51m0n Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Wow! Surprised by that disparity a lot. I have an sa450, and have used several different MB combos in reheasal studios, and have always had similar gain settings before clipping.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only4 Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Yep, i was a bit worried to start with, i even changed the battery in my bass. But after an A/B test it was still the same. I just go by the instructions and it sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 [quote name='waltsdog' post='1228258' date='May 11 2011, 03:35 PM']My settings were gain about 12 o'clock (no clipping) and volume about 2 o'clock with the 2 cabs in a maybe 200 capacity room (albeit a very odd shaped room) everything else on the amp is dead flat.[/quote] On a LMII the VPF & VLE controls are flat when they are all the way left, not in the middle. The VPF is a mid scoop and if that is in the middle you get that bedroom tone you can't hear with a band. My LMII and an Aguilar GS112 with a passive jazz will handle a loud band no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='only4' post='1232847' date='May 16 2011, 11:19 AM']Here are my experiences with the MarkBass input gain. I have an SA450 head and i recently aquired a CMD121H combo. When using the SA450 I have the gain set to about 12 o'clock to make sure that it doesn't clip, but when i plugged in to the combo for the first time i was suprised that i could wind the gain up to around 5 o'clock before there was any sign of the clip light coming on. I presume that the two amps just have different input sensitivity?[/quote] That is strange. Was the combo using a LMIII head or the older LMII. Im not sure that would make a difference anyway. The SA450 and LMII do have slightly different input sensitivities but i wouldn't have thought it would make that much difference In fact when i was trying out my new LMII a few years ago i used this rig for one gig. One amp per set and both sounded almost identical. A bit off topic but ive just noticed the SA450 is now discontinued. Shame. Two great amps no longer available. Edited May 19, 2011 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 I think Markbass needs to have a shuffle and create some new models. The SA450 mid control on a 'Littlemark 4' with the new limiter, headphone socket, aux in, and the same or slightly higher wattage. That shot is a nice setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Musicman20' post='1236847' date='May 19 2011, 12:35 PM']I think Markbass needs to have a shuffle and create some new models. The SA450 mid control on a 'Littlemark 4' with the new limiter, headphone socket, aux in, and the same or slightly higher wattage. That shot is a nice setup.[/quote] I would love a F500 as it seems more like a SA450, only smaller. If only it wasnt so expensive. In fact, i think all the MB heads are a bit over priced now. That shot was taken at a Holiday camp, the biggest we have played. No real PA support and very high stage. The amps were fantastic but the cab was rubbish. I sold it just after that gig. We have been back there twice and using my 1212L ive had the master on about 1/3 lower than with the UL212 and that was too loud. Edited May 19, 2011 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 Oh heck, glad you got rid then. I DO think Markbass in general are expensive. The LM2/3, I can understand thats a fair price. But the rest? No. Markbass have been market leaders in lightweight amps for a while now, but it seems like their position is slipping, especially in the USA with Genz. I dont understand why Markbass is so much cheaper in the USA, when the come from Italy?! Surely the UK should be able to sell them a little cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
only4 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 (edited) It is the LMII head. I also noticed that the input spec for both amps is slightly different, but im not sure what effect this has. LMII impedance 500 Kohm, max. voltage 15 Vpp SA450 impedance: 500 Kohm, max. voltage: 9 Vpp Edited May 19, 2011 by only4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1236861' date='May 19 2011, 12:51 PM']Oh heck, glad you got rid then. I DO think Markbass in general are expensive. The LM2/3, I can understand thats a fair price. But the rest? No. Markbass have been market leaders in lightweight amps for a while now, but it seems like their position is slipping, especially in the USA with Genz. I dont understand why Markbass is so much cheaper in the USA, when the come from Italy?! Surely the UK should be able to sell them a little cheaper.[/quote] Cabs are overpriced but i think the LMII will be a classic when peeps in the future look back . My back and I cannot praise it enough. Never not had enough power and wonderful clarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 19, 2011 Share Posted May 19, 2011 [quote name='BottomE' post='1237031' date='May 19 2011, 04:07 PM']Cabs are overpriced but i think the LMII will be a classic when peeps in the future look back . My back and I cannot praise it enough. Never not had enough power and wonderful clarity.[/quote] It is a great amp! Without a doubt. I just think they need the NEXT version, something totally new and refreshing. Id buy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibrating G String Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1236861' date='May 19 2011, 04:51 AM']I dont understand why Markbass is so much cheaper in the USA, when the come from Italy?! Surely the UK should be able to sell them a little cheaper.[/quote] That might have to do with the volume we buy and they are distributed through the giant retail chain Guitar Center and their close ties with Musicman. This could be enough to offset the longer time on a freighter. I do know the parts on mine I've looked at come from China, if they are more Chinese made than suspected the European ones may go through Italy but the American ones may come more direct to the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) Interesting! I always thought everything was made in their factory near their head office in Italy. When I say made, perhaps I should say 'assembled'. Edited May 20, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1236861' date='May 19 2011, 12:51 PM']I dont understand why Markbass is so much cheaper in the USA, when the come from Italy?! Surely the UK should be able to sell them a little cheaper.[/quote] In my experience, the only difference between the US and UK models is the little 110/240 jumper inside...OK, it was a bum-clenching moment plugging a US LMIII in and switching it on for the first time, but it worked just fine. And cost nearly half the price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='1236852' date='May 19 2011, 12:40 PM']....I would love a F500 as it seems more like a SA450, only smaller....[/quote] I believe the F1 and F500 have digital power amps and the SA450 and LM3 have an analog power amp. I have owned an LM2 and an F1 and their sound was like chalk and cheese to me. I preferred the LM2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1237931' date='May 20 2011, 11:12 AM']I believe the F1 and F500 have digital power amps and the SA450 and LM3 have an analog power amp. I have owned an LM2 and an F1 and their sound was like chalk and cheese to me. I preferred the LM2.[/quote] Plus 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1237931' date='May 20 2011, 11:12 AM']I believe the F1 and F500 have digital power amps and the SA450 and LM3 have an analog power amp. I have owned an LM2 and an F1 and their sound was like chalk and cheese to me. I preferred the LM2.[/quote] I meant as far as controls/EQ knobs go rather than tone. Ive had a few chats with KJung in the past about the actual tonal differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Just a quick update. I thin im going to get rid of my Streamliner and get a F series head. I heard a F500 yesterday at a lunchtime gig in a local pub and it sounded very nice. Ive not been 100% with the SL and last night was when i realised i dont think i ever will be. Hopefully i can sell it and put the money towards a F500, or probably more likely a F1 as that closer to the cost of the SL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='1240135' date='May 22 2011, 11:05 AM']Just a quick update. I thin im going to get rid of my Streamliner and get a F series head. I heard a F500 yesterday at a lunchtime gig in a local pub and it sounded very nice. Ive not been 100% with the SL and last night was when i realised i dont think i ever will be. Hopefully i can sell it and put the money towards a F500, or probably more likely a F1 as that closer to the cost of the SL.[/quote] They are nice amps. Only thing is, when I tested one, I couldnt really see why it was so much more expensive than the LM3. Yes, yet get the extra mid functions with the F500, and a rather 'poor' mute, (why oh why dont Markbass just make a DECENT mute button?!) but thats about it. It is smaller and lighter, but I dont thats really something to worry about with these micro amps. I still think the F series are expensive for what you get, but they do sound great. Then again, the LM2/3 sounds great, and its quite a lot cheaper. If I was to buy a Markbass amp again, id probably stick to the LM3 or wait for the next LM amp. I found the P bass with the LM3 much nicer compared to the F500...the F500 sounded almost 'too' clinical and Im guessing this is due to the Class D power. One amp that might be worth checking is the Genz Shuttle 9.0...if you want to have a more clean sparkly type tone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 (edited) what do you mean by "poor mute"? The worst ive seen was on my Ashdown ABM, that didn't mute at all but was more a pad. Do you mean the fact that you have to pull the knob out? if so i agree, pretty silly idea. Having owned a LMII and SA450 i can see the benefit of the Para mids and the line level/pre post XLR but i also know i normally run my MB heads pretty flat, and use the filters to shape the tone so im not sure i really need the F500. I still dont see the Streamliner/LMII/III as micro amps. They are small but the F series is really small and would fit in a gig bag front pocket. This makes a huge difference if your using public transport with a bass and suit carrier etc. The other heads are nice and small but still require a separate bag/case. I can understand why the F series, along with the SD series cost more than their analogue powerstage equivalents, but i agree, they are a bit overpriced compared to the competition, especially the F500. I cant see why thats almost £300 more than the F1. Its not like the power stage is any different. The Genz Shuttle 9.0 does look good but im not sure its in my price range, im probably looking at second hand now anyway. There is a F1 for sale on here for £380, to me thats worth a shot. After trying the SL600 out in a few different venues now im thinking maybe i do want to keep with the MB tone, although i do still want something a bit different, i guess a F series might give me that. Since i posted the above i did have it pointed out to me that as i still have my SA450 why bother with another MB head. This makes sense so im going to give the SL one more chance with two gigs next weekend and then ill decide what goes. I do miss the MB filters. Im also goin to give the Jazz a go, maybe its the P/SL600 combo thats not working for me. Edited May 22, 2011 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 Good idea Dave, the SA450 gives you the lot apart from the small factor! Yeah, I really didnt like the pull mute on the recent Markbass amps, it seemed fiddly to me. I tried it on the LMTube and F500 and found it just annoyed me! I reckon a 2nd hand F1 would be a good idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismuzz Posted May 22, 2011 Share Posted May 22, 2011 The F1 is fantastic! I fell in love with it right away and haven't wanted another head since. I bought mine new for 600 and I still think I got a good deal. Do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltsdog Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Quick update, I used the Lm3 with just the midget on a mid sized pub gig on saturday and it was plenty loud enough now I know what I'm ding with the gain. Thanks again for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 [quote name='waltsdog' post='1241183' date='May 23 2011, 08:46 AM']Quick update, I used the Lm3 with just the midget on a mid sized pub gig on saturday and it was plenty loud enough now I know what I'm ding with the gain. Thanks again for the help.[/quote] Nice one. These heads are very loud but i do think the right cab also helps to get the best out of them. The first time i ever played a LMII was when the Bass Gallery leant me one as my SA450 hadn't arrived (yes, really, it didn't arrive on the day they said it would lol). I had never played a MB head at a gig, as i had been using a Ashdown ABM 300 up to that point :-( so it was pick the head up and go directly to the gig, no sound check either. We were doing a smallish pub, playing Paul Weller covers. I kid you not, with the LMII on around 3 on the master (using flat EQ through my 1210R) i could see the beer in the glasses on the front tables vibrating, just like the glass scene in Jurassic Park. Some of that gig recording is in the Wellah link in my sig if anyone is interested. @Gareth and Chris. the wheels are in motion regarding the F1 :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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