Phil Starr

You need to know the ohms of your cabs. They are more important than the wattage. If they are both the same impedance (ohms) they will share the power evenly. If not the power will take the line of least resistance and go mainly through the cab with the lowest ohms. If both cabs are 4ohms than you can only use one at a time with the majority of heads anyway. More when you come back with the ohmage.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1481749328' post='3194902'] Try to swallow the resentment and part as friends. [/quote] This, I understand how you feel, you have clearly committed to this in a big way both in terms of effort but also emotionally. You believed you were a team and had each other's backs. You've found out that other people don't share your sense of loyalty, that some are incredibly self centred. Perhaps it is time for you to have a think about what you can get out of this. Firstly it would help you if the artist and the team would go around talking positively about the work you did. If it is to be released then you'd like thanks on any sleeve notes or publicity at the least if not an actual credit for production. If you ever work for them again you'd like to be paid for any future work if not for this. If things don't work out for the singer the way he expects then would you work for them again. If you can imagine any situation which would tempt you then why piss them off. You've behaved well and were sensible enough to put your studies first. Hold your head high, salvage what you can and move on. Next time you know what to expect and you can make sure you get agreements up front.

[quote name='Passinwind' timestamp='1481450162' post='3192299'] There was a long and sometimes contentious thread on Talkbass several years ago where many bases were tested with an eye toward spectral distributions. It's archived in the Amps Forum FAQ: [url="https://www.talkbass.com/threads/bass-frequency-waterfall-plots-what-they-mean-to-rigs.510749/"]https://www.talkbass...to-rigs.510749/[/url] In any case, boosting the fundamental in the way you mention most likely won't take that hypothetical 25% number to 100%, because the overtones still all have energy and therefore have to take up part of that 100% ceiling, and depending on what note you are looking at the bass control may well be boosting the first overtone or two just as or nearly as much as the fundamental. I'll be happy to illustrate this with an actual measured example or two when you start your new thread if you like. I don't do DIY speaker cabs any more myself, but I still enjoy doing the math. [/quote] I'll have a look at that thread later, thanks. OK guilty as charged I over simplified my argument to make it clear to the OP. Percentage of what? Obviously not of sound as stated, what I should have said was if the speaker was making 25% of the allowable excursion with the tone control flat then it would probably be doing 100% of the allowable excursion with the sort of bass boost he was applying. Tone controls are tricky things, there are a lot of different circuits used to control tone. Passinwind will vouch for that. A lot of tone controls are still based on the traditional Baxendall design. The trouble is this circuit will boost sound most the further you get away from it's first frequency of action, extreme bass is boosted more than upper bass. http://www.learnabout-electronics.org/Amplifiers/amplifiers42.php This means that when you boost bass to get a bit more warmth the subsonics are boosted even more than the bit you are interested in. Turning the bass control to 3 o'clock as the OP did is hardly extreme, but he may well have ended pumping four times as much power as he thought into his speakers. I want to help him get good results and to understand what may have happened but most of all I want to be able to offer the best possible advice to people who build these speakers. It's hard to explain situations where there are many variables in simple ways to the non-techy reader. Let's hope that when it gets back it is working as Blue Aran say it is.

There's only one answer to this. I'm as loud as the rest of the band. In practice that means being as loud as the drums.

I have the same problem, most of us do I suspect. We all want to be just a little louder than everyone else. Fortunately the laws of physics are on our side here. A small speaker close to us can be much louder than a bigger one further away, I suppose in ears are the most extreme version of that but a personal monitor like the B205D does the job nicely too. The trick of doing it without anyone else hearing is to get it as close to your ears as possible. As a bassist you'll usually be at one side so I just put it on the outside pointing straight at my ears. I've used the Behringer, I tried it against the Mackie and there was little difference I found, since then I've moved on to use the TC voicesolo which sounds better and is light enough to clip to your mic stand. Where the Behringer scores though is that the voicesolo is more prone to feedback simply because it has more frequencies than the Behringer. If you play at very high stage levels the Behringer works well. Studiospares do a Behringer clone which is even cheaper, I've not tried it but it is a clone of a clone and may be as similar to the B205 as it is to the Mackie.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1481377455' post='3191852'] why don't they put a HPF as standard on bass amps? [/quote] Just about all amps, bass or otherwise, have a low frequency cut off. Within the preamp stages capacitors are often used to link the signal and these act as filters for bass. That's not universal though. Even if it isn't an inherent part of the design putting in an HPF should really be standard and you could always make it switchable. Building it in would cost pence as opposed to an expensive add on. With the bass control at 3 o'clock you could be applying 1/4 to 1/2 bass boost. Assuming you have 12dB of boost available every 3dB of boost will double the power and the speaker excursion so that could be the problem, it is certainly taking the speaker right up to it's limits. As the idiot who did most of the design I worked on the assumption that the fundamental makes up only about 25% of the signal from the bass. I used the only information I had to hand which was from some testing TKS were generous enough to share. It's impossible for any designer to have control over how their design will be used but if 6dB of bass boost (much less than doubling the amount of bass subjectively) was used then that 25% assumption means 100% and I'd have to assume the speaker was working right up against its limits for considerable amounts of time. I've never claimed this as a 350W speaker. Beyma give out the figure of 350W thermal but that involves a test signal which is constant but with bass and treble filtered according to AES specs. I used 300W max in all my calculations. All ported cabs suffer from this problem and all commercial designs could be damaged in this way. I suppose this should be more widely shared on BC. I'll start a new thread next week, not everyone will be interested in the Beyma.

Did it click at all power levels or just at high powers?

There's three things to consider, will you like the sound? it's going to be cleaner than a bass amp, not everyone likes that. will there be enough bass? If the cab is too small or the bass driver limited in excursion it could wimp out at high bass levels. Will it survive the treatment? Related to the above it will depend upon how much bass you call upon it to give. Quality PA units will be fine as the bass drivers will be designed to take the bass. So will any with DSP built in, which will protect the speaker by turning down your peaks for you.

Hi John, I'm confused too. In your original post you said the driver was blown, which i took to mean completely non functional. Blue Aran are saying it is perfectly OK. What was the original fault exactly? If it was making no sound at all was it potentially a wiring fault? maybe even a dodgy speaker lead/plug/socket. If Blue Aran return it and it works than that is a bit strange but you will have a working driver. Their answers to you have been over aggressive/ill informed but I find it hard to believe they would say it is working if it isn't at all.

[quote name='ROConnell' timestamp='1481107570' post='3189700'] As long as you're in a room with decent acoustics and hearing protection I don't see the problem with playing loud, it's amateurish if the whole band thinks turning up will solve everything, but if you're a group who all know where your instrument sits in the frequencies and you e.q right I don't see a problem with turning up and having a blast, if you take the time to set up properly you should be able to hear most clearly. This depends all on the room and what equipment you have available though. [/quote] This is just technically wrong. All hearing protection is frequency dependant, it filters some sounds more than others. Some aren't bad, but the ears work better without them. High sound levels cause changes in our middle ear which reduce the energy passing to the inner ear to avoid permanent damage. That means you lose a lot of detail at high sound levels. You might get by at rehearsals with ear protection or be able to cope with high levels but you simply won't hear as well as you would at lower levels.

What colour is the lacquer? I have a Japanese Thunderbird that had four nasty chips. I'd tried nail varnish on an earlier bass but ended up using superglue which is slightly harder. Both work well but you can build the super glue up more quickly. To match the colour I used spirit based felt tip pens blending the colours until it was matching in colour slightly darker than the surrounding lacquer. Build the superglue up in layers until it is slightly higher than the surrounding lacquer. I masked off with sellotape so the extra was sellotape thickness. I then smoothed back the imperfections with a razor blade again using sellotape on the blade to avoid scratching the surrounding good finish, then used wet and dry glued to a flat piece of wood reducing the grade from 300 down to 2000 gradually before polishing with some pro car cutting compound a mate had handy. Slightly finer than T-cut. I cant see the joins though I didn't quite get a perfect colour match. Stewmac have a video on you tube showing how to do it.

[quote name='bigd1' timestamp='1480934123' post='3188089'] Fantastic playing if that is your thing, although a little dated. I may be wrong but, isn't Moonlight Sonata about the night, quite time of the day, a time to relax. This version seems a little heavy for my idea of a "Sonata" but that is just me. [/quote] The title Moonlight Sonata wasn't Beethoven's. I once read that is was written because he had an unrequited crush on one of his pupils, to whom it is dedicated. He wasn't commissioned to write it either which is interesting. It has a terrible beauty to me moving on to a rather disturbed and agitated passion, terribly sad and shading into madness. He broke the rules of the classical sonata in writing it that way with the build up towards the end. I'm not sure I'd ever listen to the guitarist playing it again, just pointing out the virtuosity in one of her party pieces.

Hi John, I need to get off and do some work so I'll revisit this later, there's a lot of information here. It looks like your SM212 is still working, so that is good. If that is the case then Blue Aran are right, it isn't worth cutting it open. I'd thought it had stopped working. All the guff about winISD is disappointing. I've seen the same nonsense when Skidder blew his Eminence 3015 Kappalite a few years back. Win ISD just uses Small's equations to describe the cone movements, they can't seriously be arguing that the science is all wrong. The stuff about not being suitable for bass but for PA is also nonsense. What do they think goes through a PA? Clearly they are denying the possibility of using a bass through PA or the existence of bass in recorded music! They are also wrong about the SM212, it is a general purpose driver, Beyma also make the SM112 which is the dedicated PA bass driver. In their English language material they do not talk much about applications and neither critically do Blue Aran. In any case the physics don't lie. They do have a case however about using a bass without a HPF. It's something we have mentioned and true of most commercial units too, in fact it's an issue with all ported cabs and not much discussed. At 40Hz and 300W your cab will not exceed 13.5 mm excursion. At 30Hz and 300/w it will, the speaker isn't indestructible. In any case you shouldn't use the speaker beyond xmax for extended periods and the 13.5mm figure really is an absolute limit. The 25% figure comes from TKS I think and is a good rule of thumb, it doesn't mean you personally use your bass in exactly that way. I'm concerned about Blue Aran's attitude, which may be down to one over zealous employee of course. I think they are trying to browbeat you, and not engaging helpfully, and this is the second time I have seen this. You may well have been using the speaker outside of the parameters of safe operation, we may never know exactly. They may have good grounds for saying that it isn't their responsibility but some of their assertions are untrue and their tone is certainly aggressive and unhelpful. Last time they came on here and did engage a little. It would be useful to know if they are a company with the highest standards we can recommend. I need to go back and look at all of your details. I feel a little responsible for this and if necessary I might need to tweak the design or add some more advice to stop it happening to anyone else.

It's hard to say without more information. It squeals when turned up. Does it do this when there is no signal which would indicate damage to the amp inside, or when you are playing music(not bass) through it. Does it play music when you have it turned down but distorts when you turn up? That would indicate the amp is probably working OK but something mechanical has gone wrong with the speaker.

I share your position at the bottom of a big scary mountain that needs climbing, this is a thread I'm going to follow. Just a little personal insight which is going to make the mountain twice as high, it isn't all about notes, have a look at this and see what you think. I'll never look down my nose at Britney and Pitbull again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtZ74JdxCt0

I was aware of that as I was writing. Then I thought that actually reading is the ultimate skill that makes it possible to unlock a lot of 'theory'. I don't think you can really separate a good grasp of theory from reading I gather little bits of theory when I can, it all comes in useful but I still feel like a blind man. For example I've only recently started looking at the theory behind rhythm. As a bass player the little dotted squiggles, the timing of the notes and the bar lines should have been what I looked at, not being so dazzled by the notes alone. I've been looking at the letters not the words. How the hell do I get better without a proper grasp of what note length really is, and how do I do that efficiently without being able to read and write? As a drummer you must be smiling now.

[size=4][color=#545454][font=arial, sans-serif]"Any technology, no matter how primitive, is [/font][/color][color=#6A6A6A][font=arial, sans-serif][b]magic[/b][/font][/color][color=#545454][font=arial, sans-serif] to those who [/font][/color][color=#6A6A6A][font=arial, sans-serif][b]don't understand[/b][/font][/color][color=#545454][font=arial, sans-serif] it" Arthur C Clarke[/font][/color] [color=#545454][font=arial, sans-serif]Our old keyboard player, classically trained, could listen to any song pretty much that we were learning just once and could then play it both hands, so effectively bassline, melody and chords all learned in real time. That seemed magic to me, and if I'm honest still does. I kind of know what she was doing, most pop songs use four chords and the melody will come from the scale tones etc but I can't do that. She has music theory and I don't.[/font][/color] [color=#545454][font=arial, sans-serif]Without music theory we are like a story teller who cannot read. Reading means we can talk to each other across space and time, we can talk to everyone who has ever written anything in a language we understand. Writing means we can swap ideas with other people and share ideas. Why would anyone think that exposure to the whole of English Literature would stifle their creativity?[/font][/color] [color=#545454][font=arial, sans-serif]I still painfully learn every song by rote. I don't reject theory I hunger for it, like the OP I wish I knew where to start. Personally I'm ashamed of not being able to read music. I know even a little more knowledge would unlock the musical place I'm confined to. I feel as those poor kids who struggle to learn to read must feel daily every time I get stuck with anything unusual in a new song.[/font][/color][/size]

Critical question really, would you ever build yourself a cab from scratch? If you would then the 3012HO is still one of the best drivers out there and, were it not for the cost, the driver I might have gone for in the Basschat 12" design. Build one of our cabs and swap the 3012 into that if you don't like what it does in your GK and you'll have a lovely cab.

Hi Stevie, depends what you see as 'no bottom end'. It's Q=0.8 which is almost maximally flat from this driver. The response rolls off from 200Hz but is only a couple of db down at 100Hz and -10dB at 70Hz.. Porting the same volume you'll get a couple more dB output from 100Hz down and roll off from 150Hz. The main difference is that the excursion below 40Hz is pretty much uncontrolled with a ported cab, making any bass boost a bit problematic. Giving modest bass boost (say 3dB) to the sealed cab would be an option which wouldn't threaten damage to the speaker but would restore bass to the sorts of levels a ported cab would give. The OP has an 18l cab or thereabouts. You aren't going to get a huge bass output from a cab that size with a 12" speaker His original driver probably gave him the usual bass hump above 100Hz with little deep bass anyway. I think the 3012 would give him a clean sounding bass, although definitely a bit bass light. My advice was to return it to original though. It's a lot of money if you find out you don't like that sort of a tone, and a bit of a waste of a good driver to put it into such a restricted cab. I took the question to be 'would it work?'. The only reason I looked at the 3012 was because a tiny box requires a decent sized magnet to achieve good levels of damping it was the just the first speaker I thought of that I know I have stored parameters for. There you are Owen, we disagree slightly, Stevie is right to challenge me probably. I've only had a quick look so don't rush out and spend £200 yet.

[quote name='DrBike' timestamp='1480667862' post='3186182'] That made me guffaw! Kiat - It's probably not on your list but I would definitely not look at Weston-uper-mare or it's surroundings. I moved here just over a year ago and there's practically nothing going on at all. You could try around Reading/Maidenhead/Windsor as there's quite a lot of live stuff going om (certainly compared to here). [/quote] Made me smile too. How do you find stuff in and around Reading though? I moved down to the West Country from Reading 20 years ago. I go back fairly regularly to visit friends and usually look out for live music or open mics and can't find anything like as much as down here. Berks seems to be cursed with dozens of websites that aren't kept up to date. Down here a quick search on Lemonrock turns up dozens of gigs every week without fail.

Depends upon what you mean by music scene, are you talking as a performer, as audience or just where there are plenty of people up for a jam. Are you talking covers or live original music? I'd say lot's of original live music might be tricky outside of the big cities as that's where the younger populations tend to be. You didn't mention Bristol which is pretty good for it's music scene but is a city of course. Exeter and Torbay has a fairly lively scene of covers bands and there's a fair community of musicians to tap into, there's also a lot of open mic stuff going on and an opening for the solo performer and duo's in some of the country pubs and smaller coastal venues. It's not so easy for originals bands or young musicians though. It's all relative though, Bridport has a good artistic community all round for its size for example, but it is a small place and you''ll soon have located every musician in town.

Hmmm, well I couldn't do it.

I do know J and Lizzie, they live just down the road next door to one of our best friends and the singer in my first band, lovely people, small world. Do you live down this way? The 3012HO models well in that it has a flat response in your cab down to the cut off frequency and then the slow roll off sealed cabs usually exhibit, ideal for a bit of tweaking on the tone controls. Your cab could have been built for it in fact. The 3012 won't exceed it's excursion limits until you put out 250W at any frequency, so no farting out I would think at all. It also has quite a nice top end and sounds good with bass. [url="http://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?id=EMIKLIT3012HO&browsemode=manufacturer"]http://www.bluearan....de=manufacturer[/url]

I've had a quick look at how the Eminence Beta and the 3012HO model in that cab. As said it is very small for a 12" cab, so small that I doubt the decision to make it that size was based solely on sound. The Beta has a big hump in frequency response at 120Hz and rolls off after that. I suspect what you had does the same. there wouldn't be deep bass but plenty of the bass you do have with the Beta. The 3012 models really well, do you want to spend £200 on hot-rodding? I'd go for the original at that price.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1480540048' post='3185301'] Rehearse your stage moves. Seriously. If you practise playing while staying still, that's what you'll do on stage. Try your moves at home in front of a mirror, and do them at rehearsal. [/quote] [quote name='FuNkShUi' timestamp='1480579155' post='3185489'] Just do what feels natural. If you have to think or plan what you're going to do, it's going to look like you've had to do just that. That's rarely ever a good luck. Don't think too much about it, move with the music as much or as little as is natural to you. [/quote] Both of the above. It's worth thinking it through and certainly moving whist doing bass practice is a good idea, you'll develop moves which come naturally and look OK if you do it in front of a mirror. Having a few moves or poses of your own, or borrowed from your favourite performers, helps limit the embarrassment factor when you first go up on stage. However unless you and your band are going for a full choreography of the set then I think it has to come naturally or it can look a little odd and uncomfortable. FWIW I read of a study, in New Scientist, of dancing as a display, apparently small movements of the legs when independent of the movements of the upper body are deemed most attractive. Since your hands are going to be involved in playing bass that must mean don't overdo the dancing. I don't think dancing is always the answer though. The audience want something to watch as well as listen to, and to see you enjoying what you do. If you aren't a natural mover then it's amazing what a bit of smiling and looking at the audience does. I think the audience also like it when there is plenty of interaction within the band.