LawrenceH

[quote name='PlungerModerno' timestamp='1340890776' post='1711116'] Any bass or guitar cab / amp manufacturer worth their salt knows many bands, and individuals use effects and mixes that rely on pretty much studio monitor flatness for best results. Much more commonly they will change needs over time.... and rather than 6 different rigs over time, 1 fully capable rig would be a better idea, especially because it can be used again and refurbished.... Something tells me the best cabs of today will be rocking for a long time! [/quote] It could be argued that there's already a product market catering to their needs complete with far more comprehensive available specs, under the label 'sound reinforcement'. Also bear in mind that getting a sufficient understanding of the specs that contribute to good subjective sound quality requires considerable effort on the part of the end user, which is partly why there are professional sound engineers/technicians to run rigs rather than musicians. Why bother going to the (considerable) expense involved in proper testing when a majority of bassists will probably misinterpret the specs anyway? A worst case is that manufacturers start focusing on a particular, easy to interpret spec like frequency response combined with max SPL that actually tells you rather little about the subjective capabilities of the cabs. People start focusing on the spec, manufacturers focus on getting that spec to look good at the cost of another aspect of the cab and the products end up worse not better!

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1340727717' post='1708722'] Good point mate, although in my opinion, the real functional limitations of the iPod stem from iTunes more than anything else, awful awful awful bit of software Eude [/quote] <From a bassist's perspective the mis-specified output capacitor that rolls off bass when used with headphones is pretty poor too, took me a while to figure out why it sounded so bad compared to my older Sony with the same headphones!> But I find the jog wheel interface or the touchscreens are terrible pieces of 'form over function' design because you can't skip through tracks without getting the device out as there is no tactile feedback. If you're visually impaired, and given the size of them this applies to anyone over the age of 50 who's not wearing reading glasses, the Apple device is really tricky to use. Again my old Sony had better a design that had more tactile feedback or what used to be called 'buttons', alongside a nifty spring-loaded 'skip' wheel. Gareth, obviously I'm not saying you're wrong as clearly the ipod suits a lot of people, but my point was that people have in many cases unconsciously adapted to make themselves suit it rather than the other way round, but that 'rightness' of the user friendliness is very far from universal! [quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1340728204' post='1708730'] It is limited, but the one thing I like with Apple and the iPod and iPhone is just how SLICK it all works. Despite the fact there are more powerful mp3 players and phones out there, Apple just works right for me. The user friendliness is right. Yes, some of the more 'aesthetically pleasing' cabinets/amps WILL no doubt fall flat against a well engineered version, BUT, there is no problem in having good engineering and good aesthetics. Aguilar, again, is one of them. I have yet to find a 2x12/1x12 I like as much as the DB112/212. I've tried as much as possible, but nope, the DB cabs win so far. [/quote] Aguilar cabs have a nice aesthetic and are solidly designed though it's not 'my' sound. If I were to nitpick with the DBs, I'd say that making them rotatable so that you could optionally get the drivers up closer to your ears and take up a smaller footprint when using a 'micro' cab would be an improvement. But it's a minor quibble and I like the tolex/grille look, not a million miles away from my own build: [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/161271-oh-no-another-lightweight-speaker-cabinet-build/page__view__findpost__p__1670397"]http://basschat.co.u...ost__p__1670397[/url] The shelf port on mine you could argue deteriorates from the aesthetic, but it is a better solution with higher excursion drivers and there is no getting away from that. If I were a commercial cab builder I would offer two versions of a cab, one optimised for weight/price/performance ratio for someone who just wants a high quality workhorse cab, and one with a bit more of a 'boutique' look at about £50 more. It'd perform the same but be heavier and probably require a bit more babying to keep looking pristine, but that's ok because I'd sell matching padded-tolex-type cab bags for another £60 or so!

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1340697226' post='1708114'] A total aside here, but everyone seems to be blind to what influenced the iPod, and many other "unique" Apple products, and it bugs me a lot, having studied product design for my undergraduate degree. If you flick through Braun's 60's product catalogues, you'll see that not all of Ive's designs are original, but very clever reinterpretations of, or at least homages to a lot of Braun's work. I wouldn't believe for a second that Ive would have gone out to copy anything, but clearly he studied a lot of Braun's work and it reads as the main if not the only influence in his design >> [url="http://gizmodo.com/343641/1960s-braun-products-hold-the-secrets-to-apples-future"]http://gizmodo.com/3...o-apples-future[/url] </aside> [/quote] iPod's an interesting example though because its design aesthetic contributes to clear functional limitations but people like the aesthetic enough to work within them even to the point that they don't really notice the limitations. Sounds rather familiar to the world of bass cabs...

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1340714880' post='1708439'] the whole thing does have implications for a few decisions. i.e. if I have a 300w 8ohm cab (say, a GS112), would that be enough to handle a 500w RMS amp @ 8ohms ? acknowledging that there will be peaks and boosting the lower frequencies may put a GS112 under strain. However, in general, would that be a reasonable idea ? [/quote] This is why speaker 'programme' ratings are usually around double that for the 'rms'. The rms handling is a thermal limit and programme music rarely matches it in terms of duty cycle so there is more cooling time. But using compression (either with a compressor or eg valve saturation) increases the duty cycle and eats into this thermal 'headroom'. Running speakers closer to their thermal limits for extended periods also increases power compression so you lose output efficiency. An additional factor that's not often mentioned is that the driver voicecoil typically relies on the magnet as a heatsink. If you pump in a lot of bass such that the speaker is being driven beyond xmax the voicecoil starts to leave the gap and cooling gets drastically less efficient, reducing the thermal power handling dramatically. I suspect that thermal failures above xmax account for more driver failures than people realise, as opposed to mechanical overexcursion per se (I've definitely seen thermal failure on woofer PA cones whatever others may say) If you play with lots of dynamics then an amp with huge clean headroom into lower rated speakers is going to be fine provided you don't overexcurse. If you push closer to limits then it is a problem. At a given volume higher rated speakers should show reduced power compression as well (ie a 500 watt rms speaker driven at 300 watts will behave better than a 300 watt rms speaker). Lower power handling generally means a shorter voicecoil, so a lighter and more efficient driver. But since high excursion drivers necessary for good bass reproduction generally use longer voicecoils, you get the increased thermal handling as a welcome side-effect. There is no harm in driving a woofer that can take 500 watts with only 300 watts, 'underpowering' woofers is a myth.

Glad to see this worked! As I said on the other thread, not how I'd have done it based on my own tests (in particular the 'knuckle test' Bill mentioned, where like-for-like I found spline braces more effective in smallish cabs), but with that amount in there it has to be a LOT more rigid than before. Looks great by the way! Can I ask what you've used for piping?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1340621871' post='1707007'] We buy with our eyes, which is understandable, but in this case we should be buying with our ears. On the other hand, I'm also vain enough to agree that it is nice to stand in front of good looking gear. [/quote] I'd agree - but also I think probably the target market for eg the Thunderchild stuff has a different aesthetic, the people buying it will tend to pride themselves on their understanding of what goes into a good cab and, for example, the visually prominent CD horns are a big part of what they're selling. Niche markets in the US are big enough over there to make it far more viable! Meanwhile the Maplin-esque round grille is actually the most weight-efficient (and space efficient since you don't need to recess the baffle) way of thoroughly protecting the driver. Stronger than an equivalent flat grille too.

Otherwise a y-splitter lead from single mono jack to twin will probably work, depending on input/output impedances involved and the output level/input sensitivity of your particular equipment

You can mute a note but it's very tricky to get a natural sounding, gradual cutoff. I'd suggest a relatively rapid, smooth decay is suited to a lot of genres and personally I [i]can[/i] have too much sustain. Having said that, I've never chosen an instrument based on sustain! Though dead spots are a pain.

Heard a fretless jazz (passive) with Bartolinis recently. I'm not a fan of them usually but the bridge pickup sound was as good as any I've heard: warm, thick and articulate. Was being used in the context of a heavy balkan/ska band and it worked really well, but would have been equally good for jazz.

heheh it's got a badass

So come on, own up, who is it in Edinburgh that hates all mid frequencies?

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1340297044' post='1702528'] Those graphic equalisers on those amps (Trace Elliot, Peaveys...) that you often find in rehearsal spaces tell some amazing stories, when you walk in and find what the previous band was using [/quote] YES! Pre-shape/contour buttons pressed in then graphics at smiley face, and lows boosted, all at once with a crazy dose of compression to boot so the signal is getting utterly mutilated...add in a sub-octaver if it's an Ashdown for the icing on the cake. I think we must've used the same rehearsal spaces, but it's not me who leaves the amps set up like that

Main advantage of an (EDIT) ONBOARD (/EDIT) preamp IMO is that it provides consistency of tone with different lengths and types of guitar cable, by buffering the pickups to give a low impedance output. Cable capacitance can shift the resonant peak, which plays a big part in a pickup's character, by quite a lot. Use a long twisty versus short straight cable and you'll really hear it. The Audere unit seems to offer great flexibility here not only with the z mode impedence switching but also, what's more overlooked, by allowing you to alter capacitance loading on the pickups so you can shift the peak to where you like it best and keep it there.

I'm one of the people that hated the Terror bass when I tried it in a shop, on every gain setting it sounded like a dull grungy fuzz-box of death. But, I was trying it as part of the combo so the speakers might have contributed to the incredible dull awfulness. Talk of changing the valves for a cleaner sound intrigues me though...does anyone know anything about the preamp circuit in these? Specifically, whether the valves are run in starved plate mode or at a decent voltage? As I've mentioned on a thread about the MB Fusion I'm interested in an amp that can do that 'proper' high voltage valve pre shimmery top end. Has anyone managed to get that with this amp?

I agree with what has been said, borrow or hire and you'll find out what works. Also bear in mind that outdoors sound just gets lost so even PA tops that'll do a decent sized hall won't seem very loud at all!

If the speakon is going to be junked anyway you could always solder the wire into the speakon rather than rely on the screw? heat from the screw access point, flood with solder, drop the wire in. Bit of a bodge but should work ok.

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1340183581' post='1700409'] Basically then, you are saying nothing at all. You are leaving this discussion because you don't seem to be able to articulate any sound reasoning. [/quote] Pot, meet kettle. In the single post you've quoted he is saying that while piracy might be wrong, many of the arguments against piracy based on a particular idea of cause and effect don't, in practice, work like that. If I say murder is wrong I am correct. If I say one reason murder is wrong is that it always has a negative effect on the stock market then my argument has disregarded cause and effect and is a s&*t argument regardless of whether murder is actually wrong. Plus why keep calling it 'theft' when the law specifically distinguishes between actual theft (physical object) and copyright infringement (unauthorised appropriation/distribution of intellectual property?). Copyright infringement IS wrong, but if the prosecutions used the arguments on here then the defence would be laughing all the way to the bank! I agree with what others have said that changing the business model is the realistic solution. Personally I know only 2 or 3 pro musicians whose income comes from recording/composing work, and I know many many more whose income comes from live performance. I also am not going to lose sleep at night if the major label chart-based music industry collapses, music and the music industry are very different things.

The music business models are rubbish partly because our whole economic system is still in transition from a system of physical commodity exchange to a system where information is the dominant commodity. Information was exchanged before before but the scale now is so much greater cos the exchange network is so much bigger and more intricate. You can't treat information like it's a discrete physical object and expect it to behave, they have fundamentally different properties. Luckily music isn't primarily a product of economics, but like economics itself it's a product of culture, and very luckily indeed the music industry and music aren't the same thing

Legally speaking, how can it be stealing if there is no 'object' missing at the end? That's not to say whether it's right or wrong but surely the law DOES distinguish between copyright infringement through illegal duplication and theft? If you take an album from a shop they lose the physical copy of the album that they've already paid for. If you illegally download, they may or may not lose a sale but they still retain the physical object. Information and material goods are not the same thing even if taking either can have negative consequences.

Has anyone tried using meths with coated strings? I've got some DR Black Beauties that could do with a refresher. Was originally thinking acetone but I'm a bit concerned the coating might dissolve!

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1340035983' post='1698024'] I agree, absolutely. I think some people worry that "traditional" music is under threat from these new fangled 12 string basses or whatever. I couldn't agree less with that myself; you still have people playing concertos from 1756 in their orchestras. There is no reason you can't choose to play bass in the "traditional" way (IE the 1950s sort of way) but equally, there are going to be people who want to push the boundaries. [/quote] I like that something that was new and controversial in the 1950s is now venerable enough to be 'traditional'. I wonder if old rockers who say 'slap is not proper bass playing' see the irony? Picks, can't be doing with them myself but I do like the sound Carol Kaye gets on Pet Sounds a lot, the pick attack really contributes to the overall production. Don't like bad, guitar-style pick playing, all muddy and with poor muting ie the kind you get at jam nights where there are 700 guitarists and not enough bassists.

I always assumed the name WAS a tongue-in-cheek ref to Father Ted's priestchat! I definitely laugh at myself for using this site so much but so what? The internet is +++AWESOME+++ for people with obscure hobbies and borderline obsessive natures, and IMO those people rock.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1340042519' post='1698187'] How can it be 'all original' with that bloody great bridge hole in it?? [/quote] Simples - it was originally the body of a Fender bass!

Hi Andy, Since you can't run winISD I thought I'd have a look at some options myself. I've tried to do this in a way that is as relevant to your particular set-up as possible. I looked at the Eminence offerings and the Celestion Orange (4 ohm variants), then a couple of Faital drivers that looked likely and also come in 4 ohm versions, this assumes you would like a 1-cab solution that maximises output/headroom from the Hypex module. So, settings were 75l sealed cab, and total power into each driver for the max spl charts was based on 240w for 8 ohm drivers and 400w for 4 ohm variants to match the output of that hypex module, with the exception of the BN12-300S which I set at 300 watts (thermal limit). This obviously favours the 4 ohm variants but that seems reasonable given my understanding of your set-up. Cone excursion chart was set at 240w for all drivers I looked at regardless of power handling. Drivers: Em Kappalite 3015 - light blue Em Kappalite 3012HO - mid blue Em Kappalite 3012LF - dark blue Em Deltalite 2512 II - violet Celestion BN15-400S (4 ohm) - white Faital 15PR400 (4 ohm) - red Celestion BN12-300 (4 ohm) - yellow Faital 12FH500 (4 ohm) - orange First up, transfer function which shows that even the drivers with large Vas have less than 1dB mid-bass 'hump' in this set-up, so I personally would have no problem with a 15" driver in this application: [attachment=110661:Trans func mag for 75 sealed.jpg] Next sensitivity @ 1W/m for all drivers. Clear advantage for the 15s, though the 3012LF more or less keeps up below 60Hz [attachment=110662:SPL 1W@1M for 75 sealed.jpg] Cone excursion @ 240w, which related to xmax tells you about low frequency output capability before distortion. This gets inherently innacurate above xmax since the voice coil is leaving the magnet gap so it should be harder to reach xlim than it looks. Behaviour beyond xmax is generally not well-specified but subjectively some drivers do better than others! Nice thing about a sealed cab is you don't get unloading below port resonance so subsonics from things like string-thump aren't such an issue. Still worth building a subsonic filter into your pre-amp to gain headroom IMO! [attachment=110667:Cone excursion for 75 sealed @ 240W.jpg] The last graph relates to this one, max spl (400w/240w limit as mentioned). To level the playing field I've used a similar estimate for xmax for the celestions as other manufacturers (rather than Celestion's much more conservative ratings), adding on Hg/4 so for the BN15-400X you get 4.5mm rather than 2.5: [attachment=110668:Max SPL for 75 sealed.jpg] So you should get more overall output from the 15s, with the 15PR400 the overall 'winner' thanks to it being able to take full advantage of the hypex module. Though if you were able to power each driver to its maximum thermal rating then the kappalite 3015 would deliver the loudest clean broad spectrum spl. These programs are only useful up to ~200 or 300 Hz, above which point you should look at the freq response chart from the manufacturers and it becomes a matter of tonal preference - if you have a graphic or parametric EQ that can be really handy over decent headphones for roughly simulating how a particular driver might sound. Personally I'd probably choose the 15PR400, or the BN15-400S if I wanted really light weight. You may prefer the tonal profile of the Eminence drivers, note that the 3015 is the 'politest' of these and I'd say probably be most suited to jazz.

Beyma make serious speakers, usually with a price tag to match! I'm sure they'd sound clean and great [quote name='Balcro' timestamp='1339886924' post='1696029'] I must agree with LawrenceH about the Celestion. It is the weakest link. I ran it through winISD this morning and it exceeded xMax with an 80 watt input! I double checked Celestion's units and t/s parameters and they went into winISd without an error prompt. [/quote] Actually Xmax is a slippery spec... if Celestion used the same formulae for xmax as (say) Beyma, 18Sound, Faital or others then the figure on the spec sheet would be 2mm bigger and look far more respectable! There are other posts about this but it's basically to do with how much of the voicecoil can move outside the magnetic gap before it starts to give a noticeably non-linear response. The key problem being how you define 'noticeable'. I wouldn't rule it out on that basis though there are obviously others which manage more. Things like power compression, distortion and off-axis response are important but the problem is they don't often publish that data, and you might expect a high-end cast frame PA driver to outperform a pressed steel musical instrument speaker. Whether you like the sound though is another matter!