stevie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1191635' date='Apr 7 2011, 12:41 PM']As for the speaker industry..it will prompt alternatives and R&D, IMO.[/quote] Well, there's Fe16N2..... and you heard it first on Basschat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merton Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='stevie' post='1191649' date='Apr 7 2011, 12:53 PM']Well, there's Fe16N2..... and you heard it first on Basschat. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Speaking of Neo cabs, why the HUGE price difference between GK Neo cabinets and, for example, Mark Bass cabinets?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1191673' date='Apr 7 2011, 01:12 PM']Speaking of Neo cabs, why the HUGE price difference between GK Neo cabinets and, for example, Mark Bass cabinets?![/quote] The difference is probably due to the quality and cost of the drivers they fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1191248' date='Apr 6 2011, 06:15 PM']I understand that from an engineers point of view, but a customer? I can guarantee a large amount like ceramic loaded cabs...even if it's psychological. I cannot see them being phased out for a long time now this has happened.[/quote]Ceramic drivers in excess of ten pounds weight will eventually go away because of the price of oil, which determines the price of shipping. The neo situation should have been anticipated, but wasn't until too late. But it will be solved in relatively short order, as many neo deposits exist and the mines are already there, they just have to be re-opened and/or expanded. Investors are already scrambling to buy shares in neo mining, and the price of neo mining stocks has jumped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='stevie' post='1191684' date='Apr 7 2011, 01:20 PM']The difference is probably due to the quality and cost of the drivers they fit.[/quote] +1 - Being bassists we tend to get a bit fixated on TS parameters and excursion as the markers of a 'good' driver but there's an awful lot more to it than that. B&C PA drivers are excellent, and fitted in a lot of the big pro-sound systems. Funnily enough I've never seen any with Eminence drivers in, though that could well be because we're in Europe - and I've only used a few big systems anyway so I'm sure there are some. What BFM says about the market sorting itself out in a year or so is probably true, but speaker manufacturers tend to be relatively small concerns so I do wonder if the after-effects of this are going to be felt for a lot longer than that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='stevie' post='1191649' date='Apr 7 2011, 12:53 PM']Well, there's Fe16N2..... and you heard it first on Basschat. [/quote] I can't be bothered with such an idiotic post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='stevie' post='1191684' date='Apr 7 2011, 01:20 PM']The difference is probably due to the quality and cost of the drivers they fit.[/quote] Agreed, but they make insanely light cabs for a very low price. Whether they are very high quality is obviously another issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='JTUK' post='1191732' date='Apr 7 2011, 02:01 PM']I can't be bothered with such an idiotic post.[/quote] It's difficult to argue with such an incisive and carefully crafted critique. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I see a few of the AE's series have gone up already in £'s... Hmmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Terence was a price rise on April 1 anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMT3781 Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Toasted' post='1192047' date='Apr 7 2011, 05:54 PM']Terence was a price rise on April 1 anyway.[/quote] Surely that's an example of the extremely helpful iPad/phone spell check? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Some neo cabs are just getting to silly prices, IMO. I can understand a quality cabinet, and the reasons behind high end amps, but at £1000+ for a 4x10, id rather put into an instrument. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1192064' date='Apr 7 2011, 06:05 PM']Some neo cabs are just getting to silly prices, IMO. I can understand a quality cabinet, and the reasons behind high end amps, but at £1000+ for a 4x10, id rather put into an instrument.[/quote] Top quality drivers are expensive. If you want a really high-end 10", you will pay at least £100 each at retail prices. I can see how a price of £1,000 is possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' post='1191709' date='Apr 7 2011, 01:43 PM']Ceramic drivers in excess of ten pounds weight will eventually go away because of the price of oil, which determines the price of shipping. The neo situation should have been anticipated, but wasn't until too late. But it will be solved in relatively short order, as many neo deposits exist and the mines are already there, they just have to be re-opened and/or expanded. Investors are already scrambling to buy shares in neo mining, and the price of neo mining stocks has jumped.[/quote] I think the processing infrastructure is a fairly big deal too, needs a bunch of investment, because it doesn't exist already, so has to be started from scratch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='stevie' post='1192099' date='Apr 7 2011, 06:30 PM']Top quality drivers are expensive. If you want a really high-end 10", you will pay at least £100 each at retail prices. I can see how a price of £1,000 is possible.[/quote] Possible, agreed, but insane. For what is effectively 4 high end speakers and a few other bits in a box! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1192124' date='Apr 7 2011, 06:53 PM']Possible, agreed, but insane. For what is effectively 4 high end speakers and a few other bits in a box![/quote] Sorry I disagree. It may seem just like a box, but a fairly large proportion of R&D goes into the difference between just a 410 and a top of the line 410. There are many 410s out there, they all sound different, the best ones are sublime, the worst are gash. Same with all speakers for any application. There are hifi speakers and monitors out there costing 10K plus, so stop complaining! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1192124' date='Apr 7 2011, 06:53 PM']Possible, agreed, but insane. For what is effectively 4 high end speakers and a few other bits in a box![/quote] These high end drivers are built in relatively small quantities and benefit from the manufacturer's latest and best R&D. I have an Eminence 3012LF here, a very nice driver - certainly a lot better than the speakers fitted to most bass cabs. But when you put it next to the BMS driver I also have, you can see the difference in quality immediately. That quality comes at a price, unfortunately. I'd rather have a £200 bass and a £1,000 speaker cabinet than the other way round. Come to think of it, that's basically what I've got. There are a very few bass cab makers using high-end drivers: isn't Bergantino one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 (edited) Hey, I'm not actually complaining. I'm just discussing my opinion. This is allowed. Please dont dismiss other views just because you might not agree. Some of us don't just fall for hype, we ask why! No one should pay a premium just because its a high end product. Look at the USA prices between two or three cab makers, then look at it here in the UK. Disproportionate differences. One or two have a massive difference when in the USA they are virtually the same price. I'm not aiming this at any manufacturer, I've seen it quite few times. Certain cabs are overpriced in this country when you compare it to the USA, and what I mean by this is the fact other high end gear doesnt have the vast difference once they get to the UK. Edited April 7, 2011 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawrenceH Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1192191' date='Apr 7 2011, 08:05 PM']Hey, I'm not actually complaining. I'm just discussing my opinion. This is allowed. Please dont dismiss other views just because you might not agree. Some of us don't just fall for hype, we ask why! No one should pay a premium just because its a high end product. Look at the USA prices between two or three cab makers, then look at it here in the UK. Disproportionate differences. One or two have a massive difference when in the USA they are virtually the same price. I'm not aiming this at any manufacturer, I've seen it quite few times. Certain cabs are overpriced in this country when you compare it to the USA, and what I mean by this is the fact other high end gear doesnt have the vast difference once they get to the UK.[/quote] I don't think Stevie dismissed your views or was being combative, he just gave a reason why a 4x10 might be very expensive. I dont' know if that applies to Bergantino cabs or not but take the scenario of a small US manufacturer using high-end European drivers (that are more expensive than the Eminence units anyway), which are then shipped to the States, then shipped back to Europe in cabs without the economic scale savings of a larger manufacturer - easy to see why they might be so expensive. A truly decent compression driver/horn/crossover isn't cheap either and a lot of bass cab manufacturers will skimp in all these, even if they use good woofers. It would probably cost literally ten times as much as the piezo used in SWR/some Markbass combos (about a tenner retail I think). The silly light GK neo cabs could well be using pressed frame woofers with quite small magnets - these are much cheaper, and weigh very little. Bung them in a box made of relatively thin ply and you're done, but it'll sound pretty different to a proper high-end driver in a decent box. The thing is, it's bass guitar not hi-fi so you might like the sound, even though it's technically quite distorted/inaccurate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 [quote name='Musicman20' post='1192191' date='Apr 7 2011, 08:05 PM']Hey, I'm not actually complaining. I'm just discussing my opinion. This is allowed. Please dont dismiss other views just because you might not agree.[/quote] I'm not dismissing your view in the slightest - honest! I'm just making the case for using a high quality speaker system for bass. Whether you get such a system by spending a lot of money is, as you quite rightly point out, in the lap of the gods, because it's often difficult to know what you're getting for your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 (edited) I would be very very wary of buying cabs with bespoke NEO drivers now. If a line has been discontinued and you have a problem with that chassis, then getting repair kits could be a problem.. particuarly in the UK. It can be a pain to source a current speaker from the cab maker as it is, but if that cab line has stopped production and the bespoke speaker/chassis is no longer made for that manufacturer, you could have trouble sourcing a replacement speaker...and have to buy an off-the-shelf one and hope it is close. Now certain makers aren't very forth-coming of their speaker specs anyway so good luck with that one. And if the cab has multiple chassis', then you might be in for quite a bill replacing them all if only one speaker goes. That is without getting into any remodelling of the cab to accomodate a different spec. I had this problem with PAS speakers which SWR stopped using..and I can see the same problem cropping up again with discontinued lines. The U.S said they could source a cone repair kit but if you ask UK repairers, they couldn't make the speaker with that same spec after repair. I tried more than a few repairers in the U.K and they all said the same thing. Edited April 8, 2011 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toasted Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 I have full confidence that if one of the neo drivers in one of my Bergantino cabs failed that Bergantino would sort me out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 [quote name='Toasted' post='1192599' date='Apr 8 2011, 09:19 AM']I have full confidence that if one of the neo drivers in one of my Bergantino cabs failed that Bergantino would sort me out.[/quote] I'll second that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 8, 2011 Share Posted April 8, 2011 Really..??? With the best will in the world, these drivers might not be produced anymore..if that is the case, and the whole point of any given cab may be that they are dedicated drivers for a specific cab, then getting a replacement might be hard for any cab maker simply because the manufacturered batch has been discontinued. I suppose a few cabs makers might have some lying around for this type of contingency but then again, they may not. In the past, I have wanted recones on a a few speakers and the only ones that were widely available and therefore easy to get reconed were JBL's. In the U.S, they tend to have replacement kits on popular lines but whether any given type of bespoke speaker falls into that catergory, I might doubt. And in some cases it is cheaper to get a new speaker than get it repaired. If as BFM says, this is a temporary blip with NEO speakers, then the problem may lessen. But it would be an issue for me, just IME.!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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