JTUK

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1406024929' post='2507542'] I don't really understand what you're saying here - the people you've quoted have stated facts about how much they know some pro musicians can earn so they aren't 'opinions'? [/quote] I don't get it either... Most pro's I know ( and I agree there is quite a variance in the defintion of 'pro'...) are desperate to be offered £150 per head function gigs and you only have to put dep adverts out and you'll get guys willing to travel over 100 miles EACH WAY... as I have just recently done exactly that..and I picked mostly local guys as I couldn't pay petrol exes on top. And these are on the prime working night of a saturday...!!! Also... if I want a two man horn section, I have to pay £350 for the pair..which is mates rates.. on a saturday and I can get the same guys for £160 per pair on a friday. Other days may well be cheaper. And I know one of those guys was 10 weddings down in the first qtr of this year so he will never make that up in terms of wages. The dates have gone and whilst he is doing well enough now in the summer... he still has debts incurred from the early part of the year. He belongs to a spankingly good wedding/corporate band but they just had a terrible start to the year. By the same token... we headlined a festival last year and one of the acts was a 1 hit wonder from the 70's...very professional in what they did, rolled out the hits and songs from the era and you could see that they would fit very well on the cabaret/holiday camp circuit. I suspect they got paid more than we did... but we wont go into that ... and they all had pretty brand new people carrier/SUV/4x4 cars. They were doing more than quite well....I'd have said. But, generally, it is not easy out there at the moment... And then.... you can talk about what quality of pro you actually mean and get for what money...!! I can get a few top names in their day for £50...if THEY fancy it... and you might have to pander to one or two 'diva-ish' traits, but not in a nasty way. One guy doesn't carry or set up his own kit for example... and the other wants a type of retainer so they don't pay rehearsal costs, or wants petrol money. This is ok, IF you really want them... and their playing suggests you really should.. and you rob one gig to pay them on another. It can work out easily enough if you want it to and nobody gets paid more than anyone else over a course of time... So, just like Crez who invests in his band with trade fayres, that money needs accounting, and you can do this by simply running a decent kitty and a decent ledger. But, of course, the kitty has to be fed somehow... and the big gigs sub the little gigs

There is plenty of work for the very good ones... so many towns across europe will have 'Blues festivals' but what I am saying is that 3 guys and no show generally aren't it. But yes, you are right, not really my thing to play or watch if they don't get much beyond a 12 bar and a shuffle and the standard fare all night. Had many a conversation with LL/venue who will say they love them even though they'll make no money on most..?? and it may even be a shame when compared to the 80's rock bands who can do no wrong. Any band doing the Soul revue/Committments or a Ska band plus all the 80's classics don't have to work very hard either round here... But. yes, the appeal/draw dynamic is an interesting one.

I love that these old studio mainstays are now getting airtime.... and I applaud them still being relatively small factories ..despite a high profile and 'budget' and made in the U.S in the same factories of yore. Tell me that is still true and will hopefully remain so, Barrie...please.

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1405981100' post='2507302'] £1500 for a wedding gig?? I wish... [/quote] Agree it is a tough market and these gigs have suffered most in the recession, IMO... there are less of them. but I don't see how you can make a living without 1 big payer a week, each and every week throughout the year if you want to stand a hope of hitting £30k... Even £20k needs something like £100 in lessons, either salaried or peripertetic, 4 pubs gig and a function of around £100...but you need to average this each and every week...which is why it isn't easy. In truth, if I asked most of the guys I know trying to do it, I'd guess most would now choose another career. Not saying they aren't having fun, but its gets to be a job just like anything else and they don't live well. They are struggling..and working as hard as they can...

A couple of things... no one will lose money playing a blues gig round here, it is popular..or the bands can work very cheap.. but apart from the gtr who has to be..and generally is, very good, he and the band can't make it interesting enough beyond 20 mins as he has done his beans on solos by then. Quite afew Gtrs have decent CV's... and it still counts for a boring gig, IMO. ... if only they added keys or SOMETHING.. There aren't bands like The Hamsters around....

[quote name='jonsebass' timestamp='1405970023' post='2507123'] So what is the going rate for gigs then? Do you have a "bass" (geddit) cost (of say £200) and then add on extra $$$ for longer sets etc? I've played bass in the same band for yonks now, and we started off playing pubs for £160 (when we first started out as a 4 piece) and then that went to £200 as we became more popular. Now we are a 5 piece we play 1st pub gigs for £250 and subsequent for £300. We have pretty much always done 1x 60 min set and 1x 90ish min sets. Weddings/parties we charge double for (£600 just for the band) because the majority of the time we have to setup early/the day before so theres a lot of travelling. Set times are normally chosen by the person thats booked us. I've heard of some bands that charge more to bring their own PA/lights and things, which I find ludicrous really. [/quote] £270 is minimum cost as we pay 5x£50 and £20 for the P.A... we have a new P.A so that may have to go up. I think it is an insult to pay anyone less that £50 for a pub so that is what we bill at. Anything over 25miles away needs petrol exes... Parties start at £550 for family and friends, and normal parties start at £750 excluding P.A and lights and travel. Maximum playing time is 2 hrs and we charge to put sound through the P.A... if only because that means it may have to be up and running for longer. If people want music until 2pm, we tell them to get a disco but if we have to do it..we charge them for keeping 3 people standing around for how many hours waiting to pack up.

I get pretty pissed off that a 3 piece Blues bands turn up with a couple of amps..the gtr twiddles all night whilst the other two just do their thing...there is a nominal P.A which just about does the job and they walk away with £70 each...for playing crap blues ... Lights are things from another planet. So, yes minimum effort .... and you wont ever find them playing anything bar a pub.. No wonder..!! So yes... good that you try and make an effort to sound good..and lights never did anyone any harm.

The first call I'd make is to the P.A company and Engr on the gig. If the stage is large and set up well, you are likely to have full range monitoring and a variety of mixes at your disposal... but then that also assumes you get time to take advantage of a relevant sound check. If you have a big stage, you'll need the sound to be able to cover it... so you can hear other members 20-30 feet away. Plus, outdoors, bass gets 'lost' extremely quickly. If the change over is going to have to be quick...all you may get is 15 mins to get your stuff on stage and get a sound up... and this is easier said that done with 4-5 crew crawling everywhere and they will have their hands full with the drum kit. This is why I take a rig for the stage... big enough to reach the other side, and the kit and keys. It is no fun playing without the whole deal of a big stage and you want to be into it...not wondering what everyone else is doing and making do. If the organsiers are expecting 20,000 people, they should have spec'd a huge P.A... and all that that entails, but don't bank on it. We often have to advise the event of a base level of kit spec.... as they don't have a clue... and tbf...it might be unreasonable to epxtec them to know. They should ask someone who does tho... even the P.A will ask that...YOU'D HOPE. Take a pokey loud rig and look after yourseld.. having 500 plus watts on stage in nothing compared to what the P.A should be for that sized crowd and you should get a dedicated mon engr as well. But .... don't assume... find out. For me, I'd rock up with 750w over a 212 plis 210 and I can turn it down. If it ain't there..you can't conjure it up like magic. Always talk to the Sound crew prior.... If that is not possible, turn up well before your slot and get an idea or what the other acts are doing and put your amp in the same place...as they will have rigged the stage for lines and levels for certain instruments... and you don't want cables dragged out of position just to get a DI signal because you are used to being on a certain side..and then have the crew 'hunt' for it. Assume maximum chaos and limited time and help look after yourself...

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1405955467' post='2506893'] If I'm noodling about at home or during band practice I have the amp turned up and dig in less (using it for accents and the like). What I need to stop is the, adrenalin fueled, digging in during gigs... [/quote] I think that is where the technique will go and we find that we can't play as precise as hard..

Yes, agree, many ways to skin a cat. We aim to do our event thing and with that you need a degree of control so we tend to tell the client what we will do and what we need to do it... and also accept that some bands will be more suitable/compliable to the customers remit. I think our aim is general £1000 parties... but if you want to chase the £1500-2000 gigs you either need to swim in those circles and 'friends'/contacts will pay it or you need to be prepared to travel and work harder. We are old gits lazy...

[quote name='Mickeyboro' timestamp='1405953385' post='2506868'] £200 I fear - standard for any length set... [/quote] wow.... I was thinking that would have to be a £350-400 gig/fee. Some places want their pound of flesh...

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1405952276' post='2506855'] Not all gigs are concerts, though. The people out dancing at a village annual fair aren't watching the band (for the most part...), they're dancing. As the style of music varies, the folks on the floor will change, to get a drink and come back later. The band just keeps on going, varying the styles as the event progresses. It's a different ambiance to 'watching a group'. [/quote] That is what disco's are for. Most parties will book the band to be lively ...or just because they like them and it is more a sense of an event with a band. They will also book a disco and we encourage that and work with them. We don't want to keep the P.A up much longer after we have finished...that could go on for ever ha ha or it is just introducing a variable that is difficult to charge for.

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1405951441' post='2506841'] I'm not sure most people in bars/pubs in the UK actually want to hear four hour sets these days no matter how much the egos of the musicians concerned are convinced they could really entertain folks for that long to a good standard. The days of four hour sets are also the days of 2 or 3 channels to choose from on TV, no mobile phones and the only other likely distraction in the venue might be a dart board. Times change and people change with it. [/quote] I can just about manage 45 mins to the break for pub bands and if we do them then that is what we aim for. The second will be 45 plus 15 mins of an encore but by that time we will be pretty sure if they want to hear us. At the end of 2 hrs, we are spent with both drums and vox, especially. If places are still serving beer, then you can tell how well you have done as a lot people don't drift off home if they have had a very good time

Pub gigs for 3 sets..??? What is the money for those?

2 things spring to mind... Gigs are exhausting and some drummers just would not be fit enough so 2 hours is enough for us. Not really that interested in extra time as we have cratfed the times and the set to the time allowed.... plus the drummer with have gone through 3 shirts by then.. We quote for the gig and so we know what times to start and finish and we work that. Of course, we aren't worried about an extra couple of numbers but we have the big ending and we only have a few more numbers big enough in reserve... That is why you work with Disco's as they mop up afterwards...if that is the sort of gig it is..

I'm stoked I'm sick...

I'm stoked I'm sick...

Doesn't sound good if you have to consider writing off an amp just because it broke down. Everything can be fixed... but I like amps where the parts to be fixed are small... and not boards. I would talk to TC and see what their thoughts are...? but if you have done that, that might be quite damning, IMO.

I don't think there is one cab that will do it all.... but if you want a cab that will make a good fist of a lot, I'd start with the CN212 on the basis of the 2x112 being very good. I like them more than the AE112's for sure, but I also have far more time with the AE112's so it is easier to pick up their 'faults' from my POV than cabs played in a shop. I'd put the DB212 in there, but it isn't the easiest thing to move around at 70 odd lbs but if they did a DB610.... that would surely be on my list. They don't, so maybe I'd look at the NV610 and fit a horn... All my gigs are covered with a DB212 plus DB210 but that is 2 cabs, so..??

I've had a clear one made..again by Sims..so I got the Tort and Clear done at the same time. The Clear perspex one was thicker than the one that came off... not that made any real difference to me but I am near enough to take both basses down and see how the ideas and colourings will work.

[quote name='miles'tone' timestamp='1405931974' post='2506514'] Sims is £40 for custom plastic pickguards ex.postage though. £80 for genuine period correct celluloid tort. Spitfire's tort looks to be the best now he's on the scene. What does he make it from I wonder? Celluloid? Or some new material I wonder. [/quote] I can vouch for Sims as they made me a great tort plate. It wasn't cheap but then they deal and work with a lot of top luthiers so you get what you pay for. I wasn't sure of the pick and colour myself but these guys know all about finishes and they were spot on. I couldn't have been more pleased with the result. I've seen some very cheap looking printed things which are really quite disgusting and you can't be thinking about putting one of tjhose on your bass...??? I think you need to be thinking of £60-80 for a very good looking plate...

Never do more than 2x 1 hrs. Friend of mine works Florida and he says they play 4x45 and 1x1hr... to which I say f*** right off..... I think they get decent money but that is a ridiculous amount of time to play and the vast majority will be filler and you need two very good vocalists to get anywhere near a set... which is pretty hard to do. Totally pointless gig to my mind...your set will be all over the show and you are playing by numbers.. Talk about flogging it... and your lead Vox..!! I doubt he will be able to do 2 show in a weekend at that rate..??

[size=5][sup]Play IT[/sup][/size]

Walk it and no one will care.....

[quote name='r16ktx' timestamp='1405859881' post='2505855'] A while back I was in a heavy metal band with two guitarists locked in a volume war and so I ended up hitting the strings as hard as possible (i thought) as the amp just couldn't get loud enough (hartke 3500). I didn't end up with calluses though, but from some of the other replies on this thread it seems that this is expected, so am i right in thinking that using a high enough volume to allow for a mostly light, soft touch generally regarded as good technique? Or is it possible either my 'hard as possible' isn't really very hard or that my skin is related to rhinoceros hide? [/quote] If you play on a good stage with very good monitoring, the chances are you'll hear so well, you'll back off from playing hard and everything will seem so easy. I find I can't play anything like I can play at home, live, if I have to play hard, and one of the reasons I take powerful amps is so I don't have to...but it is a hard game to match perfect playing sound to small rooms...and bass seems so senstitive to rooms in its own weird way... My best ever playing conditions tend to be outside with enough power as opposed to having the fight sound off walls inside etc..