JTUK

Our vox are always way upfront and never get drowned these days... and with decent/pokey monitoring he will not trash his voice and be struggling by the end of the gig. In fact I'd say decent monitor cabs on the lines of EV..which are VERY directional and will cut your head off.. are just as important as anything else. Settling for things like Wharfdale and the like for vox mons are borderline and you'll soon see the error of those ways when you come across decent wedges. But as always, P.A for local gigs is always a weight/carry versus efficiency..but you'll be surprised how many bands scimp on that and pay for it...when/if they eventually realise it.

Ok.... good idea. Will try and do so.

How heavy are the bins, Martin..? I guess I need to see and hear it. We currently run Martin cabs which are fantastic but want something lighter and modular. I think the spec says lot of power for the money. We are at the George..as are you soon..?

Need to talk to you about these, M. might be in the market for a new P.A

[sup][size=5]The assumption appears to be that the sound will be changed dramatically but this is not what you want to be chasing...and AIUI the OP wants more of the same as passive but with a bit of onboard control which the East is perfect for. As I said tone shaping is very wide, but you don't often go there... the sweep stays the same and the bass and treble are slightly boosted at the flick of the fingers..in the middle of the song. I find this very useful..as I am always changing around the bess track to make it interesting..if mainly for me..!![/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]These things can have +-15bd across the range which can ruin the sound ...[/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]Just imagine a MM with controls all the way up and you'll get what I mean... not many can carry that off...and if they do..I'd suggest they have seriously marked down the Eq on the amp to cope..!![/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]I use pre's to enhance what the bass is sounding like..and I have 3 styles I need to make work... and I can do all 3 with one switch....and I may have to dull down the presene control but that is all.[/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]All this I can do mid track. You don't want to go hunting for sounds by having to make sweeping freq changes as that means set-up and sound check have been a complete waste of time[/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]and you don't want to have to be searching from an extreme range to get back to somewhere like normal..[/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]The most crucial element to my sound is how much life there is left in the strings and if the strings are on the side of fresh, then soundschecks are literally a couple of minutes...[/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]Then once we start, I might find I am a tad under-over cooked within the mix..and I'll sort it ..[/size][/sup] [sup][size=5]KISS..!![/size][/sup]

Indeed... I told him his was a niche and they hadn't cracked how to deal with it. Loud and screechy doom vox can clear a place in seconds round here..but there are one or two pubs that will take them. This then brought on the old 'mustang sally and Sex on Fire' tracks in the set for a lot of bands old chestnut. But the equation is simple..who is buying what you are selling and does it stack up..?

Had this same conversation with a heavy metal guy yesterday...he said the had two gigs in the diary. I asked him how many people they could get to a pub..and he thought quite a few. He also said they were desperate for gigs and charged next to nothing. I said this wasn't a good diea as it sets that precedent and also if you charge nothing then it doesn't say much about how much you value yourself, IMO. If you sell too cheap..do you want 'too' cheap'...? Any cover band round here charging £150 isn't going to be any good...but I am also horried at who thinks they can justify £300. I am not saying pubs don't pay it and some bands aren't worth it for certain reasons......just horrified at the sheer gaul that some bands dare charge it.

Canterbury is odd in that it has a big student population but not much of an outlet for gigs.. Don't bother with the pubs ... The best is to approach the University or Kings school or [url="http://www.canterburywanderer.co.uk/#/gig-event-guide/4535472452"]http://www.canterburywanderer.co.uk/#/gig-event-guide/4535472452[/url] not always Canterbury city limits but close enough..?

[quote name='oggiesnr' timestamp='1340218866' post='1701347'] It's horribly common and I run into all over the place and not just with pub bands and not just at festivals (where there might be a partial excuse). I've paid good money to see bands where I've filled in the words from memory (Todd Rundgren, Jethro Tull, Fairport Convention, The Nice (reunion tour), Johnny Winter to name but a very few). Steve Steve [/quote] My pet theme atm is that I don't want certain P.A companies or engrs doing our sound as they aren't good enough, IMO. All the gear no idea syndrome. The best guy around is an old skool recording engr using old Celestion stuff which is 20 yrs out of date but he KNOWs his way round what he has..!!! We would be better off using our normal P.A and doing the sound ourselves mostly which is saying something as the massive disadvantage with that is of course, no outfront control.. but that is the way it is..!!! But our vox are always heard to the best efect, IMO..!! plus the guy can sing..which always helps..!!

[size=5][sup]John East U-retro will do exactly what you want... and make the bass active/passive and with a mid sweep.[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]or you could use a sadwosky outboard pedal and Ag Tone hammer.[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]The key to all this working well, IMO, is that you don't HAVE to do it to get a good useable sound and it can just enhance the inherrent good sounds you already have.[/sup][/size] [size=5][sup]I had east's on both my basses and they just add more of the same ...but if you aren't careful, you can go mad and screw the sound should you feel that way inclined.[/sup][/size]

I have used 2x112 and 2x210 with a 500w amp outside recently..with the kick through the P.A.. and I easily cover this gig.and we can be pretty loud. My cabs are upto it for sure ..as is the P.A for vox and keys and gtr bleeds. You just need to know your kit can do the job and be driven but it helps if the P.A is pretty manly and can handle a good 600w per side amp efficiently..

[quote name='D.I. Joe' timestamp='1340197906' post='1700832'] Probably a practice-room-amp thing. I always found similar with the Trace Elliot's at college. Public rehearsal rooms are gear graveyards! [/quote] Sure..but that is why they end up there as they aren't good for too much else...

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1340181088' post='1700318'] Exactly - the amount of bands I see where I can hear the singer, but not understand a word they are singing is amazing. I`ve always thought that as soon as you can hear the words, the band sounds much more professional. [/quote] Really...?? its sounds like you have some pretty awful bands then around there then. There is a good sound and good sound, but not hearing the vox and words doesn't even qualify .. There are planty of things that can make up amateur hour but this isn't even 1st bass... 1st rule..get vox/PA sorted... get that wrong and it is all over before you even start.

I have seen this bass or something very close to it but can't recall where. It may have been on the Sadowsky website of course..!! ..but..?? It is very distinctive but maybe he built a few along these lines. Best of luck with your search though.

£200 for a 5 piece and that is very hard woprk for the money in pubs. We don't travel far..and maybe 60 miles round trip at most so you need £60 for the petrol and a drink or two to be left with £40-ish in the pocket LL may throw in a free pint and that is appreciated but not at every gig. We don't do pubs for the money but they serve a purpose, and at the same time you need to make it feel worthwhile. We cherry-pick the pubs into decent payers and decent venues..and that in itself cuts down the numbers by quite a few. Whatever you charge you need to be worth it... and get that fee time and time again from those venues. If I see doorman at a pub then that pub isn't going to be paying the band £200 for the night..IMO..!! The bucket is a for guest players that night...it should NEVER be the fee...as it is suplimentary, IMO..!! I've done jazz dates as a guest and the main band/trio is on a fee... so the guests get the bucket and you are doing well to get £30 a man that way but you do it to meet other players and get networked. It is like a paid audition/jam/open-mic..!! and it should lead to more openings..!!

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1340203170' post='1700968'] I would hire. Then after a few gigs you'll have a better idea what sort of PA she'll be needing. [/quote] This... plus the hire-fee should be split, or at least factored in as a cost and therefore make it apparent what is needed/required on future dates. If you do too much yourself at this stage..then this little matter will tend to get get lost or conveniently forgotten and you'll have a hard time undoing the seed that you have sewn.

Of course, FOH should be used but if the event is doing this to keep a handle on costs, there are two things to consider. 1st... if cost is limited, should you be doing it? and 2nd.. the rig should surely be loud enough if you are sensible and don't ALL try going hell for leather..which is where the bass freqs tend to get over-run. But I run a 550 w rig just for this type of occasion...well...more like for the stage sound, but it works for small outdoors.. At times like these, you'll need that heavy handed drummer..as this is where you will run out of steam first, sound-wise. Go for the mix rather than the volume..!!

We have just put our prices up and will have to see how it goes but it all comes down to the fact that a pub gig is a LOT of work for £60 per head for a 5 piece. That, plus we know what others are supposed to be going out for so some places can afford to pay it...apparently.

Always wonder what the pub has to take in order to pay £300 plus to the band...

And if they aren't why are you playing with them...? BEST ever musician I've played with is a drummer

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1340114911' post='1699310'] We do it to the volume of the drums. All you need to do is be able to hear everyone in the band on stage and that will transmit outfront with the exception of the Vox..as monitors will be loud and clear. can't really agree with that I'm afraid, sometimes I think my bass is really loud and out front it's fine, sometimes the guitar seems loud but again it's ok out front, depends on room accustics [/quote] That is fine, but I am not the one confused about how we sound.

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1340117459' post='1699355'] I think most people associate the Precision due to Vicious Sidney, and perhaps, Paul Simenons cover shot on London Calling. [/quote] Who else was there..??

P-bass..no question.