, combined with the context they're playing in. 10 different guys through the same rig may need 10 different approaches depending on what they're putting into it in the first place and what they're trying to get out of it.

[4000]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' post='1340489' date='Aug 15 2011, 11:25 AM']It just seems like a lot of work for not much gain.....

If you like it by all means I won't stop you. No doubt it wasn't "sharp" as the compact isn't too capable of it. Personally I don't rate the ashdown line, and I've read of quiet a few people having to use the shape filter all the time. I can only imagine in my head it's a very wooly sound with not a lot of definition, and I stand by the point of not having this filter on as a similar if not the same sound can be managed with the standard EQ knobs.
A lot of places I've been to insist on DI'ing straight from the bass,(I'm not fussed I like the sound of my basses but if I insist I will have te head DI'd) so no matter what you do on the head it won't make any difference out front. Obviously you know this though.

I go about my sound a totally different way, as I just want to hear what the bass sounds like without the head or cab adding anything(or taking away) thats all ready there, and will use the bass to EQ to the room. I'd only mess with the amp EQ if I was going straight to desk and I was struggling to hear myself on stage. That can also be helped by moving around the stage (incase of null spots) and tilting the cab up with a roll of gafa.[/quote]

If you saw my settings you'd probably faint. I've had this discussion before and I go about my sound the opposite of how you do; as many of my favourite-sounding bassists take a route more similar to mine it's not something I'd be worried about.

I like to have my bass sounding a certain way onstage, otherwise I don't play well as I don't like the sound being produced. To just have "a" sound onstage is my worst nightmare. "My" sound is very important to me.