Bass Lessons

[Pete Academy]

Across the road from our shop is a music teaching school, where they do mainly drum, guitar and bass lessons. The drum and guitar teachers are busy, but the bass side is woefully quiet. I spoke to another guy who has a teaching school. Again, the bass side of things is poorly attended.

Why is this?

Is it because there isn't a bass 'icon' around at the moment, like (dare I mention) Flea, who the kids want to emulate?

Are the songs that bands are playing easy enough for people to master on their own?

Has the vast amount of tutorial material on the Web - Youtube in particular - killed off the need for lessons?

Any thoughts from bass teachers out there?

[skej21]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='942183' date='Sep 1 2010, 02:51 PM']Across the road from our shop is a music teaching school, where they do mainly drum, guitar and bass lessons. The drum and guitar teachers are busy, but the bass side is woefully quiet. I spoke to another guy who has a teaching school. Again, the bass side of things is poorly attended.

Why is this?

Is it because there isn't a bass 'icon' around at the moment, like (dare I mention) Flea, who the kids want to emulate?

Are the songs that bands are playing easy enough for people to master on their own?

Has the vast amount of tutorial material on the Web - Youtube in particular - killed off the need for lessons?

Any thoughts from bass teachers out there?[/quote]

Because when kids think of rock music and start to learn, guitar and drums are the cool instruments, bass is the boring one that the shittest guitarists play.

You don't really change your view until a little further down the line and realise that bass/drums are where it's at, and guitards are hated by all.

It's just a musical maturity thing really. Most kids think that you have to play guitar or drums to "wow" a big crowd. Most adults know better.

[Bilbo]

Noone seems to understand the concept of deferred gratification and the benefits of long term study any more. Its all 'want it, have it'. That and the fact that most kids never see a live musician until they think its too late to learn (i.e. after their 16th birthday). I have watched a couple of Glastonbury/Leeds/Reading acts over the last few days and the playing of most of them is pretty poor. No lessons needed to achieve the dizzy heights achieved by the Libertines' bass player .

[thisnameistaken]

Yeah it's not like you need heavy skills to play bass for 99% of bands anyway, so it would be a waste of effort/money for most people.

[skej21]

[quote name='Bilbo' post='942210' date='Sep 1 2010, 03:11 PM']Noone seems to understand the concept of deferred gratification and the benefits of long term study any more. Its all 'want it, have it'. That and the fact that most kids never see a live musician until they think its too late to learn (i.e. after their 16th birthday). I have watched a couple of Glastonbury/Leeds/Reading acts over the last few days and the playing of most of them is pretty poor. No lessons needed to achieve the dizzy heights achieved by the Libertines' bass player .[/quote]

+ 1 - Couldn't agree more. The standard of most "artists" these days comes down to how cool they look or if their hair cut is fashionable. Very few bands/performers can actually play to even an average standard these days.

On the plus side, history tells us that most musical genres/movements will create an opposing movement (for example, the anti-virtuosic guitar solos of the punk era, followed by the shred acts like Vai.)

Fingers crossed for 2011 and beyond!

[cheddatom]

Hmmm, I had guitar lessons for ages, and when I started on bass it was playing whatever the guitarist told me to. Then I got into real bassists and I feel like I took to playing the bass quite easily.

I could do with some lessons now as I realise how much i'm missing out on, but I can't afford them.

There are a lot of guitar teachers who also advertise bass lessons, and I would suspect that the majority of these aren't "real bassists".

[michael-faces]

I wanted to emulate Geddy Lee after seeing him on one of those guitar hero games about four years ago, on YYZ. But I think no one would want to play bass if they listen to something like punk, like loads of people do now.

[Dood]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='942223' date='Sep 1 2010, 03:20 PM']There are a lot of guitar teachers who also advertise bass lessons, and I would suspect that the majority of these aren't "real bassists".[/quote]


I fear this is a big part of the problem. Guitarists teaching Bass to me is akin to a harp player teaching piano.

As far as I am aware, there is/was just one 'proper' Bass teacher in Norwich. - I'd like to be proved otherwise - but I *hope* that when I start teaching in the area, Bass Players won't be put off by the fact that they *may* have been taught by tutors who haven't spent a considerable amount of time studying / playing the instrument they are actually teaching. I've been playing for over 20 years now.

[Bilbo]

To be fair, it can be frustrating finding teachers. I want a local arco teacher and can't find one that isn't an hour and an half's drive away minimum. Not a problem in itself but add £15+ in petrol to a £30 lesson and you really have to start thinking about affordability!!

[Pete Academy]

When I first started working in a larger music store I was surprised how the young guitar sales guys could play mainly chords and riffs, but not one could play lead guitar. I think the music of the era dominates what and how people learn. In the 80s everyone wanted to be Van Halen and Mark King etc.

Just a thought.

[Pete Academy]

[quote name='dood' post='942240' date='Sep 1 2010, 03:31 PM']I fear this is a big part of the problem. Guitarists teaching Bass to me is akin to a harp player teaching piano.

As far as I am aware, there is/was just one 'proper' Bass teacher in Norwich. - I'd like to be proved otherwise - but I *hope* that when I start teaching in the area, Bass Players won't be put off by the fact that they *may* have been taught by tutors who haven't spent a considerable amount of time studying / playing the instrument they are actually teaching. I've been playing for over 20 years now.[/quote]

I've seen the guitar teacher thing a lot, where he supplements his income by teaching bass as well.

[cheddatom]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='942299' date='Sep 1 2010, 04:13 PM']I've seen the guitar teacher thing a lot, where he supplements his income by teaching bass as well.[/quote]

Yeh I don't get it any more, but when I did the Sentinel used to have a few ads for guitar teachers in the classifieds, and most of them would advertise bass lessons as well.

[Doddy]

I used to teach at the place that Pete mentioned,and the recurring problem was that people didn't want to put any work into it and actually study-they come in wanting you to say how great they are and that's not going to happen. I had one lad turn up who'd been playing for 2 months and had a Stingray and an Ashdown head and 4x10 who could only play 5 'original' songs that his guitarist wrote and on one string.So,I advised him on his technique and gave him a few exercises,then never heard from him again. This was common at the school. Now I'm doing it privately,My students are more serious and willing to learn.

[skej21]

Let's start a FACKING REVOLUTION!

BASS TUTORS WHO TEACH GUITAR "ON THE SIDE"!!! ANYONE WITH ME?!

No... Ok, I'll get back to being angry about guitarists stealing all the students lol

*Shakes fist whilst staring out of the window and mumbling*

Edited September 1, 2010 by skej21

[Pete Academy]

Are there any other bass teachers on here that have noticed a decline?

[Colledge]

i'm seriously thinking of taking up bass lessons. Even though i've been playing about five years and i'm not a bad player, i don't know any theory at all and feel that this holds me back in terms of writing and improv.

[voxpop]

Ive just started having lessons after playing for over 10 years. It has been a real eye opener as to how much I do not know.

I wish I had done this years ago, going back to the basics has given me drive and conquered my fear, yes fear of having to look hard at what I was playing.

I feel like a school kid learning for my exams..................its very hard work but worth the effort and time.

[cameltoe]

I started getting lessons this year, and asked around for specifically 'BASS' teachers. I'd had a few guitar lessons in the past, helped me learn a few things, but the only bass teachers I could find either through local advertising or the internet were guitarists 'masquerading' as bass teachers. No good for me, I wanted advice on not only theory, but also technique, especially right hand technique, and using finger-style effectively.

Guitar teachers are fine for bass, if you just want to learn the basic theory side of things, but most guitarists I know can't play bass for sh*t and the frustrating thing is, they THINK they can! Even the way they hold the instrument looks wrong, and if they're not using a pick then their right hand usually resembles someone slapping a dead mackeral across the strings and sounds just as bad.

I did some studio work earlier this year, and it was always in the guitarists interest to chip in and tell me how to do stuff, even going so far as taking my bass off me to show me stuff. Needless to say, the amount of unnecessary noise generated by his playing would have made it unrecordable, but worse than that, he didn't seem to be paying any attention to what the drummer was doing. Eventually I had to tell him that the way he wanted to play it would have resulted in the bass not locking in with the drums, even clashing with the drums at points.

I think guitar teachers have the same attitude. 'Same instrument but easier' so I'll teach bass too.

Like f*** you will.

My bass teacher now is really good- he's younger than me, but he's really into his theory, plus he's an out and out bass player. He's currently learning double bass himself, so he's picking new stuff up all the time.

There's so much more to playing bass than meets the eye. Example? I like to watch MarloweDK on youtube and pick up a few cool fingerfunk riffs, etc. as do a few people on BC. I can usually figure out what he's playing fairly quickly, and can hit the right notes at the right time, but even then, 9 times out of 10 it doesn't sound ANYTHING like what he's doing! The subtle muting, and precise touch of an experienced bass player is not something that can be taught by someone who doesn't play bass.

[TKenrick]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='942485' date='Sep 1 2010, 07:02 PM']Are there any other bass teachers on here that have noticed a decline?[/quote]

I haven't really noticed a decline, more a lack of interest/awareness to begin with. The unfortunate situation is that kids who take an interest in being in a band and don't want to play drums (or whose parents want an instrument with a volume control) will generally take up the guitar. Most of my teaching involves peripatetic teaching in schools, and 99% of the time the resident guitar teacher will take on the few kids who want to learn bass - it saves the school hiring more staff, and most people don't understand what's wrong with a guitarist teaching bass...

Having said that, I'm in a fortunate position of working in a school where they do understand that guitar and bass are entirely different instruments. The demand for lessons is still small relative to other instruments - I have 1 full day of teaching, the guitar and drum teachers have at least 3 days each.

I think the fundamental problem is that the majority of people aren't really aware of what bass [i]is[/i] and the role it performs in a band situation. I've lost count of the number of times I've been met with a puzzled expression after answering the question 'what instrument do you play?'

[Doddy]

[quote name='Colledge' post='942500' date='Sep 1 2010, 07:13 PM']Even though i've been playing about five years and i'm not a bad player,[/quote]

The number of people that think this means that they don't need lessons is crazy-at least you're thinking of taking them.
I'm making a living from playing,and I still take occasional lessons. Players like Jeff Berlin and Mike Stern are still studying
music with a teacher.Back at the school,I once heard the boss say to a lad in a band that was rehearsing there,that he should
think about having some lessons from me because it would do him some good. His reply was there's no need because he played
guitar for a year before playing bass. Oh!!

There are a lot of people taking lessons in all instruments,but there is a definite tendency for players of guitar/bass/drums to
go to teachers who will offer them shortcuts. There are loads of teachers out there who's 'curriculum' consists of teaching
rock songs and licks week in-week out,using Tab,and copying parrot-fashion. To me,this is a big problem. If a student is
learning something like Violin or Trumpet,they learn the scales,they learn the notes on their instrument and on the stave,
they learn about music. A lot of guitar/bass/drum teachers don't have this knowledge to begin with,so end up teaching
licks that don't really mean all that much.A lot of guitar teachers who teach a bit of bass do this.
As far as students are concerned,it's all about instant gratification. It may take a few weeks to understand the notes on the
stave,but they can't be bothered to wait that long or work at it. The fact that it will benefit them for life if they choose is
irrelevant to them. Learning the minor pentatonic scale(for example) will let them play hundreds of songs and
licks,but that doesn't matter,they'd rather learn '...Teen Spirit' [u]now[/u]!!!! There are so many people who think that playing the intro
to 'Higher Ground',badly,makes them awesome,and they get offended if you point out any deficiency in their playing. If someone
is serious about it,they will listen and practise what you ask them,and they will study the basics and not just learn licks.

I don't know if it has anything to do with a lack of bass 'icons' or not. I do think that the combination of (for want of a better word)
lazy students and poor teachers has a lot to do with it.

[Pete Academy]

Good post, Doddy

[DaveB]

[quote name='Pete Academy' post='942299' date='Sep 1 2010, 04:13 PM']I've seen the guitar teacher thing a lot, where he supplements his income by teaching bass as well.[/quote]

I'm a teacher so I wonder how you'll all take my input here. Bass is my instrument, I picked it up a long time before guitar and had lessons off a teacher who taught bass on the side if you will. The basics of bass playing he taught me very well, I only really learned about "proper" bass playing when I reached music college. I have always and do play bass in my band.
Now i'm a teacher, it's abit of a sad state. I don't have any bass students any more (had literally one but she had to stop coming due to the distance she was travelling), all my students are guitarists. Kind of a good job I learned guitar as well about 2 or 3 years after bass.
In the town I live in there is one guy who just advertises just teaching bass, I simply cannot afford to do this as it is limiting my client base. I would love to just teach bass but there simply isn't the demand for it. I think everyone here has covered points well as to why that may be. I feel people feel abit negative towards player like Flea, why if he is encouraging people to pick the instrument up? Something which really annoys me though is these guitar hero games. I had a kid come to me telling me how good he was at the game etc and wanted to learn real guitar. Unfortunately because we weren't playing slayer or studio, sorry, dragon force by lesson 4 he stopped coming....tosser.

[oldslapper]

I advertise as a bass tutor, but I still get inquiries for guitar lessons.
I would say that, including the schools I teach in and private students, only 25% are bass students.
I have picked up a few bass students from lazy (guitar) teachers who have either gone down the "riff" road, or have insisted on sticking to their own preferred genre, or in one case used the student's playing to noodle to, in an attempt to impress.

One thing I do say to a new bass student is, if they take their instrument seriously, there's work out there.
But I agree, there are hundreds of wannabe guitarists who think that Guitar Hero is an instructional video. One lad brought his DS with GH to a lesson as he wanted my "help" to get it to the next level, so I put it on the top shelf.

Suffice to say he didn't bring it again.

I guess the bass player on the whole has been seen as the one "at the back", the "steady" one, and who wants to be a "steady Eddie" when you can be a retard geetard in a leotard?

[the_skezz]

My bass tuition comes down to my Dad teaching me Hawkwind's 'Master of the Universe' on bass

That said, can still improvise (what I consider) to be an alright bassline - generally it'll work with the song, and it's usually more complicated and and intricate than what the guitarist is playing. Not that that's a bad thing, it all works very well together. I wouldn't say that bass lessons are all that mandatory really, so much as a good ear and a will to better yourself.

[Doddy]

[quote name='the_skezz' post='942900' date='Sep 2 2010, 12:46 AM']I wouldn't say that bass lessons are all that mandatory really, so much as a good ear and a will to better yourself.[/quote]

They aren't mandatory,but if you do have 'a will to better yourself' you will improve better and faster with a good
teacher than on your own. If you want to improve that much,why wouldn't you seek out a good teacher and learn
everything that you can?