JTUK

Plenty of 'old timers' round here still get the gigs and some of it might just be 'jobs for the boys'...which is the same sort of clique, inverted, that the young dudes cultivate. I think it has always been the same.. you can play, you know people and you get along ... I find it hardest on the drummers as they just can't do their stuff anymore.. so in that case, 'less is more'...cos it has to be...

Interesting question. The music schools are working hard getting these people ready and the one big thing they seem to concentrate on is the business side, which makes them very aware of networking and promoting themselves. It is a fine line as this might get a bit much in your face as they can be relentless in this regard. This does not make them the best musicians but their self PR will imply as much. There is a repeated school of thought that they often sound the same and lack real soul, but then you could say old skoolers paying their dues lack some of that as well.. All you hope is that the cream rises to the top eventually. A good player is a good player and schooling is no bad thing but it does not make the player, IMO. The best muso round here ( IMO ) put all his time in working at it (and was gigging whilst at school age ) and along with his massive talent got him to the top... There is no one else who gets close in terms of the player he is. A lot of acts are trawling the schools now as they can get these very decent players cheap as there isn't the money in the game any more. The older guys wont work for that and they are probably too old for the act anyway.

I had a PV 130 combo and whilst the BW was bombproof, and the amp stage appeared to handle anything...the one flaw it had was the sound. To get any useable volume you have to max out the mid sweep and it sounded awful... but I think you'd be flogging the ampo mercifully to get 80watts or so... TE came along and wiped them out...and TE weren't the arbiters of sound at that time either, but at least they hit decent useable volume levels, IME Agree about the handles though... the combo could take its abuse which is why people refer to them fondly...

The gtrs are too loud in your space.... Get them to sort it out and if they can't or wont, leave them to it. I don't see much point perservering in situations like this... ( by the sounds of it ) Who says no point in adding a cab..?? No point in you sounding 'sh*te' and compromising your sound and gig if the others wont meet you more than half way in this instance..

Do your ears ring after the gig? 3-or 4 piece ? as there is NO way you shouldn't be able to hear yourself in a 3 piece.

Don't find them a help or a hinderance so I'd stick with the traditional radius of a Fender type board but if I was having a bass commissioned, I'd had a nats radius on it.

Both are great cabs IMO, the DB is more old skool, full and decent mids and the SL112 has more focus in the mids in quite a pleasing sound... I tend to think of them both as typical of their genre...as in Ceramic or NEO. I prefer ceramic but the SL112 is a great cab in its own right...especially with the TH amp, IMO...and since that would be my combo, I am not sure which I would go for... but if I had to choose, I'd go for SL112. I would always pair them tho, whichever cab I choose. FWIW..I feel the DB design match is with the DB amps and the SL is for TH500..ideally.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1416856796' post='2614386'] If you find the 2x10 that you like the sound of, then there's no reason why two of them shouldn't be able to cover all your bases. But then if the rig you have works for you, why change? [/quote] I think I can bottom out 2x210 with a 750w amp into 4 ohms. The cabs take 700w combined and whilst I doubt I am hitting anywhere to close to 750w... I feel I can hear the 2x210's working very hard so I went with the DB212 as I loved it in the shop. It was only when I traded it for a 4ohm version that I noticed the sound change. I now intend to run small gigs thru a TH500 in TKS S112's and I am pretty sure that will give my the lightweight and clarity I want... and my bigger gig will be the DB750 thru DB212 + DD210. I can live with the DB212 sound on its own..easily, as long as my strings aren't too gunky... as I don't like the sound to be too fat...as opposed to being full.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1416873562' post='2614689'] There was a nasty period of PF500's going bang. Seems to have been cured now. [/quote] Is that the general feeling that they problem has been cured..??? It would be good if true.. as I rather like that little amp.

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1416913707' post='2614892'] I am curious to see how the the thread might play out the first time somebody has a criticism of this outfit or their products. Given the special status they have on this forum, it could be interesting. I don't think that will happen any time soon, as their stuff looks well thought out and well executed, but there's always one! It strikes me that they and Barefaced have slightly different approaches, as Barefaced have poured money into having new drivers developed for the Gen 3 cabs, while TKS are using off-the shelf components but offer sharper cosmetics, more options and seem to be a little more on the ball with customer relations. [/quote] There is only one line I'm interested in from TKS...and that is the S112 cabs. The other cabs aren't in my thoughts but I do buy into the idea that the desgner knows what he is doing, knows how to get that sound and makes it very well. The custom options are a nice touch ...not so fussed about the cabs ( standard finish ) that someone suggested looked like Barefaced cabs myself even tho I would ask how they thought they looked the same..??? Some people also have a good cosmetic eye and you can see this in most of the custom options from TKS, IMO, plus a close up look at the build so for the price, I think they are very competitive. No surprise here if I said I don't see where the money for a BF cab goes tbh... but you make your own choices for your own reasons.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416917345' post='2614947'] So, serious question, do you actually use Markbass (which you seem to be saying) or are you not a big fan (which you also seem to be saying)? [/quote] I don't own Markbass...it would be a bit odd if I did, after what I tend to think about them, but a rehearsal facility has one as does a friend so I get to play them frequently enough. Also, a band I dep with supplies a 12 combo with a 12 underneath so sometimes it is easier and I've used them on stages when the load-in has really ruled out bring your own. Funnily enough, when I've asked what is being supplied they said TE or Ashdown, which filled me with a degree of trepidation, but the Ashdown 210 combo wasn't too sad at all, tbh...so I was happier, and then they swapped the backline for Markbass !!!! arhhh..!! In short I get to play them quite a bit and regard them as a bit like TE..as in 'meh', but you find they get everywhere and are hard to avoid. They are in the 'never ever playing thru that' category though, of course... I just don't have much of a preference or regard for them.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416845787' post='2614197'] You mean like TKS? [/quote] No, I didn't ..as it happens. I think they have been around long enough but are only new to the U.K market...

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1416842696' post='2614155'] ................ Is it really as simple as that? People with Markbass amps don't like Barefaced cabs? [/quote] Not a big fan of Markbass amps or rather the LM series either, or their cabs for that matter. I've used the LMll a lot in a 102 combo and also have used them as supplied backline and whilst I like the combo at lower volume levels, I find the amp gets an unpleasing harshness when pushed.. which I invaribly have to do. Coupled with that...the cabs have this pillow dullness to them typically, so I've all but given up on them, tbh. Markbass class D and NEO really doesn't suit what I want to hear... and if you throw in a Lakland passive Jazz you get wrong wrong wrong but strangely you get this combo A LOT... ??? Must be me then...

Was at the RAH last night for Jackson Browne and you knew the bass was there but you only heard any definition when solo'd... and I was in a good seat in a box right in line with an array. Could see what P.A it was, but must admit, a little underwhelmed by the bass sound. I think the Engr has his hands full with the dueling steel gtr and lead gtr, plus organ, 2 bv's who were excellent and main vox... I'd say the top end was very very good, the bottom,.... not so much.

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1416839551' post='2614089'] Why not go for two of the 8 ohm 2x12s you like? [/quote] I don't have the gig for it... I initially wanted 2x210 which is also an option that I retain, but the 212 and 210 works great for me so that is my big stage rig and the 4 ohm, 8 ohm thing is what I've settled for in terms of power spread. Sound-wise, it is great so I am protecting the 210 when running high levels of a potential 750/4 ohms output. This is now also why I am keen to fine-tune my small lightweight rig so I can get the tone and clarity of 212/210 into 2x112's which mean the 12" have to work or be able to work harder tonally across the frequency range. Of course, I will have to compromise on the sheer weight and authority of the big rig sound, but there you go.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1416834339' post='2613995'] Funny. You know how I discovered BF cabs? Through one heated thread about something or another about them. One of teh usual ones I had no experience nor opinion, but I did get the impression "man, there really are a few guys hellbent on criticising!". It seemed to me the vociferous (sometimes tedious too) side were a handful of anti-BF. I could name a couple of names, but if you followed BF threads, you'll know exactly who they are. It baffles me. It also baffles me that they are surprised when someone gets a bit fed up and call them on it. As it turns out I ended up with a pair of BF myself, as they satisfied my "light and loud" criteria, and although I'm not in love with them, I like them enough to not need to get rid off them any time soon. I have my criticisms about them too. I don't think they're the best sounding. But they do a decent job. For me. I can't think of many bits of equipment that I love 100%. There's always something that could be better. There are some bits of equipment I positively dislike. I may have contributed a couple of times disclosing why I don't like them, if it was appropriate, but I don't go around participating in every single thread about them to state how much I hate them and insist about it... because I think there's a difference between giving your negative opinion and being obnoxious, and the latter is going to elicit a response, sooner or later. So don't be surprised when it happens I'm glad I wasn't so vocal about my dislike for Precisions, because I truly hated them, for years. THAT would attract some flak! Especially as I eventually found a Precision that I fell in love with. But that's another story. The comment about the vultures did not surprise me at all... what surprises me is that, well, there's someone who hasn't shown up yet to the party, but he will [/quote] The thing that makes me laugh is if you ( anyone ) has an opinion, then you hope they have formed it properly so therefore they will stand by it. FWIW, I've had pops ( for want of better words ) at Markbass, Precisions and Stangrays recently. I am stating a view on why I don't like them. I don't expect a life long user to be worried about what I think as they are happy ..and more to the point, confident, that they have it right for them. I know my opinions as I have formed them over a period of time, generally, so I know what I like and want. Since this is a discussion board, there will be times when you bump others opinions.. but it seems to me that the complainents of this seem a little peeved that everyone else doesn't share their unbridled joy.. as though being a member of a club isn't quite the one way street they'd thought it would be.. Maybe they aren't that confident on what they have or what they want...?? Anyway, it doesn't matter, there will be a new kid on the block sooner or later.. and we get gas again...?? But don't start me on the TB club thing... please don't go there..!!!!!

[quote name='spacey' timestamp='1416832887' post='2613969'] Having a did, it looks like a private promoter who then makes a donation to this charity involved. Apparently the charity involved state it is confidential information what donations are made and the only accounts they produce are total donations, individual donations are confidential. I am starting to see why he might be so offended by my questions. [/quote] Of course...which was also my point in my thread... That is why I am happy to give our fee, and then everything else is not my business... but if he wants our services for free, I'll need a bit more than 'its for charity'... and most bills are handled by a promoter these days and it is hard work... so I'd expect them to want to be paid.. which is why I don't get why they don't seem to want to pay the bill..???? That is the way I generally 'read' these things..

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1416833198' post='2613974'] Fair enough if everyone knew the deal, but it sounds a bit of a desperate business. Still, kudos to your friend for 'stealing' the gig - he must have certainly impressed! [/quote] They all know each other in that scene... and he did impress as when the call came from another Scottish unit that had problems prior to a big tour, they asked this first band who to get..and they pointed him to the same guy. Having payed with him, I can certainly get a feel for what it takes..or rather how good those top guys are.. He doesn't do those gigs anymore but his contempories still do.... so technically, I am sure he could get back to that level. As it is..he is sort of on the local scene and he is by far and away the best player by some considerable way of anyone on any instrument around here...or at least what I know of... and I think I know a lot of the guys. IMO, of course.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1416827142' post='2613877'] Yes one of the guys on the plane could have been even better... [/quote] My mate knew who was on the audition trail and he didn't think they'd get the gig over him... but if they'd got there first, maybe they would have done enough. The standard was such that the London session scene was after this gig, so none of them were bad players... so I can see why getting there first would be desirable..??? Everyone was responsible for their own travel costs..

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1416827063' post='2613875'] I can understand 'a bird in the hand' and all that, but it seems a bit harsh on the guys still on the plane . . . [/quote] That is the deal at that level... and my friend knew the London guys were onto the gig so it was often a case of who got there first. He also knew there was NO WAY they were getting the gig as he knew the players. I don't know how they dealt with the other guys who were mid travel... but those are the risks you take. My friend was at a trade show in Manchester so as soon as the word went out...everyone got in gear. The London guys must have known the urgency as they decide to get the plane upto Scotland..

I must admit what with all the BIG TV campaigns it is pertinent to ask where the money goes..?? I do this for most of the festivals we get involved in when we give them a fee, if they give us the charity angle. There are too many charity beer festivals around here which tend to be for 'charity' so I think it is pertinent to ask as nicely as you can where the money went last year... Of course, you may well lose the gig on it...but you'll gauge whether it is worth it. I had a bit of a sing-song with a 'promoter' abou their costs and how much cheaper they were than gigs they percieved as comparable....when I ask if they paid the bands. They said they didn't so as to maximise the charity donation but I noted that really didn't pan out. Bottom line £5 entrance and sold out in a field so must assume a good few thousand... with a free band bill against a Tented festival with a few thousand thru the door at £6 per head plus camping etc etc but with a music bill costing £5k OIRO including P.A, lights and staging costs.... and the latter posted better figures to their charities, iirc.. so I would be thinking where the money went with regards to the former..?? Fair question, IMO..and one that he SHOULD be prepared to answer ..and some!!!

You could sell the rig, but then you have the downsize in the TH500 and 1 DB112 option so you don't need to do anything, as far as I can see. What could be a smaller combo than a TH500 and single DB112 cab..?? plus it has the sound you want..?? I'd value that rig around £1100 SH..?? so maybe you could get some money back with a combo...? Depends how sure you are on the longevity of the band..??

I saw the advantage of a 4 ohm 212 at 600w being paired with a 8 ohm 210 at 350w. I could then run both on a bigger stage without the 210 getting a high load from a 750w delivery. I heard the 210 bottom out so I made the switch from 8 ohm 212 to 4... so the 4 ohm resistance would accept and handle the majority of the power. Like a crude cross-over effort, if effect. Whilst the 212 and 210 works very well..and as intended, the 4 ohms 212 on its own doesn't work as well for me. If I only used the 212...I'd want the 8ohm 212 back as I loved that sound from that standalone unit.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1416815748' post='2613741'] Does that not strike you as an incredibly arrogant comment? [/quote] Not really... but to put it into some sort of context... Examples of things I've come across recently... You have a bass heavy amp..paired with a bass heavy cab and you then have to ask questions about boom and do you need a gamma.... Or that so much bass coming out is a tone killer combination.. or...you want the cab to be ultra clean and so you get out what you put in... but then you add a pre signal to dirty things up.. These approaches sound muddled to me...

A friend of mine got a very high profile gig after the second track of the audition and they opened a bottle of scotch on the deal whilst the other guys were still on the plane from London for it... so, yes, I agree, if they have more people to see, they aren't that convinced