Multi bass jams.

[thisnameistaken]

Anyone else notice that when you get more than one bass player in a frame it starts to look like rehab for sex offenders?

[mep]

[quote name='Alfie' post='998935' date='Oct 24 2010, 03:40 PM']I don't know if anything ever came of it, but weren't Mani, Andy Rouke and Peter Hook working on some sort of bass only project?[/quote]


[quote name='ahpook' post='998938' date='Oct 24 2010, 03:41 PM']yes...they were, and from what i heard of the results, i'm glad they stopped ![/quote]

In this months issue of BGM there is an article about their project Freebass. Their debut album [i][/i]It's A Beautiful Life[i][/i] was released on 20th September. Live dates will be announced, although Andy Rouke joining them due to his recent moe to New York. Check out www.freebassuk.com

You heard it here first! Watch this space, although there wont't be many of them with 3 bassists!

[xilddx]

Since Jake has contributed to this thread, maybe I should say something about a lesson, my only bass lesson, that I had with Jake about two years ago.

I was (still am) doing well with my bands as a sort of hired gun, albeit only 177 calibre, and I thought it was high time I upped my game, and deludedly (with hindsight), had pretensions to learn to read music a bit, and learn more theory, to see if it would propel me somewhat into learning more and being what I thought at the time was a PROPER musician. Well, most of the time we talked and discussed and I learned a LOT. then we had an hour of Jake teaching me some theory and the basics of reading music on the bass clef. We talked a little about the inner voice and Jake proceeded to sing and play exactly hat he was singing at the same time. Being desperate to demonstrate at least a little musicality, I did the same. I sang and played the same notes at the same time. Well now, Jake looked at me with a knowing smile and a twinkle in his eye and said, [b]"You were singing what you were playing, not playing what you were singing."[/b]

That, my friends, has been the single, most important musical lesson in my LIFE, by f***ing miles! Let that be the music lesson.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='999225' date='Oct 24 2010, 07:58 PM']Anyone else notice that when you get more than one bass player in a frame it starts to look like rehab for sex offenders?[/quote]

You might look like a sex offender but I'm not sure about the rest of us!

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Chris2112' post='999251' date='Oct 24 2010, 08:07 PM']You might look like a sex offender but I'm not sure about the rest of us![/quote]

I was referring to Kai Eckhardt and the other bloke, above.

And all the Bass Bash photos I've ever seen.

[endorka]

[quote name='Oscar South' post='998815' date='Oct 24 2010, 01:21 PM']Two albums for anyone who still has doubts to put them to rest:

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Bass-Could-Only-Talk/dp/B000025LOI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1287922767&sr=1-1"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/This-Bass-Could-On...2767&sr=1-1[/url][/quote]

"If This Bass Could Only Talk" by Stanley Clarke... wow... I thought I was the only person in the world who had heard of this! I bought this on tape in the early 90's, it is a great album indeed. Thanks for the link, think I'll order it on CD now :-)

Jennifer

[Oscar South]

[quote name='endorka' post='999595' date='Oct 25 2010, 01:05 AM']"If This Bass Could Only Talk" by Stanley Clarke... wow... I thought I was the only person in the world who had heard of this! I bought this on tape in the early 90's, it is a great album indeed. Thanks for the link, think I'll order it on CD now :-)

Jennifer[/quote]

Since there were only two in stock and looks like that's going to be down to one I figured I may as well pick up my own copy too, I've had it out of the library enough times now

Decision time.. do I pick up Live At The Greek in album form too..?? Two amazing Stanley Clarke CD's for £10 is a pretty good investment

Edited October 25, 2010 by Oscar South

[Doddy]

[quote name='arthurhenry' post='998802' date='Oct 24 2010, 01:04 PM']I'd like to see one where the virtuosos put their money where their mouths are and just held down the low end like they're always teling us to do, after they've unleashed a flurry of cutlery tray down the stairs type slapped 32nd notes. Sheehan steps up and plays sraight 8ths on one note for 4 bars, then Wooten hits a low E and holds it for the next 4, Steve Bailey plays Quarter notes for 4 bars and then Manring plays a root, 3rd, 5th walking line. No chance![/quote]
But when these guys get a chance to solo situation of course they aren't going to 'hold down the low end'. Guitar players don't just play the same
chordal pattern or riff and piano players don't continue to comp when it's time to solo-every instrumentalist cuts loose when they have the
chance.

[quote name='silddx' post='999057' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:27 PM']I'm appalled. Thanks for posting it ET, I have learned why I trust my ears, and why I ignore those who implore me to learn to sight read and learn theory.[/quote]
Sorry,but I think that's a spur of the moment,bullshit comment. Why ignore those who say you should learn theory and to read? It won't make
you play like Marcus,Victor or Stanley,and it won't make you play music you don't like.
Doesn't Scott Thunes put value on reading and theory?


[quote name='silddx' post='999087' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:58 PM']There is no James Brown, no Frank Zappa, no great composer to challenge them and utilise their technical talent. That video demonstrated such a lack of integrity in those musicians, such immaturity, that anyone who has true musical values and immense knowledge of theory would probably be ashamed.[/quote]
No there isn't a James Brown or Zappa there,but these guys have worked with enough people in the past that have,and do 'challenged them and
utilise their technical talent'. I just took that clip for what it was-an entertaining part of the live show. The SMV album actually has some
good music on it.

[quote name='silddx' post='999087' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:58 PM']If I had that level of talent, I know I would need to do something with it, but I wouldn't want to end up like that and I know it's possible I might and I would have to kill myself [/quote]
You wouldn't end up like that if you didn't want to. There are many technically and musically advanced players who are working in loads of
'non-chopsy' situations. You'd only 'end up like that' if you wanted to...which you don't.


[quote name='Oscar South' post='999613' date='Oct 25 2010, 02:34 AM']Decision time.. do I pick up Live At The Greek in album form too..?? Two amazing Stanley Clarke CD's for £10 is a pretty good investment[/quote]

Yeah,get it......It's possibly my favourite Stanley album.

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='silddx' post='998825' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:27 AM']Mmm, sorry to point this out, but there is a certain loftiness, a bitter arrogance in your post. You are not considering that others may feel differently and not aspire to the goals you have for the bass.[/quote]
[quote name='silddx' post='998845' date='Oct 24 2010, 05:41 AM']Oh man! That is absolutely unspeakable! Your mate bought that??[/quote]

[Vibrating G String]

[quote name='jakesbass' post='999119' date='Oct 24 2010, 10:26 AM']the bit I have highlighted is something I've been saying since the first MM solo album. (Bass solo that is 'the sun don't lie, he did a vocal soul album prior to that)
These guys are great players but lack the compositional ability of the guys they are usually sidemen for[/quote]
Marcus writes tons of stuff, the entire Miles Davis album Tutu for example.

[benebass]

[quote name='mep' post='999236' date='Oct 24 2010, 08:03 PM']In this months issue of BGM there is an article about their project Freebass. Their debut album [i][/i]It's A Beautiful Life[i][/i] was released on 20th September. Live dates will be announced, although Andy Rouke joining them due to his recent moe to New York. Check out www.freebassuk.com

You heard it here first! Watch this space, although there wont't be many of them with 3 bassists![/quote]

Unfortunately they've already split up! More news [url="http://www.neworderonline.com/News/News.aspx?NewsID=1448"]here[/url].

We actually caught one of their few gigs a few months ago. Andy Rourke didn't show up so Mani was playing bass in the traditional sense (i.e. down the bottom end) with Peter Hook doing what he usually does up top on a 6 string Shergold, which really worked in my opinion. There was still a lot of regular guitar going on so it wasn't a massive departure from stuff they've both done in the past.

Cheers,

B.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1000247' date='Oct 25 2010, 05:41 PM']But when these guys get a chance to solo situation of course they aren't going to 'hold down the low end'. Guitar players don't just play the same
chordal pattern or riff and piano players don't continue to comp when it's time to solo-every instrumentalist cuts loose when they have the
chance.


Sorry,but I think that's a spur of the moment,bullshit comment. Why ignore those who say you should learn theory and to read? It won't make
you play like Marcus,Victor or Stanley,and it won't make you play music you don't like.
Doesn't Scott Thunes put value on reading and theory?



No there isn't a James Brown or Zappa there,but these guys have worked with enough people in the past that have,and do 'challenged them and
utilise their technical talent'. I just took that clip for what it was-an entertaining part of the live show. The SMV album actually has some
good music on it.


You wouldn't end up li
ke that if you didn't want to. There are many technically and musically advanced players who are working in loads of
'non-chopsy' situations. You'd only 'end up like that' if you wanted to...which you don't.




Yeah,get it......It's possibly my favourite Stanley album.[/quote]
Right, I do not in any way denigrate or cast dark upon the wonderful opportunities that understanding theory and sight reading can afford. My point is that to compose great music is very different to simply recreating it. So many players now are being brought up with th notion they will be better "musicians" if they learn to read and learn classical four part harmony. Very good, but what if they have a limited musical mind? Sure they can do sessions and be a mechanic, but what if they think they can compose and put out an album of sh*t? The greatest thing missing in modern tuition is to enable mechanics to realise the potential to be composers or to know that can't be. Being able to manipulate paint in the way of Giotto does not make one an artist. The skill of the musician artist is to create something which is a true reflection of themselves or the songwriter they are serving. That depends upon developing a sense of self and in turn that requires a certain personality. Some people have it and recognise the tools they need and acquire them. Others are destined to be mechanics and acquire the skills they need to perform their function. All are a necessary part of music creation, but learning all that theory does not make anyone a composer in the way being able to read and write in your chosen language does not make them a worthwhile author or poet. It takes an immeasurable amount more than that. It takes an attitude to the world that you feel compelled to communicate. If you have that, then you will have an individual way of building your toolbox.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1000661' date='Oct 25 2010, 11:41 PM']Marcus writes tons of stuff, the entire Miles Davis album Tutu for example.[/quote]
I'm well aware of that, my point is that in my estimation the bass albums lack the compositional integrity of some of the better work those guys have been involved in. I'd go so far as to say that BECAUSE someone like Marcus did such great writing and producing work with guys like Miles and Luther that the pressure was there commercially to do a solo project which to my mind, I can see has merit and can be enjoyed by many, but for me personally rarely extends to the same point of some of the great music of the genre.

[Doddy]

[quote name='silddx' post='1000690' date='Oct 26 2010, 12:24 AM']Right, I do not in any way denigrate or cast dark upon the wonderful opportunities that understanding theory and sight reading can afford. My point is that to compose great music is very different to simply recreating it. So many players now are being brought up with th notion they will be better "musicians" if they learn to read and learn classical four part harmony. Very good, but what if they have a limited musical mind? Sure they can do sessions and be a mechanic, but what if they think they can compose and put out an album of sh*t? The greatest thing missing in modern tuition is to enable mechanics to realise the potential to be composers or to know that can't be. Being able to manipulate paint in the way of Giotto does not make one an artist. The skill of the musician artist is to create something which is a true reflection of themselves or the songwriter they are serving. That depends upon developing a sense of self and in turn that requires a certain personality. Some people have it and recognise the tools they need and acquire them. Others are destined to be mechanics and acquire the skills they need to perform their function. All are a necessary part of music creation, but learning all that theory does not make anyone a composer in the way being able to read and write in your chosen language does not make them a worthwhile author or poet. It takes an immeasurable amount more than that. It takes an attitude to the world that you feel compelled to communicate. If you have that, then you will have an individual way of building your toolbox.[/quote]

I get where you are coming from,but I think the main difference here is that we are looking at it from different angles. Sure,composition is
very important,but for me it is not the be all and end all. That particular SMV video was all about entertainment and having fun,and so that's
how I took it.I looked at it as three great players having fun,with some cool moments thrown in.
I do think that you knowing how to read and learning harmony will make you a better musician though,in the same way that being literate will help
you be a better songwriter. Being a good musician doesn't have anything to do with composition,and vice versa.Sure,there are people who can
do both very well,but there are probably even more who don't. Many great players just don't have the inspiration/ideas/interest in composing music,
but it doesn't lessen what they do as musicians.

[fretmeister]

This SMV one works nicely I think:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6cD3lQ7ZXA&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6cD3lQ7ZXA...feature=related[/url]

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='Vibrating G String' post='1000661' date='Oct 25 2010, 11:41 PM']Marcus writes tons of stuff, the entire Miles Davis album Tutu for example.[/quote]

Yeah but it's albums like that that put a whole generation off jazz and fusion. Kind of Blue it ain't.

[risingson]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1000723' date='Oct 26 2010, 02:19 AM']Yeah but it's albums like that that put a whole generation off jazz and fusion. Kind of Blue it ain't.[/quote]

I've got to say Miles's later output was pure trash, really clutching at straws. 'You're Under Arrest' made me want to cry. In fact I did a bit.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='fretmeister' post='1000721' date='Oct 26 2010, 02:10 AM']This SMV one works nicely I think:

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6cD3lQ7ZXA&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6cD3lQ7ZXA...feature=related[/url][/quote]

Amazing.