bass_ferret Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) I sometimes get the feeling us humble semi-pro's are supposed to look up to pro players. But what does being a pro really mean? Is someone on benefit doing cash gigs a pro? When I retire from my day job will I become a pro if the Ferrets are still going (or alive). No doubt some of us have aspirations to being a pro but would we actually be better off getting a proper job. Obviously the top of the tree is very well paid - think Guy Pratt, and you have to start at the bottom to get to the top. But how many get to the top? I had a couple of school mates who were in chart bands and they did very nicely but neither has a Lear Jet. Of course its not just money, it may be a lifestyle choice and as long as you have a roof and food that may be all you need. Edited February 19, 2008 by bass_ferret Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr_russ Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Professional (of a person) engaged in a specified activity as one's main paid occupation rather than as a pastime : a professional boxer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I know several professionals that couldn't play their way out of a paper bag. Being pro is a great way to maximise your potential as a player but it doesn't follow that a pro is a better musician. And making a living as a musician is HARD. Most people are at least 80% teachers and 20% performers. The number who are 100% performing players are VERY low and many of them learned to live off cat litter a long time ago. I know a GREAT piano player who earned £12K last year - thats less than a Kwik Fit Fitter. I'll stay semi until Metheny calls me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onehappybunny Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I think the poll may need explaining for thickies like me ;-) btw i love playing for no money (charity do's, school fetes etc.) as it lowers expectations to a suitable level Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jase Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I would like nothing more than to survive on my earnings as a player alone but the fact of the matter is I can't, sometimes I find myself having to do "other" work which I don't have a problem with, it's money, makes ends meet and all the rest of it. A lot of the players I know need to have some sort of regular income. The jobs I do outside music are just casual things, you couldn't make a career out of them. I know of a player who tours with a legend and does session work, believe it or not still needs to fall back on his day job. Still, I think somebody like that comes under the "pro" title, day job or not. You could say that players who get paid are pro but then again does that make me a pro truck washer? Or am I a semi pro truck washing bass player or a pro bass playing truck washer?????? Who cares? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='onehappybunny' post='142981' date='Feb 19 2008, 12:13 PM']I think the poll may need explaining for thickies like me ;-)[/quote] I have no idea what it means either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 19, 2008 Author Share Posted February 19, 2008 Thoght it was obvious - my bad. If you ain't a pro then you are a con. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birdy Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='143012' date='Feb 19 2008, 12:47 PM']Thoght it was obvious - my bad. If you ain't a pro then you are a con.[/quote] Does the con relate to how much you earn in your day job or how much out of music? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I remember reading a story on the forum, how a chap was talking to Laurence Cottle about a guy he knew who gave up a high flying IT job to become a full time session bass player. He'd said that the guy earned £9k that year. Apparently Laurence turned round and said somethin like "Nine grand??? He must be good!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Nick Smith (person with tonnes of basses from Peterborough and posts as bassdoctor or something on here) said before to me that he was in a high paid IT job but gave that up to play bass full time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='thedontcarebear' post='143030' date='Feb 19 2008, 01:20 PM']Nick Smith (person with tonnes of basses from Peterborough and posts as bassdoctor or something on here) said before to me that he was in a high paid IT job but gave that up to play bass full time.[/quote] Those musicians who worked in IT know why LOL LOL... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedontcarebear Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I work in IT, I am thinking of giving up to work in McDonalds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Music as a career is first and foremost a lifestyle choice IMO - why do it (or anything else) JUST for the money? The short term gains are fine but let's face it nothing is that easy... I know LOADS of incredibly talented musicians in London who are up there at the very top of the ability/talent tree and aside from the odd juicy tour or bit of session work their day to day life is made of small gigs and teaching. A qualified music teacher can earn 40 quid plus an hour in a college - I know one or two guys in Brighton at the BIM who've told me as much - and I guess if you have a 'pit job' with one of the big musicals in the West End I'm sure the monthly / PA salary can be very good indeed. But it's up to you if you are A. good enough to sight read stuff B love playing Queen songs every night - for example. From my POV I work in the 'music industry' (I really hate that term 'industry' it's complete BS) and balance 'day job' stuff with 'night job' stuff like gigging and rehearsing. I feel I have a good slice of both regular income and enough creative side lines to keep me happy. Saying that I would love to play more... I had a great chat with a full-time bassist the other day - he plays in 5 or 6 bands, tours regularly, is recording a new album etc etc - but he STILL works a Sunday job in a music shop for the extra cash... thus we're back to this is a lifestyle choice - he has chosen this way to live and he loves it - plus he gets paid enough to keep doing it. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianrunci Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I worked pro for 20 years. Its not really that difficult to earn money playing covers or doing session work. I started in 1981 and was earning a good wedge for the next ten years touring and doing the odd session, then when work dried up a bit I turned to guitar and went out on my own and earned a good living doing four gigs a week, certainly a lot more than I could have earned doing a day job. I am back on bass in a band now doing corporate gigs and wedding etc, we are only a 4 piece but we still manage to pull between a grand and £1800 a night. I suppose that would make me a pro. I think anyone who really wants to do it just needs to step off the edge and go for it. But if you have a well paid day job that you enjoy doing then there is no real point doing it. It is a gamble only if your not prepared to work hard as its not easy earning a good living from it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 Mr Cottle was not talking about me Fosk! I only earn £8k a year!!! There's a lot to be said for walking away from the `rat race' but it can be very tough to sustain a reasonable living playing full-time. I'm not making as much as I did (which at that time was quite a nice bunch of folding) but I'm doing something that I love - and paying my mortgage. I'll never be that wealthy (until such time my planned album hits #1 in Belgium of course) but the collection will hopefully continue to grow and perhaps, one day, I will hang up me Vigiers and open that shop I always wanted! Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexclaber Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 I won't be a pro until someone will pay me as much as my day job does to perform my own music! The last thing I want to happen to music and me is for our relationship to be driven by financial needs rather than artistic loves. Better keep writing better songs then... Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassninja Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 There have been times when I've been 'pro' (i.e. the only pittance coming in to put grub on the table is through gigs), but mostly music has provided enough £, with other bits & pieces, to just keep my chin above the sewage . I now work F/T in the NHS, get paid to play music at work and gig as much as I can with the odd session. I've had the opportunity to tour/sessioneer etc over the years, but have never gone for it because I need music too much for it to become tedious and stressful (like a job). 'Professional' to me relates to your approach, not your status. If you turn up late to a gig with no backline and your leads in a carrier bag (as I have seen 'pros' do more than once), I don't really think you can call yourself professional, regardless of your main source of income. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) I've earned a living from playing my bass since 1989 supporting a family of five for the last 12. At first I felt good if I earned 12k now I couldn't really manage with less than 35k (gross). I have taught at a university and a couple of colleges but the vast majority of my income has come from gigs and recording. I had one spell of working in IT when we moved south (from Manchester) but that was just until I (and now we, my wife is also a musician, just started back, kids all in school) got established to pick up freelance work in my new area. Thanks to my wife earning again I now don't have to take everything I'm offered and I can spend a bit more time on projects I really enjoy. I probably could have earned a lot more money had I got a conventional job (I will work very hard) but I have always valued my personal standard of happiness more than owning stuff like a flash car or the whole material trip. The one thing I feel really lucky to have had as a perk is travel. The only place left on my list of where to go is Australia. I've been to every other continent (not counting the really cold ones) and been to more than thirty countries mostly gigging. For me its all about balance, happiness with providing. Jake Edited February 19, 2008 by jakesbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doctor_of_the_bass Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 (edited) "For me its all about balance, happiness with providing". Jake Couldn't agree more Jake. I used to run two vehicles (Porsche 944 - the `toy' and a trusty Escort van for transporting my rig!), had major monthly spending power (hence the means to start building on the collection of instruments which I'd started whilst still at school), everything was fantastic - the job involved IT consultancy for TV companies - spent a lot of time down at MTV etc but then everything changed - we were bought out by a competitor and things changed for us. The department was dissolved and I ended up having to change job and go back to being a technical author, which at first was fine. However, things went downhill after this change - many friends lost their jobs and after a period of 6 months I became deeply unhappy being chained to a job which saw me getting home at 10pm every night following a commute home from London. Many friends of mine thought I was crazy walking out (I was earning £32K at that time) but it was the best thing I'd ever done - I was skint for a while but the collection helped me keep going through some sales and now, 7 years later, I'm earning a decent monthly wage for the most part, mainly through tuition (including the odd guitar lesson!!!), regular gigging and theatre shows. I'm enjoying life again and of course, my own playing is improving through teaching!!! And the collection is now at 51 basses....! My father summed it all up many years ago - `grab life by the b*lls otherwise let it pass you by' - took me till I was 30 to realise this but now my life is mine again and I'm very very happy. Edited February 19, 2008 by doctor_of_the_bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wizbat Posted February 19, 2008 Share Posted February 19, 2008 [quote name='doctor_of_the_bass' post='143452' date='Feb 19 2008, 11:03 PM']"For me its all about balance, happiness with providing". Jake Couldn't agree more Jake. I used to run two vehicles (Porsche 944 - the `toy' and a trusty Escort van for transporting my rig!), had major monthly spending power (hence the means to start building on the collection of instruments which I'd started whilst still at school), everything was fantastic - the job involved IT consultancy for TV companies - spent a lot of time down at MTV etc but then everything changed - we were bought out by a competitor and things changed for us. The department was dissolved and I ended up having to change job and go back to being a technical author, which at first was fine. However, things went downhill after this change - many friends lost their jobs and after a period of 6 months I became deeply unhappy being chained to a job which saw me getting home at 10pm every night following a commute home from London. Many friends of mine thought I was crazy walking out (I was earning £32K at that time) but it was the best thing I'd ever done - I was skint for a while but the collection helped me keep going through some sales and now, 7 years later, I'm earning a decent monthly wage for the most part, mainly through tuition (including the odd guitar lesson!!!), regular gigging and theatre shows. I'm enjoying life again and of course, my own playing is improving through teaching!!! And the collection is now at 51 basses....! My father summed it all up many years ago - `grab life by the b*lls otherwise let it pass you by' - took me till I was 30 to realise this but now my life is mine again and I'm very very happy.[/quote] More power to you nick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chardbass Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 You can make a living from doing one-offs, show tours etc. Some of these guys will say that they drive for a living- 8hrs in the car punctuated by a 45 min gig in the middle. Thankfully most of my money is made from a residency. It might not be everyone's cup of tea- the important thing for me is that I make a living from a talent that I have and enjoy, and I get to have a personal life too!! Nothing else would interest me. It's got to be music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 20, 2008 Share Posted February 20, 2008 Hey this is a good thread - my compliments to the honesty and down to earth nature of the replies - I never thought I'd manage to be freelance for so long working in 'jazz' but since I both write and know how to run websites etc I've got loads of work on - so that leaves plenty of scope for doing musical projects that I like not stuff I don't - like others have said here money is not the main motivation but I'm pleased to say at present I'm earning a lot closer to 30K (gross) and with a baby on the way I know where most of that will be going from now on... hence ordering a Sei before the little monkey man arrives! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted February 20, 2008 Author Share Posted February 20, 2008 I dont always flame Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
99ster Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 As the old joke goes: Q: What do you call a guitarist ([i]bassist, drummer, singer, etc[/i]) without a girlfriend? A: Homeless. I know a bass player in a huge band - and I mean internationally very famous... But because he's not part of the publishing deal he only makes any serious money when they tour. He could hardly be called poor - but I was astonished when I found out he little money he makes relative to the fame of the band. And another friend from a pretty well known band in the 80's/90's (major label deals - 10 LPs, toured the world) - who really does struggle to make ends meet... They had a fantastic studio built for them - which they got to keep when they were dropped by a major label. They were forced to sell it for an absolute pittance a few years later - as they were all broke & were desperate for the cash. Some of you may have seen this piece before by Steve Albini (Nirvana producer): [url="http://www.mercenary.com/probwitmusby.html"]http://www.mercenary.com/probwitmusby.html[/url] Probably best not to read it if you're young & dreaming of being 'signed' & becoming rich & famous. Being a 'pro' can very often be a very hard career choice - and my feeling is that it's not going to get any easier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cooke Posted February 23, 2008 Share Posted February 23, 2008 [quote name='99ster' post='145425' date='Feb 23 2008, 01:46 AM']Some of you may have seen this piece before by Steve Albini (Nirvana producer): [url="http://www.mercenary.com/probwitmusby.html"]http://www.mercenary.com/probwitmusby.html[/url] Probably best not to read it if you're young & dreaming of being 'signed' & becoming rich & famous.[/quote] that needs to be in a sticky... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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