JTUK

Yes, but it is a bit desperate to have to hussle...and you can't really do that for parties anyway.. so that is why you play a few select pubs as they are your shop window. For festivals... we tell them that we have a special show that we can't afford to take out to pubs.. which is some ways goes to explain the big difference in the fees.

There are only a few gigs that we actively target...and we will have done so for the summer season by now. If they like the sound of us, they'll contact us... If we find we are a bit light for gigs in the winter, we get on the phone..but these are likely to be pub tick-over gigs, tbh. Generally we don't spend a lot of time chasing gigs....except the better ones which every one is tendering for.

Not a sustainable situation, tbh... something has to give..before your hearing does.

Posh hotel in Piccadilly for a group of investment bankers... They didn't go home until we put on Frank Sinatra from the Ipad... Late one, well paid, even for the pain of gigging in central London.

I steal bits from everywhere and roll them all up into what I have. I reel them off as and when.. but sure, over time, you end up with loads... Stolen 'licks' become your style if you aren't too obvious about where they came from..

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1418585450' post='2631477'] Over here in the States, some bars/clubs won't talk to bands. They only deal with agencies and will book whoever the agency refers. Blue [/quote] An agency is only the conduit... we know the ones we use and will have met and liked them beforehand. Altho.....we did wonder where this 'events booker' came from at a recent function and wondered how they earnt their money ..but then it was a investment bankers party so plenty of money to throw around. It turned out that one of the partners booked us and then got them ( event booker/management company ) to turn up and run the night.. easy money, I'd say and yes, we did undercharge .. but they'll book us direct again..and then just get someone in and run the night again...so a bit of a partnership there anyway.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1418585076' post='2631467'] I agree, but how about this. The band that can go to the landlord and tell him with no exception the band will pack his place and his sales will increase from the previous Friday or Saturday night by 25%. Most bands can't make this claim, we can't. And then say if it doesn't happen, you don't pay. I guess you would really have to trust the landlord, I would not use this approach with a sleeze. Blue [/quote] I am all for this...but the band better be as good as its boast. It's a bet.... and you'll only take it on if you think you'll win. But... it is easier money doing a party for 3 times the pub fee... all you have to do is seal the deal in the first place as the party will supply the audience. Ticketed gigs are fine..but there is a lot of pressure on selling 350 tickets for acts that can play in a local-ish pub a few months later. Out of all the LL's we work for..... we tend to have a very good rapport with them. We tend to do our homework and know someone who knows the place and the LL... and will know of its reputaion, just like we expect them to have checked us out. And if we do make a mistake with the venue..we only do it once.

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1418551708' post='2631025'] Funk and soul can be a bit tricky to get the timing, and hence the feel right. You need a good drummer for that. I quite enjoy a bit of walking bass, but then I learnt a lot of scales, arpeggios and cadences as a kid on various instruments. The one style I can't do is slap - I like a bit of Level 42 but never felt the desire to do it myself (heard too many music shop slapathons as a young newbie probably - it leaves me cold) [/quote] I just can't listen to guys doing the Flea thing.... about as funky as a wet fish slap around the face

They play the notes but they just haven't got it... Same with prog drummers ... just don't get funky. I really think the difference is hearing it and HEARING it... You need a good funk player to nail 'get lucky' otherwise if really really sucks. Outside of the funk genre, these are very good players. Horses for courses... I don't do metal or reggae but at least I know not to try.. TBF, tho... for a fucntion gig, they don't get the chance to veto the song..!! and this probably applies to a lot of 'fish out of water' guys.. Funniest and most tragic redition recently was a metal guy trying to play 'Sweet home alabama'

[quote name='Woodinblack' timestamp='1418549548' post='2631004'] I am in a prog group, and I am in another group that does quite a bit of funk stuff, and never had any problem with either. While they are obviously different, they don't really seem that far apart to be honest. I enjoy them equally (the styles not the groups) But I get where you are coming from with the 'not feeling it' thing. There are some stereophonics songs we do that I have a problem with as they are so incredibly forgettable, that by the time it comes to play it, I can remember how to play it but I have forgotten how they go! And all along the watchtower - I really can't get that. Enough to play it but not enough to really feel it. [/quote] One thing I tend to avoid... prog and funk as I can recall pretty decent players not getting it at all... I could reel of a whole host of guys around here that are very well regarded but just can't do it.. To me, prog and funk are pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum with what you need to bring to the table.. but I guess it depends on defintions and degrees... As for standards like Watchtower, I have no idea how I will play it until bar 1 when the drums start..and that is how I appoach most things. ..but it is up to us to make it work. A great drummer will have his take on it and if we work as a section, we'll work it out. The drummers I tend to have most problems with are the guys who say it goes like this..and play the record..as only the very few can get it like the record of top recording guys. I am working with the drummer, not for..!!

As regards LL not keen on booking you..firstly it is a two way street, secondly, we'd say 'their loss'.. We do more than enough pubs for our liking so not interested in playing places that aren't keen...etc etc . And even the most stupid LL is going to call the more successful draws as they will be in trouble soon enough without good nights. But there are plenty of pubs we wont touch. I am not playing tiny pokey pubs, sh*t-holes or rough pubs. Basically, anywhere we wouldn't take our partners is out... and we have a two pub per town rule so we target the two best that we can get in. I'll be in a band, but I wont be in a pub band exclusively as they just are too much work for the money..so there needs to be something else about them...

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1418486727' post='2630618'] The thought that springs to my mind is "Why wouldn't a landlord follow up a good band?". I then think whether it's to put the ball into the band's court. If they chased the band, they'd lose their leverage. They'd be saying "I want you to play at my pub". What they more than likely want is for a band to say "We want to play at your pub", and the landlord can bargain down the price on the basis of "How much do you want to play here? How desperate are you?". And the landlord probably has a ton of bands knocking down his door looking for work. [/quote] Every decent venue will have bands banging on the door.. One LL told me he 944 bands trying to get at his 150 odd slots a year. But there aren't anywhere near 20 top bands ( depends on your defintion of 'top' ) so there is a lot of dead wood in the numbers. If you are a band that can generate £3k's worth of sales during your stint or the evening, then getting over £300 should be easy. LL's don't mind spending to accumulate but it has to work like that. Maybe it would be better if bands said min fee is £250.. or whatever and accepted a bonus rather than saying £350..?? Both parties have to be confident that arrangement will work tho and you need to trust the LL. The other thing bands don't get is that their evening isn't the whole deal...and a LL will look at his music night costs over a period, and good nights subsidise bad nights and so you are all in it together in providing a good rosta.. Both it is natural that bands would only want to deal on things they can control..ie, their gig, as the content of the rosta is not their remit.

I stay away from reggae as it isn't something I connect to so can't see beyond very basic parts. I just don't hear it, not interested in listening to it so it's best we just don't. I think it is best to know where your musical bent sits and, for example, proggy guys can't get funky. Massive generalisation, of course, but altho they get the notes, they just can't get it to move. This is a very common no-no, IME. So..if you have a decent technique that should allow you to attempt most things, it is really your empathy with it that will carry it off well. Trying to cover too many bases is a common problem for players in covers band. This is why I tend to try and fit my 'thing' to tracks rather than the other way round.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1418410314' post='2630074'] That might be a cultural or regional thing. Over here, even if you packed the place and the alcohol sales went through the roof the venue is not going to call back. Blue [/quote] Don't get that at all..... a packed venue and alcohol sales thru the roof is the whole point of it.. If a venue didn't take advantage of a band that could do that, another one would and probably hurt the other venues attendences... On certain saturdays, there could be 8-9 venues/pubs putting on live music in town and another town 15-20 miles up the road doing the same. The better draws hurt attendences/sales in other venues/pubs. If a band is getting those sort of turn-outs, if isn't long before they sell tickets at the event and take a bigger fee.. A good band can get a bar to turn over £3k relatively easily and they then want a bigger slice of the pie.. And LL of pubs and venues will chase the bands that can do this...

None of the stuff/sounds he played would be what I'd use a P bass for...and in that regard it came off worse, IMO.. The Jazz shaded it for me most of the time and was in the top 2 picks for all the styles he used.

[quote name='linear' timestamp='1418387830' post='2629781'] I've never used a music stand, but after reading this thread I'm considering getting one for me and each of the other band members. This should provide an interesting level of cognitive dissonance for the audience at our next gig. [i]"Is it meant to sound like that? It must do, they're all using music stands." "The bass player has been playing the same two bar pattern for three minutes now, why does he keep turning the pages on his sheet music?"[/i] I think we'll hide them at the back until we are just about to start playing though. That way, those who would normally flee at the sight of them will have to stay until they've finished their pint at least. Only question is what type of stands to go for. I'm thinking mahogany for a nice warm tone, but painted black to preserve the high-end. [/quote] I think you'll chase them away anyway, tbh... no need to go for the expense of buying something you'll never need.

I found a room that the TH and Bergs couldn't cope with last night. I should have taken my other rig and I would have gotten natural depth more easily but the room was...er...very difficult and sometimes you just have accept that. Anyone played the Oak room in Le Meriden in Piccadilly will know what I mean.

I had to get the music out last night for an impromtu 'Merry Xmas' song as a punter wanted to do it and as the party was for a bunch of bankers, they were happy to splash extra for it... The dep drummer had his charts up all night... but filed under function gig He still played his a*** off so we forgave him Anyone want a dep drummer who will put his time in, and some.. in the Surrey/West London area..? He would be a boon to any gig.. One of the best guys we had in the year.

Not much help here and I think you'll spend over the top to make your daughter happy..that is entirely understandable but it still stinks. I recently booked for the Royal Albert Hall and the tickets from the usual suspects were nigh on £200 for 2 ... I went direct to RAH and got 2 very god box tickets for £112. But then, again, I could easily vote with my wallet... your teenage daughter isn't going to be of that mind-set... understandably..

The latter is one reason why we don't do business on the night... we will talk about it. Facebook is good for feedback because you should have a good few positive comments and you'll thank the venue, and the venue will comment as well, so you have established a good rapport. The problem with working for non musical type people is that they will have to remember you otherwise you might be little more than a 'starred' or ticked comment in their diary... so not the impression you wanted to make..??

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1418331820' post='2629337'] That's cool and I know some pub owners are cool and have the right intentions. [b]However, I also think that some pub owners don't know a good band from a bad band nor do they distinguish the bands they book from one another. They're just bands.[/b] I do think they know when they are not selling alcohol. Blue [/quote] Tend not to work for those sort of guys... we want to work for guys that know and like their music... and round here, the best music pubs are on those lines, IMO.

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1418326521' post='2629278'] the open mics I attend don't even have a house band, I do hear criticism of them, some how they're devaluing live music by giving the pub free entertainment but as JTUK points out they're always on a quiet midweek night, there's no way the pub could afford to pay and stay in business, I enjoy doing them, a night in the pub doing a 15-20 minute slot, chatting to other open micers and helping the pub stay viable, I don't really see the problem. [/quote] It has been an avenue for good pro players to earn on a down night...like a monday, and they rig the house band. They don't work that hard and the idea is to get enough people there to do slots so they just need to supply the gear and run the evening. It is good for networking. I got a few to do over the next few weeks...and will take some mates down so will try and get away from 12 bars stuff..whihc is great fun for the guest gtrs, but not for bass and drums, IMO.. so in that respect a jam element would be better... But that means you need to pick the players.. hence going mob-handed

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1418324417' post='2629235'] Some bar/pub owner don't make the distinction from hiring a band to the open mic host. All he knows is "[i]I can pay these guys $100.00 for the night why would I pay you guys $500.00"[/i] Am I right ? Blue [/quote] No... if the venue is a reasonable venue, they'll never get away with that standard over a decent band so it will be on a night that he can't fill elsewhere. What has becomes popular is 'audition' night where the LL needs to see an untried and no referenced band..usually a new start-up.. and if they do well that night, he'll throw in £100, which they didn't expect to get and book them on a proper gig night. Wouldn't touch them myself, but some bands are desperate enough... and I've seen a couple do well with it, but have to be honest, altho they filled the bar etc etc ...they wouldn't have gotten the gig thru ability', but hey..??

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1418239183' post='2628378'] I just dont see visual things like bindings, blocks etc as making a bass "110% better", fwiw I would buy one but not with any belief of it being any better during a gig than my others, my worst quality Ray is my black and white one, its also my favourite, go figure, lol [/quote] The thing is that certain guys can make that work and their attention to detail can well be reflected in the rest of the work they do. It is a labour of love to some and that is something that is very hard t put a price on, especially if they have areal eye for it. My basses sing ..IMO.. and that is partly the set-up but mostly the way he can put two bits of wood together.. Easier said than done, of course, but the money I paid ..?? totally worth it. I am thinking about adding a production bass but I know it wont be the same... but I have reconciled myself to that.

[quote name='mike257' timestamp='1418344502' post='2629485'] If you're ever coming up to the North West I'd happily oblige. I'm based in Liverpool with a 3.2kW HK rig which (despite what JTUK might tell you) sounds absolutely bloody brilliant. The feedback I get from the function bands I work with suggests that it's a worthwhile cost to them. I just wish I didn't get stuck doing it for my own bloody bands, must be lovely to just leave it to someone else to worry about! [/quote] I think HK is the min standard of hire-in gear, tbh...even if they aren't the company they were. I'd have no problem if HK was the spec but that would need to reflected in the price. It isn't Nexo or EAW for example, and we can do £4k with our own P.A and pay ourselves £100 each the 'hire fees' to the two principle P,.A holders, but I think they do decent enough stuff..just not for us as we have that range covered. If we needed 6k and couldn't afford the step up to Nexo, then HK Actor/L5 is good enough.