cureswhatailsye Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) Hi guys, I'm currently running an Eden WTX500 through a pair of Aguilar GS112s and I'm getting a bit fed up because the rig is so quiet. I used to have a big old Ashdown MAG210 combo and it was so much louder than this whole rig. It's getting to the point where the head is limiting at about 1 o'clock on the output. I can't hear myself at even a medium small venue. (With an 8 piece soul band, all through PA). I know volume is down to the air you can shift. Do you think swapping for a pair of 210s (thinking maybe TC electronic RS210s) would make a significant difference. I am just not happy that I'm getting 500W of sound at the moment. Any advice would be gratefully received! Thanks guys! Edited May 29, 2011 by cureswhatailsye Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 I found this when I had gs112 cabs 2of, driven 500w from Lm2. I was very underwhelmed by the cabs, I think they are overrated. Might be due to their mid shy sound, to me they did not cut it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 More mids. The GS cabs are scooped, so they don't do the frequencies you hear so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Speaker leads! Firstly, are they decent quality? I recently bought back an old amp (250w) and cab that I sold years ago and the guy gave me his speaker cable. Plugged it all in and it was PATHETIC! I had the input and output maxed and I wouldn't have even had enough volume to rehearse in the house. Checked the speaker lead and it was a silly skinny mic lead; replaced it with a proper speaker cable and hey presto. Secondly, are the speakers/speaker leads in phase? On more than one occasion I've heard of people borrowing cabs and speaker leads and then complaining that the sound is quieter with two cabs than it is with one (have you tried that), a classic indicator that something is out of phase. I've heard a pair of GS112 cabs being driven by a DB750 and with my Thunderfunk and they had plenty of Ooomph. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 (edited) +1 to the previous suggestions.. Also is the input gain adjusted high enough? The GS112's are not the most efficient cabs in the world, but your amp should drive two of them to decent levels.... Of course a couple of barefaced midget T's would give you about an average 3 db gain, but it sounds like you're short quite a bit more than this.. Mark Edited May 29, 2011 by markstuk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Another suggestion that the cabs might be out of phase with each other here. A quick rewire (of the cabs or the leads, but not both!) will sort this out. I used to have a pair of warwick cabs, an ND12 and ND15 and there was no volume when cranked, whipped the speaker out of one and crossed the wires over and boom, job done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 [quote name='MythSte' post='1249513' date='May 29 2011, 06:51 PM']Another suggestion that the cabs might be out of phase with each other here. A quick rewire (of the cabs or the leads, but not both!) will sort this out. I used to have a pair of warwick cabs, an ND12 and ND15 and there was no volume when cranked, whipped the speaker out of one and crossed the wires over and boom, job done [/quote] The quickest way to check (after you've tried each cab by itself and then combined, quieter or at least not as full sounding combined when compared to each in isolation) is to swap ONE of the poles on ONE of your leads (assuming they are speak-on). That should fix your problem... if it is a polarity issue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 29, 2011 Share Posted May 29, 2011 Don't understand this at all. I run with a 400w amp and volume and bottom end is NOT the issue with GS112's at all, IME. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cureswhatailsye Posted May 29, 2011 Author Share Posted May 29, 2011 Hmmm thanks for all the advice. I'll check the polarity tomorrow and see if that's the issue. Running decent quality speakon cables. I'll be truly upset if it's the Eden not cutting the mustard as I waited years to own one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Personally, I don't buy the polarity issue..and I'd try and borrow another amp and see if that is any better. If you run 2 GS112's against a VERY loud drummer/band, you'll blow your ears before you run out of steam on the cabs, IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niceguyhomer Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' date='May 30 2011, 08:58 AM' post='1249894' If you run 2 GS112's against a VERY loud drummer/band, you'll blow your ears before you run out of steam on the cabs, IMO. [/quote] Big +1 IME Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Your MAG210 was probably compressing and distorting and thus adding midrange punch. You're now using a mellow fat sounding amp with mid-shy fat sounding cabs, so much less punch. Start twisting knobs on both bass and amp and changing how and where you pluck. See link in my sig for many more hints and tips in BGM columns and tech stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1249894' date='May 30 2011, 08:58 AM']Personally, I don't buy the polarity issue..and I'd try and borrow another amp and see if that is any better. If you run 2 GS112's against a VERY loud drummer/band, you'll blow your ears before you run out of steam on the cabs, IMO.[/quote] Why not? If you've ever used noise cancelling headphones you'll find the effect of reversing sound waves astounding. And with 2 cabs playing simultaneously and not having to be processed first I would imagine the effect to be even more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 (edited) [quote name='JTUK' post='1249894' date='May 30 2011, 08:58 AM']Personally, I don't buy the polarity issue..and I'd try and borrow another amp and see if that is any better. If you run 2 GS112's against a VERY loud drummer/band, you'll blow your ears before you run out of steam on the cabs, IMO.[/quote] +1 IME too. Edited May 30, 2011 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzMike Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Hmmm ... interesting because I'd been finding the same thing with a GS 112 / 112NT pairing driven by a Shuttle 6.0. Some more drastic EQing on the amp has lead to an improvement, but I'm still not completely happy with the volume. I'm using speakon -> 1/4" cables, but wouldn't have thought that'd make any difference compared with speakon -> speakon ...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Use the 9v battery trick to check the polarity on both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1250398' date='May 30 2011, 03:39 PM']Use the 9v battery trick to check the polarity on both.[/quote] Good point, as it's easily done if you are using Speakon - 1/4" As to out of phase speakers possibly not being the culprit; accepted it could be any one of half a dozen reasons but the easiest checked is plugging the amp into other speakers (not using your cables) or trying a pair of cables with your amp that you know have matched polarity. If anyone is unfamiliar with the effect of having cables/speakers out of phase it's akin to plugging in a second cab and getting 25% less out than with one cab... a marked difference! Has the OP tried using just one cab at a time? I really don't see it being the case of the EQ isn't working with the cabs. I'd expect that any 500w amp with EQ set flat with a pair of GS cabs, should easily outshine the existing 2x10 Ashdown combo (especially a MAG version). Just my thoughts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 The cabs being in opposite polarity will only affect the real bottom in the sound - plugging a reversed polarity cab in will add the usual extra loudness from the low-mids upwards but the sound will get thinner at the same time. Correct the polarity and the true bottom returns but nothing really changes above the low frequency region. I have a reverse polarity lead in the workshop for testing so I'm very familar with its effects! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote name='alexclaber' post='1250573' date='May 30 2011, 06:09 PM']The cabs being in opposite polarity will only affect the real bottom in the sound - plugging a reversed polarity cab in will add the usual extra loudness from the low-mids upwards but the sound will get thinner at the same time. Correct the polarity and the true bottom returns but nothing really changes above the low frequency region. I have a reverse polarity lead in the workshop for testing so I'm very familar with its effects![/quote] +1 and as a result the volume will 'appear' quieter, certainly in comparison to a correct polarity 2x10 combo. However, there could be numerous reasons for an apparent lack of volume/clout but I wouldn't be thinking first and foremost that it was a lack of mids from the GS cabs as there's not a massive amount of difference from say the DBs and from when I've heard them in use they 'should' be wiping the floor with a 2x10 MAG combo. As for flat not being flat - iirc if the Eden is modelled on the passive tone whats-its-face like say the Alembic preamp (as per the Hartke 500), then with everything at 12.00 it will actually be boosting a bit of mids won't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='1250675' date='May 30 2011, 07:23 PM']As for flat not being flat - iirc if the Eden is modelled on the passive tone whats-its-face like say the Alembic preamp (as per the Hartke 500), then with everything at 12.00 it will actually be boosting a bit of mids won't it?[/quote] The passive Fender stack can only cut mids. Between my V-type pre and my GS412 I can rattle the lightbulbs but still be inaudible under a bottomy guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cureswhatailsye Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 An update on this - I just swapped by 2x112s for a lovely Eden 410 (about 15yrs old I think) and it is SO much louder. It sounds absolutely amazing actually - beautiful tone across the spectrum with the WTX500. I guess the Eden + Aguilar combo was just unlucky for me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Eden cabs do seem to be loud. I`ve just sold an 8 ohm Eden Nemesis 410 - so getting 300 watts - used to have my amp on 3 on volume with this cab. I now use a Barefaced Compact & Midget, so am using the amp at full 500 watts - and need my amp volume on 4 or 5. Not knocking the Barefaced cabs at all, they are amazing, so light yet great sound, couldn`t be more pleased with them. Just that as the previous post, Eden do seem to make very loud cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andydye Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='cureswhatailsye' post='1342424' date='Aug 16 2011, 09:19 PM']An update on this - I just swapped by 2x112s for a lovely Eden 410 (about 15yrs old I think) and it is SO much louder. It sounds absolutely amazing actually - beautiful tone across the spectrum with the WTX500. I guess the Eden + Aguilar combo was just unlucky for me![/quote] A very pleasing result! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bassman7755 Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='1249516' date='May 29 2011, 06:56 PM']The quickest way to check (after you've tried each cab by itself and then combined, quieter or at least not as full sounding combined when compared to each in isolation) is to swap ONE of the poles on ONE of your leads (assuming they are speak-on). That should fix your problem... if it is a polarity issue! [/quote] Just put the speakers facing each other about an inch apart if they are our of phase then the volume will drop dramatically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PURPOLARIS Posted September 11, 2011 Share Posted September 11, 2011 [quote name='cureswhatailsye' post='1342424' date='Aug 16 2011, 09:19 PM']An update on this - I just swapped by 2x112s for a lovely Eden 410 (about 15yrs old I think) and it is SO much louder. It sounds absolutely amazing actually - beautiful tone across the spectrum with the WTX500. I guess the Eden + Aguilar combo was just unlucky for me![/quote] +1 to Eden Cabs. I've got a D210 XST and the tone and volume blows me away. The first time I used it I was starting to hear notes which other cabs ie my RS410 didn't pick up too well. I can only imagine a 4x10" being absolutely awesome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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