JTUK

[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1417691071' post='2623030'] Such a tricky thing to get right, any other colour is easy [/quote] It is, and you need to be careful of the cheaper WD plates as they looked awful to me. They are located, iirc. right next door to Sims so I went straight across the road to get one made. The price difference was around £30 compared to £65... but there was a world of difference between the two and Sims scanned and cut mine perfectly. The WD ones were off the shelf. It depends what you are putting it on..??

If the luthier had anything about him... then I'd say the £4k bass would be better than the £2k bass. £2k bring you into the realms of Sadowsky metros so whilst a pretty good standard, they are more producition made, aiui. This doesn't disqualify them of course, and the gap between £2k and £4K should be narrower that £2k and £1k, IMO. But, it really depends if you buy into the little things that may or may not make the difference... and how much a relatively rare and bespoke instrument is worth it to you.

I think red can be too much... I had Sims make me one up and I wasn't sure on the colour, but they knew what colours to stock and when put on the off-white body, it looks fantastic... whereas the red one from WD would have looked terrible... hindsight and all that...!!.

I get as creative as I can within the confines of what I play ( mainly cover type tracks )..... as I play to please myself anyway. I don't have REAL creativity as a writer but I think I have it to a degree in playing bass. But...no, creativity is not overrated..it is fundemental... but writing songs and being in an originals band means nothing in itself if you think the tracks are the bees-knees and no one will come and see you. The is no point is writing your own songs, being in a band for x number of years and rushing off to play every bill you can get on to, if no one comes to see you or buys your songs. I think a lot of bands should realise, it ain't happening, no one is interested, give it up.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1417612649' post='2622206'] If your not selfish with your tone (and the basslines you want to play) then you will be walked all over and you'll end up playing roots with a dull thudy tone just like everyone else... if I was being payed to play then obviously I'd play and sound however I was expected to sound.. but I'm not... I'm playing originals for fun and its no fun for me if someone else is dictating how they want my bass to sound. [/quote] The point is that if you ( anyone ) thinks they sounds and play great and no one, but no one is agreeing, then the chances are that someone is on the wrong track. It is important for people to tell you that they like this or that from time to time..even if you don't put that much store in their opnion. It just firms up a reference of sound or style of play.

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1417565252' post='2621920'] Load of crap, it's a tax loss/publicity stunt by the creator of Patrion. They make OK money from merch and other sales.Better tour profits would have significantly increased their tax liability. Far better to ensure people sleep, eat and get paid,than give it to the taxman.maybe they'll do it again.. But apart from that, how can people be saying "does EVERY person on the tour need there own bed,No they don't it's wasteful"? f***ing yes they do if you want half a decent days work out of them. Not all bands are 17 year olds happy with a back seat in a van. [/quote] Too right, I'm not 22 anymore and I don't crash on a floor. I'd expect to be looked after and treated ok within the realms of sustainability. If the work couldn't afford that, then you haven't really got a sustainable product ..I'd not take the gig, but then what sort of gig would it pan out to be, anyway..!!! You can't rough it for 28 days... you have to leave the hotel early and be in the bus for the best part of the day, potentially and you need to pace yourself to do that. By week 3 ... you are wanting to go home ...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1417533358' post='2621437'] So reading it again: The wages and expenses were for employed musicians to back the duo. It's not a 'band' as we would normally understand it. So the Duo actually made a loss and didn't get paid wages or expenses. That puts a different slant on things. [/quote] I think you'll find the Duo paid themselves $2500 each for months work but lost $11,000 on the tour... I would say that is not doing too bad if sustainable, - they are building a career of it. The hired hands are on contract for the 28 days plus rehearsals... so possibly walked away with 6 weeks work at $1500 per week...AIUI.

[quote name='dudi8' timestamp='1417543108' post='2621554'] but lets say i understand some of the big costs of the more expensive companies (like fodera,MTD,ritter, etc), as they are using really expensive woods in their basses and it takes a very long time to build one, but what can be so expensive in a jazz bass? and i put sadowsky aside, because alleva costs more than twice than a sadowsky (if I'm not mistaken) [/quote] Talked to Martin P about this and his team of two can only make 40 odd basses a year with London expenses so he has two choices. Employ more people to cut down waiting times -which I think is around 12 months - and then lose MP actually doing the work on your bass and it is his craft that you pay for. Since most of the work is done by hand, you get a very long and expensive build process. Or...the alternative to that is more of a prodcution line which is the way Warwick went....and quite a few others who employ more than a handful of people... IMV Martin Petersen's gift is the reason you buy a Sei bass... and I assume other top end luthiers are all still involved in the making of the product that bears their name and they built their success on... or they should be. IMV.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1417595855' post='2622000'] I don't think MM players are any worse than anyone else... Everyone is far too sensitive about what others think of their gear choices. Who cares what anyone else thinks of your bass, you chose it and it's for you. People seem to need verification that they've made the correct choices by everyone else agreeing with them. I just don't get it. I love the Wal sound and I couldn;t give a sh*t if I was the only player in the world that liked it... I would still like it... I don;t need everyone else to agree with me, in fact I couldn't give a toss what anyone else thinks. [/quote] But they might not employ you because of it... and your refusal to accept that 101 people or whatever can't ALL be wrong. I get this swimming against the tide thing..and can quite embrace it from time to time, but MM does rather attract guys who get it wrong a lot and they are the first to ask how to fix it....IME. For some reason, they tend to say they don't understand amps... but if the don't understand the EQ on the amp, they aren't going to get to understand it on the bass either. I've even known them to take a pic of their settings on the amp so they can return to a 'default' mode. As it happens the guys who do this have MM basses, all play the same way and even use the same amp, saying it is a classic sound...but they don't actually know how to get that sound.. It is all muddled thinking to me and it is probably unfair to single out MM... but that is the way it goes around here. But... you ( anyone ) might think you have a great sound, but if nobody else does, I'd take note of that hint myself... It can be the same with gtrs.... they have their pre-determined version of bass players...and they might just want someone who sits there and doesn't rock THEIR boat....which is a very selfish way to go about and play music, IMO.

Just have a play with them.... they are the usual custom mappings that a lot of makers now use; a bit like 'timbre', enhance', 'aural' which featured on amps like the Thunderfunk and previously Eden and SWR. They are varible presets...or maps.

[quote name='M@23' timestamp='1417377375' post='2619770'] I've posted these before, will have to get some more taken! [/quote] I wouldn't have picked that combo but it looks great...

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1417532357' post='2621425'] It depends on how long he's been playing. If there's potential for him to become a good drummer & is already a good band member, then why not work with him. If he's been playing for yonks & isn't improving any, then I wouldn't stay. [/quote] I don't know how long they've been playing..all I know is what they deliver when on the gig. I don't arrived unprepared and if I did, I couldn't complain if I lost a gig... so the same applies. There are drummers around that deliver more, so it is not a case of making do. I get that having someone available, keen and willing to put in the time is worth a lot, but he can come back when he is upto it..

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1417528720' post='2621363'] It depends. If the band is for having fun down the local & you get on well with the drummer, help him. Why is he not good at timing? Get the band to practicee with a metronome to tighten up your sound. Work on just a couple of songs for an entire sesh until they're spot on. [/quote] But that is too much work for a fundemental skill, IMO... sometimes rehearsals themselves are at a premium so to spend this on a weak link seems a waste. I wouldn't be keen, I'd rather put the time in elsewhere ... Some players lag because they are flagging..so pacing the set might help but they might just not be fit enough for the job. I think any drummer that isn't match fit and lacks time..let along groove, isn't putting the time in.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1417517619' post='2621145'] Everyone has to play in time and in the groove, especially the drummer. Timing can vary, by a couple of bpm at most, but + or -15 bpm is very poor drumming and if the guy thinks that is OK and the excuse is Dave Grohl said so I'd call him out. There no point in leaving unless you can't fire the drummer. He's the one who should be going not you. [/quote] But if the rest of the band think he is ok enough.... then that in itself splits the band. I left for that very reason.. We had a world class player in the chair prior to a change of drummer which is hard/impossible for anyone to follow at certain levels, but you have to make a stand. What I can't believe is what people can't hear that is wrong..!!!

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1417524451' post='2621279'] Well until other bands then start doing those songs you've just 'educated' them with [/quote] That is ok... we will have moved on by then anyway... Picking a set with a bit of imagination isn't that hard... it is the way you 'sell' it anyway.

I think it is great that he did it... probably made a lot of people's day. He seemed to do it with good grace... I can't see the problem... imagine what sort of stuff might have been made of it if he'd declined.. Just accept it for what it is... Good on him, in my book. And no, I am not a Who fan, fwiw...

Why not, if it brought something extra to the gig...

Yes... no question..or I wouldn't get involved for the same reason. Two things a drummer must have in my book, very good time and very good groove. This rules out the vast majority unfortunately... but there you go.

I can confirm that a TH500 with a pair of Berg AE12's gets the pub talking about them. Never had so many comments on the sound .... and I didn't think I played that well to be heard that well. It could well be the classic 'small' pub rig

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1417436271' post='2620250'] No – I would say that one of the biggest mistakes you can make is pandering to the audience too much! Obviously you have to play stuff that your audience knows and likes but if you let them in effect choose the set list, then even though you will get a good reception you will always be yet another band playing the same old songs that every other band does. None of our set list would be on any list of overplayed tunes yet anyone with a passing interest of the genre (I try to discourage people from promoting us as Classic Rock) would know pretty much every tune. Therefore, when we play Guns n’Roses tunes we bring out Nightrain rather than Sweet Child and we play Sin City rather than Whole Lotta Rosie for the AC/DC tunes. The audience knows every song but doesn’t hear the same as every other band playing the pub circuit and we seem to be picking up a decent following after a handful of gigs… [/quote] I do think bands should try and 'educate' an audience to a degree. I get the populist requirement but I think you should make an effort and do something different and well. Otherwise, you are just another band doing the other bands same songs over and over...

[quote name='gadgie' timestamp='1417433237' post='2620195'] Why is Ska more like a tribute band to you? and why do you thikn they are killing off venues? The bands that I see drawing a crowd in my town all seem to be rock bands that have been playing the same stuff for ages. Throwing in the odd new number as long as it falls into the genre. the last one was playing the same stuff as they were several years ago. I think the only reason people were there was because they went to see them years ago......and I mean yearrrrssss ago. Went to see them for the first time in 10 years and safe to say it was the worst gig I've seen in 2014 by a long way. [/quote] Ska is music that white guys can dance to .. and tribute bands are killing ticketed venues, IMO. That is to say that there are some very good tribute bands but there are some pretty average ones as well. They take up the bills that original bands could and should have... I include my covers band in this altho we will try and play a few originals, but basically we are as guilty as tribute bands.. Classic rocks bands around here don't draw a crowd as we've offered the most popular ones a bill share at more than a pub would pay them..and possibly more than they'd get at a party, on the proviso they sell a 100 tickets or so... no takers..!! And finally... a band that has been going for years has run out of steam and is more a social event than a musical draw.

There are only a couple of decent disco bands around here but they have to pick their pubs. ( I am not talking about Blues Bros type bands tho... who seem to have died off a bit ) It would be a train wreck if they pick the wrong one... Ska bands tends to cross over quite well and are able to charge on the door, but I file them with tribute bands - who seem to have killed a lot of venues. But we are getting into talking about pubs being too much work for the money and I can see why a blues 3 piece is the minimum effort that you can get away with...

And why it wont achieve fees outside the pub...

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1417429186' post='2620124'] The thing is I've seen these bands that do "something different", it's often played very well but to an empty room! [/quote] There is that... but it depends how well you do it, IMO. You either can connect or you can't. A good front man will get you there -cheaply- but we tend to use good singers and don't do anytthing he can't sing

[quote name='crez5150' timestamp='1417429105' post='2620122'] People fall into the trap of believing that Classic rock and Indie is what people want to hear on the pub circuit..... I think this is a bit off. Do people really believe that these are the only genre's the punters listen too? [/quote] Quite, I am somewhat quite surprised by the diversity of some peoples tastes and I'd say classic rock was very very condescending... but by the same token you need to look at who gets out and watches live music. I think the subject is fascinating. In a local town which has enough work for bands never to venture much further, classic rock bands don't get a look in but they may be perceived as very popular elsewhere. In my town, it is classic rock and it is done to death. Disco bands don't get to play the pubs but then they probably don't want/need to either. Very little market there... but................... the biggest draw in the central town music pub is a Disco and he can charge twice as much as most of the popular bands. We set up the band to do songs that others couldn't or wouldn't do... but we did make a populist change to a 90's set so in came Killers, We have an energy that gets people so we start the set at a pace that other bands try to finish on. It is all about the gears you have. But..... that can be an incessant onslaught as well and I think the band has lost its way and there is no thought put into it all. It is time to end it.