EBS_freak

Those Bose Line arrays are no potent enough for bass to use in a band environment... unless it's acoustic.

RE:TKS - they may sound nice with guitars - but they certainly aren't FRFR - and running the risk of having my head bitten off, neither is the BigTwin2. I honestly think that if you want a true FRFR, you are looking at having a cab with inbuilt DSP to make it flat... or at least having an external processing device pre your power amps to make the signal to your cab as flat response as it can.

This is one of the problems that I have with FRFR cabs in general - they appear to be very guitar focused - so I can expect them to be not very happy with them having the lows that you would normally out from a bass. This is why cabs like that cab I'm seemingly not allowed to mention (the one with the low crossover point and the super high quality drivers in an abs case) seem to fit the bill well, along with cabs like the Yamaha DXR15. I don't know anybody having experience of the FR800 as a FRFR for both guitar and bass... but it has been mentioned numerous times as being suitable for bass. How it would cope with guitars - I am interested in, as the HF horn is very important as to whether a FRFR with a guitar sound sharp or smooth. I see FRFR speakers for bass having the same requirement as PA. If you wouldn't run your bass hard through your, say, vocal PA speakers, without fear of them imploding, then you wouldn't want to use those speakers for the basis of a FRFR solution.

I am trying to - but I am not having somebody take pot shots at me without the right to reply.

Be careful of that back! I would suggest you go for a lighter weight option if you can. Don't be in a hurry to drill into you cabs - a dolly board with a tensioner strap will help you should you need to sell your gear at any point (to go lighter) - any mods could put off potential buyers. If you do need to mod your cab, the removable wheels are probably the best shout for minimal impact. Remember, if you mount the wheels on the bottom of the cabs, you will change the sound of them as the sound won't couple the same (which may or may not be preferable).

Boom. For the record, there are plenty of threads involving BF that I choose to say nothing in - why? Because I have zero interest in them - like a lot of other threads on the forum. This thread caught my interest, as it's regarding FRFR. As a Kemper user, I am keen to hear how the BF FR800 performs. In fact, if you look through the thread, I even stated that the OP should try and get one from BF to try. The thread took a different direction, as many threads do... and hence the conversations started. Again, bar the feet and handle thing, which is a bit of a forum in joke, just like Ashdowns catching fire... I think I have been very fair in the thread and I am confused as to where, again, apart from the handles and feet comments, seen where I have made derisory comments. If it would make you feel better, I could share the love and go on about how Sandberg file their frets too deep on the upper frets, or maybe how Status built me an crappy neck and refused to take responsibility for it... how about the fact that EBS have cheapened all their hardware and coverings to pinch pennies? These are all valid observations and as a potential customer, I am entitled to make such comments. I have never said that nobody should buy a BF. Nor would I ever. The marketing claims is not recent - the whole "2 of our speakers equals 1 of our competitors" has stood for a long time. That's just one example. I could continue. A similar conversation on BC debunked the 4ohm/8ohm switch on another popular cabinet - which was proven to be utter BS. If people make some hefty claims, they will be questioned. Similarly, if people make cabs, where the handles and feet fall off, they will be questioned. People did it for Skoda, Alfa and Lancia for being total rust buckets, why would any other product be immune? PS - you state that it was aimed at nobody in particular - and then said you were then aiming it me and several others. Well done Geoff. Slow clap.

Your games won't get a rise out of me.

I dunno, you did a fair bit of research when choosing your wireless...?

And if you're using a smooth hound, 8ms will be taken up by that alone.

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1495205813' post='3302162'] Haha, yes it was you, and im glad you didnt, im not sure this would have worked as well ;-) [attachment=245617:hondatiller800.jpg] [/quote] I dunno, the wheels make it easy to move...

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1495200910' post='3302106'] Based on advice on here last year my band went from someone old Peavey 1x15's and desk/power amp , to a pair of DB 750's. Amazing transformation and so lightweight. I can now carry both speakers at the same time, as opposed to struggling with one Peavey speaker for the past 14 years. Sound wise they are great. The low end has a nice tight kick to it. No issues with putting our kick drum and a bit of bass through them. In fact we did one gig where the whole band went through this PA and we got shouted at to turn down. We were very loud but not in a distorted indistinct way. We paid about £350 each for them and its the best investment the band has every had. [/quote] Was that me? I must have been having an off day. I meant to say FR800s :-p Glad they still working for you!

Passive/aggressive right there in your first paragraph. You couldn't make this stuff up. Maybe if people did more research into purchasing, then there would be more people happier with their gear?

Morning/afternoon Alex, thanks for your response. About is never a good word when it comes to specifications of a cab - when it comes to dB - to those not in the know, 136dB could be "about 130dB" - which we both know is a significant difference. Choose a figure and nail it the mast, so you are at least comparable to the other manufacturers. I'm aware of the "In terms of sonic performance and sheer output it's just like any top price pro touring 1x18"" statement you made - but in fact, the figures are quite comparable to most 1x18s, "pro touring" or not. In fact, given the price of the BF 18, its pretty comparable to other 18s in a similar price range - most of which would not be classed as "pro touring", but hey. The thing is, with the pressures of Far East pricing, the gap between semi-pro and pro, in terms of sound, is fast decreasing. I know where you are coming from - but I do feel that that 2x18 statement is very misleading. But you are absolutely right - I think that you could be on to something with this sub (mostly around the weight aspect of it) - hence my interest in it and many questions I have about it. Yes, I am concerned about the build of it - to achieve the lightness - but if it's rigid and performs, then yes, it's gonna be killer. I am also concerned about the 4 small ports and the chance of unwanted audible air movement. I am also concerned about the fact that the amp appears to be being discontinued - so where would that leave me, should I purchase any, should the amp die. You see? I'm not slagging anybody off - I'm trying to get my head around whether I should be buying these things.

"Handbags"

Gosh, I think it's you that has a problem with me! I also don't think Alex's cabs are magic - something we agree on. And I think you are missing the whole point of this conversation... and the science is to prove that despite the marketing, they are in fact, no different to anything else out there. (Handle and feet issues aside) - yes, they work for a whole host of people, due to their form factor and great, good for them. I don't like the fact they don't take a 19" rack without overhang... and as for weight, well, there's plenty of other cabs of a comparable weight - this thinking that BF are the only option for lightweight has long since been debunked. But you know what grinds my gears, I have to accept that there's people that like Barefaced - and that's fine - but then there's people who are very considered when it comes to gear - and if they dare question any specification, any design choice or literally anything in this case, I have a load of owners trying to start on me. If you don't think that is the case, look at your input to the thread and look at your actions right now. That is an unfortunate manner in my book. Re: I have never said that a FR800<>RCF 745. Never. Like above. Link me up. I don't think I have ever made any direct comparisons between the two as to say anybody should buy one over the other. The fact is, the 745 has drivers in it, which you wouldn't typically find in a PA cab for under at least £2000 a piece. Therefore, it would be ludicrous with anybody with the budget to not at least investigate them. RCF is both a PA manufacturer and speaker manufacturer with a lot of know how. They even own the company that make the amps now. Alex is an enthusiastic turned builder - with not even half the experience of these guys. And you may think I'm a RCF fan. No, not particularly - I've just done a lot of research to see which manufacturer is the best bang for buck... and yes, I think they rate very highly. Would they be my first choice of PA? No. But the costs of ownership of D&B and L'Acoustics in addition to the ability to move them, is not what I'm after. What I have commented on is the following - The voice coil sizes between the two cabs. The calculated specifications of the RCF compared to the Mackie SRM450 and the expected performance differences between the two. I've told somebody to listen to the RCF as they have a different top end to a lot of other PAs. The flat response of a RCF745 (and in this thread, it's suitability of a FRFR cab) The power amps of the two cabs. The resale prices of the two cabs. The aesthetics of the two cabs. I think the RCF is butt hurt ugly. I don't think that the FR800 is particularly attractive either. The sizes of the two cabs. I have questioned the crossover and amp setup in the FR800. I do believe you are making this into something that it isn't. If you ask Happy Jack nicely, there may be room on his hammock. PS - what I do know about you, is that I wouldn't trust you to fix an amp.... oh and I'm still waiting for the links.

[quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1495123391' post='3301487'] Although I'm waiting for the RCF745 intervention from the normal suspects :-) [/quote] I was going to say FR800s but I think I get the feeling that the budget isn't going to be there.

PS my standard 5 string bass (strung as standard with B -> G) goes lower than other manufacturers basses. Just so you know. Why? Cos I say so.

Ha - I was adding my pedantic remark as you responded. Seemed like I was able to second guess you. I'm not aware of max SPLs of any manufacturer being quoted in a 6dB range - link me up please. I don't have a problem with Alex. I think there is a big misconception here. I have a problem with misleading marketing and technobabble dressing up a product that is fundamentally no different to any other. As demonstrated before, and as I have mentioned above, I will call any manufacturer, Alex or otherwise, on stuff that I think is questionable. You have to admit, banding around that both your speakers and your cabs are equal to TWO of other manufacturers products is a big claim... and as such, should be validated appropriately. I couldn't care less about your experience of BF or Berg either. It tells me nothing about their performance - and I don't have any experience of you as a person to put any trust in your non tangible experiences with said products. This is not personal... it's just the same as not trusting a guy with my wallet who I've just met and don't know from Adam. Subs are nothing to do with FRFR cabs... but I think we both agree that the conversation has gone way beyond that... and it wasn't my doing. Call it the natural flow of a thread.

Err. What are you talking about? Do you not understand my response to Alex? Here's a clue. Even when he changes the measurement from continuous to max, the figures still don't add up. Here you go... let me change the challenge to go hand in hand with Alex's change in spec. OK, I'll open up a challenge - find me a commercially produced, powered 2x18 subwoofer, at any cost, that puts out circa 136dB max SPL. Don't just accept marketing spiel... validate it! I realise that the pedantic out there may say, well, most 2x18s will do 136dB - the point is, they will also do a hell of a lot more. Here's a clue for you - most 1x18s of a comparable price to the Barefaced are in the same region max SPL... and certainly not up to being compared to a 2x18 which are typically around 140dB.

Cool. Even best case though, 136dB is still not comparable to a typical 2x18. It is however, more in the ballpark of other 1x18s. PS - using the word "about", when talking specs isn't great either.

No pleasing some! OK, I'll open up a challenge - find me a commercially produced, powered 2x18 subwoofer, at any cost, that puts out circa 130dB max SPL. Don't just accept marketing spiel... validate it!

Of course, what you should be asking me is if my design was intended to be used on - or off - axis... because 99% of the surrounding facial hair may not be in the cutting line.

Are you stealing my designs?!

Ha ha. One thing I did recall is that it was less than 200 bhp. Not bad for 6.75 V8 lump!

Those old Rollers were hardly sufficient when fully laden and going up a 1:3. It's a true story - I thought I would have to get out and push the old girl up that hill.