JTUK

hmm... not sure Flea is someone that you could say grooves. He might just have been able to do so out of the RHCP's... and the stuff on Morrisettes was the closest I've heard, but since most know and hear him in the RHCP's..then that is an emphatic NO, from my POV. So, here we have it... what is a groove by the commion consensus here?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1365581891' post='2041214'] [size=3]Yep. A guy I know who used to tour a lot in Europe always took a Sansamp with him so he could get a consistent sound on any backline and DI that was provided.[/size] [/quote] yep..and carries a steinberger as it travels so well in a softcase.. I think that is s step too far...

Two completely different playing styles generally and your path would typically have been divided at quite an early bass playing age. I find you can make a decent fist at both or either but if you don't listen to the stuff...you don't have the empathy to be pretty good at it. Most rock players that I know couldn't groove in any sense to save their lives..but then if you wanted a funk player to really lay into a pile of hard playing straight 8's that wouldn't interest them in the slighestn and they wouldn't really have the style/technique honed to do it anyway. Oh..and btw... slap riffs aren't likely to be great grooves so they don't count

Where do you get the signal for that then..? pre or post..?

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1365514823' post='2040544'] This is all ideal world stuff. If you provide the PA company with a spec, and they say they're fine with it, you have to take them at their word. The only time you can find out for certain is when it's too late to get someone else in, at which point you just work with the hand you're dealt. I've battled through plenty of shabby, tin-pot PA disasters in my time. [b]There's no point getting upset about it.[/b] [/quote] No..but you try not and invite it again. After some of the above ( they aren't all of the same gig ) we made it known to the festival that we didn't rate the P.A.... there was no seperation in the cabs anyway ( another story ) ..and we didn't rate the engr. No probs with DI tho The job was initially taken by a friend of ours...who also happens to be very good..and had done the gig very well previously, which is why he was rebooked....but he subbed it out..and was mortified when we reeled off list of 'issues' with his dep AND mate. . Anyway..we have a good relationship with some venues and they listened ..and they have booked a very good company for this years date. All we have to do now is cope with the attitude of the band on before us... that will be fun getting them off stage at the correct time... Will let you know how that goes...

[quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1365513625' post='2040526'] Spot on. Your job is on the stage. What happens off it is out of your control and trust that everyone else involved do their job to the best of their abilities. Do as much as you can to make other people's jobs easier and more pleasant whilst doing yours. Beyond that, put in a good performance and the make sure the punters have enjoyed their evening. Any moans and groans can be reserved for the trip back home. [/quote] And if you can work well enough to get away with that..then fine.. But we have had no vox in monitors ..and that makes the evening a strain..albeit a pub house P.A. We have had no kick in drum fill... after asking for it 3 times... Eventually the drummer had to go to the desk himself and say this AGAIN to the engr. We've had no drum monitor at all...for vox..as the engr had moved it and forgot to put it back... Eventually the drummer got off his stool and moved it himself. We have had no keys outfront for the best part of the gig....assume the engr only worked with gtr bands.. we have had to tell an engr how to EQ the drum sound... as he really wasn't getting anywhere.. and on and on... Anyone of these could have affected the performance... and I recall all the gigs being well received at the time but we would be amiss if we let this go... and just shrugged our shoulders. And as it happends, we haven't worked with any of these companies since. It is in everyones interest to put on a good show... so everyone needs to play a decent part.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1365512845' post='2040507'] Sometimes you have to rely on the PA company that is provided or recommended. If you've driven 400 miles to do a gig, and people have paid 10 or 15 quid for a ticket, you're hardly going to get back in the van and drive home. You just have to get on with it. [/quote] Agree...but if that was the ante... why would you be leaving it to that sort of chance/lottery.? I wouldn't and I'd have talked to the P.A co prior. That is not to say that that would eliminate everything, as the game is full of chancers but you can give yourselves a better chance. If you do a gig and the sound is not good, then that comes mostly back to the band... and if I've driven a good few miles I don't want to be caught out by something a phone call could have pretty much sorted. The very least is that you are happy with the P.A spec... and then you still have to get past the engr being on his game. But sure... the road is littered with horrors.... All of ours, these last few years have been noticed at band level... rather than the gig being spoilt as far as we could tell and there may be a fine line between being a pain and just getting away with it. We are..believe it or not, quite cool about it...but that is not to say we will invite the same sort of problem. We haven't refused to work with anyone but we have used our influence to get another P.A company in, that we worked well with before. It is clear to me that the more you do these sort of things, the more reason you need to be pretty strict about what actually is allowed to happen..

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1365511646' post='2040474'] I'm talking about the dreaded "house PA" here. [/quote] There are a few house P.A's like that in pubs round here... and they may come with the LL doing the sound. All I can say is "AVOID AT ALL COSTS" ... and we'd take our own. We haven't been invited back to one pub as we wont use their rig... and our beef was that the LL/engr didn't know what he was doing and couldn't get any useable level out of the Vox mons so the singer went hoarse that night... All round NOT GOOD. This is why we get a bit precious about these sorts of things... and it may sound a bit hard to work with... but do it right or don't bother is a good enough mantra to start with. It may cost you more but it is worth it... IMO.

[quote name='bremen' timestamp='1365507445' post='2040385'] Yes, please do. Also agreed that good/modern bass amps have far more versatile eq than the bass, treble and sweepable mid you get on the behringer desk that most venues offer. [/quote] Why do people use these sorts of companies if the kit is deemed inadequate...?? This is why you need to use people you know and trust, IMO.... I don't think I'd be hiring a Belringer/PV type P.A as we could cobble together far better ourselves...IMO. And you can't leave this sort of thing to people who don't know much but work against a price.

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1365454245' post='2039946'] As above. For an average of less than a tenner per band what kind of godlike genius engineer is expected? PA systems sound nothing like Bergantino cabs and separate EQ is often essential. Fact of life. [/quote] We don't do multi bills, generally, but the P.A costs for a 5kw rig start at £400 inc 1 engr. Anything less than that would worry me... Min spec would be a pro HK rig, but pref Martin. Again, all this is why you want to have experience of the compkany beforehand...or at least talked through the tech spec beforehand.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1365357484' post='2038501'] I've usually found the opposite where the sound guy is constantly trying to fight all the clever sounds that sounded great in the practice room that now sound awful, jtuk will be here to tell us he has an hour on his own to perfect all his patches or he won't play I'm sure but in my experience the band before spend an hour looking for the leads to a keyboard they use on one song if they remember and we get five minutes tops to set up! Next band goes on, P bass and a ten foot lead, sounds ace! [/quote] I don't actually... I don't use effects and I normally plug both basses in..get the sound up pretty much straight away..and then wait my turn for the bass check. We are then done in a few minutes ... IMHO, my sound is good and easy... I want to hear everything I do from my stage monitors..and I'll set a level for the stage through the band soundcheck..and then I expect that to be it. All he has to do really is deal with level and the room...I have sorted the signal, pretty much. I will fine tune stuff at home with my gigging amps and now all that hard work is pretty much done. Since we have all worked on the sounds and they are what we want... we can easily get away with a 15 min-ish turnaround ( inc load-in ) but that means the engr has to be right on the ball..some are, some aren't but unless we have booked them, that isn't our fault or within our control..

Tendons and ligaments typically take far longer to heal, IME. I would go and see someone..not a quack/GP..who can probably check a few things over and confirm what you suspect you have done. In these situations, I am not a fan of masking the pain with pills... as pain is a check for overdoing things, and as tendons/ligaments are slow you heal you do not need setbacks and restarts. I am currently having to do this with an achillies injury and I am really nursing it... but am going to go to my physio for some realignment as well. Legs and the lower back get out of whack far easier than hands and arms...but you can do hardly anything if you injure your arms/hands..

hmmmm.. Many many stories.. but the band can help themselves..if only in terms of the time they need to soundcheck... by sorting their own sounds out and you only have to hear a lot of local bands to know that that is going to be a lottery. Add that to a half-arsed engr and they will have no chance. We are quite willing to use the first number as a 'sound check' ( not a line check ) but by the thrid number you should have the kick thru the monitors if you have asked for it a couple of times. You should also actually have a drum monitor IF the drummer sings... and the engr should take note of his stage plans when he moved it for another band....plus he should have learnt to be conversant with a digital desk BEFORE taking the gig.. In the past year or so, there are some we would not invite back...so now we strongly recommend a P.A/engr to the hirer.

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1365350912' post='2038355'] I don't accept that as being true. Get someone else to play a few bars on your stage rig at a couple sound checks, dial in some settings that sound good to you [b]out front [/b](or just trust the judgement of a bass playing mate)stick to those settings from then on with minor tweaks and play with confidence that the audience is getting a good sound[b], [/b]thus freeing you from the psychological comfort blanket of needing your precious "tone" on stage. [/quote] Why would I do that...? I get the sound on stage that I want. I then deliver it to the soundman. I know a lot more about the sound that works for me than he does. It isn't going to be a poor sound, so why would he worry? As said above... the only reason the engr should get involved is if the sound needed a lot of work. He works with what I give him...and sure, we can talk about it, and the conversation is cordial, but I am right about what sound I want. He isn't going to know any more..and I may only have just met him. What I expect from him is that he knows his kit...and that is not always a given.

[quote name='Prunesquallor' timestamp='1365406041' post='2038970'] Grangur, defo look for a good teacher. He or she would be able to see the weak spots in your technique and straighten them out quickly. Chatting one-to-one with him or her would also help you decide on your priorities. Good luck! [/quote] This is not always true... it depends on the teacher. I've come across very poor exponents of their craft who profess to teach... and I mean VERY poor.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1365337532' post='2038146'] I like the sound of my amp. It's a good'un, so I'll always go for post eq. I have been hassled by sound engineers but I've never had a problem with them [i]after[/i] they've heard my post eq signal. [/quote] Indeed... Why assume an engr knows anything anyway..?? some are glorified DJ's..IME... We find we have to establish a relationship with engrs but out of, say, the last 10 we've used... I only had time for 2, IIRC. and we aren't a hard band to mix at all...

You need a good stage sound to react to what you are playing and the nuances you hear. It also makes you feel better about the gig and music and you can raise the bar in your playing. I hear awful functional sounds from bands round here where level seems the only consideration...the bass and drums sound nowhere near a unit or decent combined useable section. The playing is across the sound rather than in it or part of it. To all intense and purposes they sound like they can't hear or are oblivious to each other. Don't expect the audience to notice if the players can't... but really, sounds are absolutely fundemental ... Keys are gtrs tend to get it more...and drummers and bass players are way behind, IME.. Talk to decent keyboard player and he will be anal about the piano sounds... and that is the way it should be, almost. Dittio gtr players with their effects and valve simulations.. Bass players tend to just need to be felt and drummers just want o hit things If people just put up a signal and expect someone else to fix it in the mix..then you are creating a lot of work repairing the damage potentially. And in the days of 15 mins sound checks, you need to be as sorted as possible with GOOD core sounds if you want a chance of sounding good.

yes..I'd be worried about you getting break-up on that rig. Hopefully it is your signal clipping rather than the cabs. The gain is where I would start...as Chris has said.

I would go 410 as I prefer them... and I'd expect any decent 410 to slaughter a 115 anyway. As the prices you mention I doubt the cabs be will too special anyway, tbh..altho you might luck out. Best bang for buck cab, IMO, consistantly, would be an SWR Goliath ll/lll which go for around £250..ish.. They are getting on for 20yrs old now and the competition has caught up but in their day, were pretty much the standard. All you need to do is find one with good speakers in it... and they will be PAS which were decent. You don't want to be hunting around for replacements though as you can't get them ... But if the cab has been looked after..bargain, IMO. The only reason you see so many of them around is because a 410 is traditionally HEAVY.. and there are lighter options. As with all these things, there are cabs and CABS... so be careful going for cheap... best to go for band for buck, IMO

I wouldn't do anything... there is so much bluff in these sorts of things that all it does it get them gigs that they potentially can't deliver on... This may be tacky but bands live and die by live perforfmances and if you can't cut it, you'll get found out anyway, soon enough. If they are perceived as having people over, then that will cause far more long term damage. People in the business ..what ever level that is...talk, pubs talk to pubs etc etc ....so they will be found out and it is very hard to recover from. Getting a reputation is one thing..but getting a bad one is pretty much terminal...IMO.

These look a good price on the face of it [url="http://www.electromusic.co.uk/RCF-Art-312-A-12-Active-Speaker.html"]http://www.electromusic.co.uk/RCF-Art-312-A-12-Active-Speaker.html[/url] Doubt they are the RCF of old, but they are pretty pokey and I'd put them underneath QSC's but better than average. I think for decent vox, these should be mimium spec, IMV.. or [url="http://www.e-av.co.uk/pa-speakers/hk-audio-premium-pro12a-active-speaker?gclid=CPnPt7_qs7YCFQ7KtAodRW4Ajg"]http://www.e-av.co.uk/pa-speakers/hk-audio-premium-pro12a-active-speaker?gclid=CPnPt7_qs7YCFQ7KtAodRW4Ajg[/url] A bit more than you have budgeted for, but as new. I find a lot of bands P.A sounds like it has hard too much of a caning and the horns have had it. I don't find the horns that robust either. K12's are ok...but the wooden KW12's are far better, IMO. You would have to run VERY loud and mic the kick to need a sub, for most small-ish places

We are a loud band..and it is the snare that does it. We always try and get feed back about the volume and generally it doesn't kill us. Apart from the constant exposure, I don't see why bands should have to use plugs and then play to that volume and leave the audience to suffer..?? but I take my plugs to other band gigs so you have a choice, use them or lose it.. The sound difference with plugs in is way more than a loss of top, IMO... but they are things you should come to terms with. Our gtr uses a 25w valve type head, the keys has a 2x300w P.A , but it is the snare that does the damage

[quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1365112967' post='2035644'] Haha! I think the day when you commission a custom bass is the day your best friend should punch you in the face. Like your art is so unique it requires a bespoke instrument. Your art as a bass player - no other instrument screams 'accompaniment' like the bass guitar, nobody needs a bespoke bass built to their own specification unless they have a disability and require a uniquely accessible instrument. [/quote] Unless the builder can build you a bass that you want, and can't get elsewhere...

I just play... I react to what is going on and if the music is going well, I may move more. I think we have a degree of presence and I always try and make eye contact with the audience, but mostly the connection is the music... Without that, you have no where to go...