spinynorman Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 How much shill bidding do you think goes on with eBay? And how do you tell? I've been watching a couple of auctions where there's a zero feedback bidder making small incremental bids, and just on that auction. But I suppose it could be someone new who doesn't understand how the system works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ou7shined Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 The drummer in my old band was at it all the time. He'd buy up concert tickets the second they were available then flog them off for a stupid profit which paid for his tickets, flights, accommodation, merchandise (some of which he'd later sell on the bay using the same technique) etc. He'd text me to place a bid for him - proof that not all shills have zero feedback bidders. I grudgingly did it a couple of times coz he's a mate, then after that told him to poke it. Turned out he had his entire network of mates doing it for him. He probably makes it to at least one major gig somewhere in the world every month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 And don’t always believe the feedback. A few years ago I was watching a WAL bass auction. It was sold and then the seller backed out of the deal. He duly got bad feed back, and then I noticed that his feedback was getting better. He was selling silly things, like a hair for 1p, probably to another Id he owned and was giving himself good feedback! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougie Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 [quote name='chris_b' post='1163048' date='Mar 15 2011, 01:26 PM']And don’t always believe the feedback. A few years ago I was watching a WAL bass auction. It was sold and then the seller backed out of the deal. He duly got bad feed back, and then I noticed that his feedback was getting better. He was selling silly things, like a hair for 1p, probably to another Id he owned and was giving himself good feedback![/quote] i remember him,i bought his entire stock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 quite common i think i've been asked to do it a couple of times and refused...there's enough shysters out there without me adding to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted March 15, 2011 Author Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Johnston' post='1163246' date='Mar 15 2011, 03:57 PM']The other I got asked to bid for a motor bike part, basically to get a part on his behalf as he didn't have an ebay account. The auction was near the price already so rather than wait till the end I put the bid on and sure enough it got maxed out. No bother phoned and let him know. Got told stick another £5 on there and then. Did so then it got out bid. He was watching from someone elses computer I got the call to say stick another few quid on. Did so, despite telling him to pick a price and I'd stick it on last minute but he wanted them put on there and then. This went on for maybe an hour, phone call every 15 mins or so until I was told to keep upping the bid every couple of minutes nearer the end of the auction. Until just before the end I get a final phone call "STOP BIDDING" turned out another mate who knew about the auction had took it upon himself to bid on his behalf but failed to mention it, he'd phoned up saying he was bidding on the auction but someone keeps bidding against him . So we ended up in a bidding war to buy the same item for the same guy Or One of us was shilling for the seller[/quote] That's an example where it would look to anyone else like shill bidding, but wasn't really. I wonder how much of what is thought to be shill is actually innocent. Edited March 15, 2011 by spinynorman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Annoying Twit Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 (edited) [quote name='spinynorman' post='1162955' date='Mar 15 2011, 12:15 PM']How much shill bidding do you think goes on with eBay? And how do you tell? I've been watching a couple of auctions where there's a zero feedback bidder making small incremental bids, and just on that auction. But I suppose it could be someone new who doesn't understand how the system works.[/quote] I'd say that there are huge numbers of shill bids. If the shill bidder is particularly dim, you might notice: a) A bidder who only bids on one person's auctions, but bids on most items that bidder sells. Small incremental bids, particularly if the last one is withdrawn. c) A huge bid which outbids you. This is withdrawn, and another bidder bids just under your maximum. d) Items which are "won" but immediately reappear for sale, with no negative (or even positive) feedback added. I had a situation where I feel I might have been shilled. Not sure, but enough evidence to make me feel that I didn't want to go on with the purchase. Someone agreed to sell something to me off-ebay. Then, they said they couldn't meet up for a while. An identical (not common at all) item went up on ebay at the same location. I was a bit annoyed, but bid on it at a lower price than the originally agreed price. Near the end I was out-bid, and decided to let it go. But, then a few days later, I was told that the seller could now meet up with me to sell the item. I thought about it for a bit, and didn't feel good about it. So, I just replied that I'd already bought one, and gave them the link to the ebay auction. I figured that either it wasn't a dodgy deal, in which case the seller would just think that I'd bought the other item. Or, that if it was as I suspected, that the seller would know that I hadn't bought the item, but wouldn't be able to say so. So, either way it worked out. Maybe. Edited March 15, 2011 by Annoying Twit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry_B Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 Wasn't someone nicked for it in the UK awhile back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cytania Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 I know I was shilled in an auction for an Avalon acoustic. This was in August so it had picked up very few bids. I put in a low one before going to rehearsal. When I got back the item had been 'won' by someone bidding a fraction above me. Then the next day I was contact to say that I could have the item as the 'winning' bid had dropped out. I could have had a bargain but I walked away. Why? Not because of any high stance on shills. I just got to thinking if the seller could play tricks like shilling then how are they going to act when I go to pick the item up? All snarky and charge me extra for the gig bag? Loosen the truss rod, scratch the top? Add a few dents with their boot, cos I can't complain at that price? The auction is the start of a contract and a relationship. If you get obvious bad faith right at the beginning then it's best to save your travelling time and stress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted March 15, 2011 Share Posted March 15, 2011 It can also be innocent..... I recently sold my lathe. It was a newbie who won it. £755.55 was the winning bid. Small bids upto and over a chap who was interested. He failed to pay. I got the listing fee back ok. A week later I offered it to the chap below who declined the offer. I did feel that he thought he was being had. The outcome is I still have it and lost the sale through no fault of mine. It is annoying but a fact of life I'm afraid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted March 16, 2011 Author Share Posted March 16, 2011 [quote name='Johnston' post='1163377' date='Mar 15 2011, 05:24 PM']I don't think there are that many people stupid enough to have two bidders bidding on the same item for the same person for it to look like shilling Although it must have looked odd to the seller (The seller can see full Ids can't they??) to have two people bidding from Northern Ireland and within miles of each other for the same rare part One way to avoid it is use a snipe program I know folk don't like them. But if you haven't bid then the seller hasn't anyone to shill against.[/quote] Actually I would have thought that is exactly how shills work. You need one genuine buyer who really wants the item and one shill bidder to make sure they pay a hefty price. Admittedly you might expect the shill to be located near the seller, not the buyer, but it wouldn't be impossible. Sniping might work against a shill if there's no other interest - stops the small incremental bid. But doesn't work if there's other genuine bidders who don't snipe. I sometimes wonder when I see items with just one very early bid, which turns out to be a big one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SS73 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 1971, Ampeg portaflex, if any ones bidding here I would be wondering Hmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 Bid on an item myself recently where I thought a shill bid had been made. I bid just above the minimum bid , nothing happened for 7 days, then with a couple of hours to go I was outbid by a tenner. Considered leaving it but decided to go to the price I was expecting it to go for initially and then turned off the PC so I wouldn't watch what was happening. I 'won' the item but I can see how you could get dragged in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB1 Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 [quote name='Jerry_B' post='1163350' date='Mar 15 2011, 05:11 PM']Wasn't someone nicked for it in the UK awhile back?[/quote] MB1. ...Caught bidding on his own Pie Warmer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hubrad Posted March 18, 2011 Share Posted March 18, 2011 [quote name='MB1' post='1167029' date='Mar 18 2011, 01:09 PM']MB1. ...Caught bidding on his own Pie Warmer! [/quote] Ooh.. the imagery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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