JTUK

[quote name='BassBus' timestamp='1422227953' post='2670202'] In a word, no! Depends where you are playing on the neck. If you are playing further up towards the body end then it will be easier to play one finger one fret. Playing nearer the nut it will be more difficult, so use the 1,2,4 fingering over three frets. Dave Marks has something to say about it in the clip below. [media]http://youtu.be/eXkxu_7Tn48[/media] [/quote] Its basic common sense and the video explains it easily. If you watch a lot of people...which in this day and age, it is VERY easy on the likes of youtube, you'll see that 'rules' are merely common sense guidelines, IMO

I can fully understand that a guy can want to set a limit on how 'available' he has to be... You play in the band and you want that interaction at the gig but when you go home you have your real life. Why do fans think they are owed anymore than what the product being sold is... Fans are fans... they buy albums and see shows but how much more they feel they deserve, is their problem, not the players. Anymore than that, and we aren't talking mere fans, IMO. Seems weird to me....

You'd know what all this means better than any of us... but the gigs they showcase can look ok... The website is clumsy and not very pro, IMO, and neither is the recording but then they seem to have a good profile ..? I think you'd take it seriously if they paid you well enough but is it me...?? I can't see a gig list which would be the most important thing you'd put on a website..??? I can see thery have an up coming gig on a splash page but not a list of gigs..??

[quote name='ubit' timestamp='1422950018' post='2678639'] I really don't understand when you are a new band, play a blinder, the pubs rammed, the owner raves about how much he enjoyed it, the locals all say that was the best night we've had in here for ages, and you never hear from them again. [/quote] No, I wouldn't understand that either.. I'd assume something didn't work for them or they are just being polite?

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1422901548' post='2678140'] Over here getting calls from LLs is rare. It does happen and it's usually when a band cancels and they need a replacement. Could be a cultural thing,we could have a great night, place is packed and the bar busy all night. Over here the LLs do not attribute that extra business to the band. Many of the places we play have what we call built in crowds. Meaning the club/pub does good business all the time regardless of what band is playing. Blue [/quote] A music venue or pub here puts on music and the band IS the draw. Some venues have their own regular music fans but the pub wants you to bring yours in so doubling the attendence. Now, there are so many pubs trying music that this waters down the music going public, but even back in the good old days when a town only had one decent music pub, the pub still had to get and book the best bands. In some ways, with the amount of venues/pubs around now, there are so many opportunities to play than I recall before and bands that wouldn't stand a chance of playing pubs now get gigs. I am not sure this is a good idea, myself and I've always though the relaxing of getting a music license was a poor idea exactly for this reason. I know people will bemoan certain venues going bust, but I think around here the music scene is very vibrant but the reason why fees are so low is because there are so many bands working....or trying to work. A local studio rehearsal studio owner was telling me...that in a town of 130k or so, he thought there would be over 100 bands ..??? and he was serious.

[quote name='TheRev' timestamp='1422874798' post='2677697'] "Is that a 'cello?" "Why did they give the shortest person in the band the biggest instrument?" (I tell 'em we drew straws and I lost). Most annoying one was at a recent gig in Weymouth. Very drunk woman at the front shouting "oi! Do you do weddings" all the way through the first set and getting really arsey that we wouldnt talk to her there and then. Got collared by her during the break where she ranted on about how rude we were and that she wanted to book us for her sisters wedding (even though she described her sister as "a c**t"). I said we were already booked for that date (which was true) "I don't care about that" she says "you're f***ing playing. You only need to play for an hour so you'll do it for free cider" [/quote] sounds like she'd had too much of her 'product'

The other thing that occurs to me...he seems to have an awful lot of opnions for someone who doesn't gig.. My first retort to him would be 'how would he know' but then that would also mark the beginning of the end somehow, no doubt..!!

I think one of them doesn't want to gig and is putting any excuse he can find to hinder the whole reason for the band in the first place. 8 months is way too long and you've been too patient. I think bands should have gigs lined up before they even start. It doesn't matter how many songs you have if you never get out there and play them... I'm surprised you've lasted this long, tbh..

I dislike bare necks.... and I think it is a cut corner idea that has caught on but I'll always want mine finished. Those gruby necks look awful to me....disgusting even

The other thing is where..?? Getting into London for £1500 is cheap by their ability to pay so you'll only give that price out once and you'll need to carry the gig off. You'll need to impress the booker ... and they'll get feedback from the client, but what both are looking at may well differ hugely. The client wants an event that is a 'success', of course, whereas the booker might be more interested in working for the hotel more than they are working for you... so the smooth running of the evening becomes critical. The P.A, lights and stage need to be very good and unobstrusive and by some token, so do the band. A lot of this is so much about presentaion rather than a spiffing band. It can be more important to look great and have cables tied away than the music as most bookers and clients don't know what is what..but you can't dismiss the fact that they are ultimately paying... I just think it is easier to pull off the music-side than running the whole show by clockwork. Even things like parking permits and arrival times are a headache to be dealt with by someone so you'll not want such a simple fail on your record. IMO.

Did showcases years ago, but wasn't committed enough back then. Now, I'm not interested in function work on a regular basis as we focus on parties...same money, upto a point... ie £1k. Most bands might start with pubs and do a wedding or party from it but there is always the difference in money. Many bookers might say you work pubs for this and yet for their event you want to charge them 3 or 4 times that..?? This is why you shouldn't consider yourself a pub band, IMO. Good bands get noticed and gigs leads to other gigs but I'm not sure of quite a few wedding show auditions..?? depends how much time you get. If I wanted to get into a high flying function circuit, then I'd invest money in that, hoping that the first couple of gigs would pay for the investment. Things like showreels are ok... but the best method is word of mouth... and once you get a GOOD in, maybe sure you get another invite from it. You wont do any of this without gigging and developing a track record tho..??

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1422836297' post='2677483'] [size=4][font=Arial]With gigs being tough to get and bands keeping their calendar full I thought I'd throw this topic out there for discussion.[/font] [font=Arial]While this pertains to unrepresented bar/pub bands, please everyone chime in.[/font] [font=Arial]For bar bands that want to make decent coin, you can't rely on "one off " gigs. You need to know how to re-book. [/font][/size] [size=4][font=Arial]I think, if a band could win 12 pubs and keep them on the calendar and in a proper rotation they would have it made. [/font] [font=Arial]Easier [/font][font=Arial]said than done. Over here, on this side of the pond you can have a great night in terms of the crowd and booze sales for the LL[/font][font=Arial] and still get [i]" blown off "[/i] by the LL or the manager when it comes time to re-book. I'm thinking LLs are the same in the UK?[/font] [font=Arial]My band, we like to book 3 dates at a time with LLs, I think that's reasonable. [/font] [font=Arial]I have seen many newbie's make this mistake. They play a gig and have a great night, good draw and booze sales. They leave happy and actually [/font][font=Arial]think the LL see's the night through their eyes and will call them to re-book. Yeah, sure I guess that could happen, it's logical. But, I would bet[/font][font=Arial] that every veteran pub guy on this forum would laugh and say; [i]"Sure,but don't hold your breath for that call."[/i][/font] [font=Arial]What are your thoughts an ideas for the working pub band to keep that colander full and everyone have that extra $200.00 - $300.00 in their wallet. I'm sure[/font][font=Arial] we have some folks here that have expertise in re-booking gigs.[/font] .......................... BTW, knowing your age and experience level will help generate the best appropriate response. [font=Arial]Blue[/font][/size] [/quote] Around here, no LL will blew off a band that can pull very well...unless there is a personal conflict, so therefore LL's and pubs WILL chase the most popular bands. They know who works for them.. and in some cases, they just like that type of music so since it is their deal, they have to afford that indulgence... but basically the LL/venue need the gigs to work for them and that means the band needs to pull enough to sell alcohol. I keep an eye out for the numbers we pull in certain pubs as it helps us negotiate more money but we want the gig to be a good gig rather than a fantastic payer as pubs are loss leaders and too much work for the money, IMO..and the rest of the band. If we are the best draw the pub has..or one of them, we want the most money...but there is a ceiling and equation that needs to work all round.

If we go into a new pub ..just to try it out, we'll want to make an impression, but we wont take a repeat booking on the night... but both parties will know whether they want to follow things up. We leave it to them to contact us and we'll chase them up if we think we are low on dates. For a decent venue, once we've established a decent working relationship we just agree a time when to follow up and book the year in. But... there aren't that many pubs we want to do and we don't take saturdays in the summer.. or at least not far in advance as all our best gigs are on a sat in the summer, pretty much and the pay more than pubs. Basically we do 5 or so regular pubs and will play them 3 or 4 times a year.

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1422664889' post='2675529'] I won't play it,not because it's beneath me or any crap like that, but because I think it's a sh*t song. my band gets plenty of gigs so the alternatives we play must be as valid or, dare I say it, even better. Some were even written this century. Let me posit the argument that the younger audience aren't drinking in pubs so much because all they ever hear is alright now, mustang Sally and Johnny b good, getting thraped. Time to move on. ; ) [/quote] Might be quite an element of truth in that. We turned a corner when we started to cater for a younger crowd as we felt the older guys had so many bands doing 80's stuff. Pubs do well out of 80's but larger gigs need a larger spread, IME.. An older gig-goer will keep buying albums/cd's etc etc ..but younger people tend to stick more with their era... What you can do is bring them on... but they don't turn out in numbers regularly for a 70's/80's only band, IMO..

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1422734313' post='2676320'] If the idea of still gigging and playing in your senior years is appealing to you ( If your 20 I don't really know how you would even know whats going to be appealing to you when your 60, if you make it till 60. Some don't). This might be 30-40 years out for many of you, I have one bit of advice. Choose the bands you work with very carefully, if you start developing a history of playing in bands that don't meet your requirements and always end up a disappointing experience chances are you'll put your bass to rest far before it's time. I am lucky, I don't know how I ended up with a 50 year history of what I can sum up in one word,[b][i] "Fun!"[/i][/b] Blue [/quote] I'd agree. there are some bands you shouldn't touch and likewise some players. This is why I am not in a bands with my mates that I was starting with. It is not about your mate, it is about what music you can play...and if someone gave up for 3 years or so, it is up to them to catch up or just be ready enough. Having said that, a mate did give me a call after years and years and we were able to have a really good band for 5 years. What that also did was bring out of the woodwork other old mates and they wanted to 'reform'... From my POV, that wasn't going to happen. The reason you move on is to do something different and hopefully, better. And I honestly think that when that can't happen anymore, then I'm done... ???

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1422735023' post='2676328'] Again, astute commentary above. A lot of us guys that have been out there on the front lines of gigging for 50 years can walk into a pub or bar prior to a gig and sum up just about every detail. What the the room will be like in terms of your sound, attendance projection, and overall vibe and energy. And yes it's a constant learning curve. Blue [/quote] Yep...one of the other things I can do is instantly sum up a player or a band... I can tell within seconds whether I'll like them..the drummer can hit his skins in a mini fill and I'll know..same with a lot of other players. Once the band plays a song, I'll also know what they've got and whether it will be enough to interest me. I just seem to know what I am looking for very quickly... So, yes, a lot of experience can make you confident that you can just do 'it' and at what level you can operate. After that, its just chemistry and then you'll have a very good band at the level you gig, IMO.

I'm not keen on ads at the best of times as I tend to network without them...but this is merely a taster and I 'm not sure they are doing themselves any favours with the minimalist approach. Of course, you'd try and research more but I think less 'desperate' players would give this a miss from the start. So..you'd ask, what is the point of this advert..

I'm liking this atm [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXtbJ31Fw-0"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXtbJ31Fw-0[/url]

[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1422611314' post='2674529'] it is a tricky one, but we've turned gigs down if gigs in one town are too close together, apart from anything else your regular fans will get pissed off with seeing you, went to see a band in the main music venue in my home town and there was hardly anybody there, then found out they'd played the pub over the road a fortnight before, in my book that's unprofessional behaviour and something I wouldn't do [/quote] Agree.... but it is only really a factor if attendences are hurt and you wont know that until they've played, and been paid. I think this is an unhelpful selfish attitude by bands .. This kind of re-enforces my idea or preference that bands should agree a min fee and then have bonuses paid if and when they excel. This will help the landlord in his costing and benefit the bands that pack the place out as they have obviously hit the mark..and get rewarded for their 'efforts'.... There are one or two units here that work full time and they insist on £300 fees..or did, but apart from them not being that good, I've never seen them do too well with attendences either so I don't know how they get away with it for so long..??? That leads me to think there is more money/profit in a crowd than I'd expect. On the basis that I think there is around £1.50 'profit' on a pint...you need to sell 150-ish pints to pay the band £200 but that doesn't take into account other costs, of course.. A barrel of beer might cost the tied LL £115 and with wastage..?? what is that, 80 pints at £3.50=£280..less £115 =£165 'profit'..??? Ballpark figures, IMV...and only on beer sales.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1422563645' post='2674220'] We had pubs ask us not to play a local venue within 4 weeks of their gig and vice versa, but since we were selling tickets it made sense not to play a local pub too closely..as that would hurt sales. The pubs even lobbied the Brewery who put the gigs on.. and we did agree to a 4 week limit but that was only because the venue was paying up a LOT more than a pub fee and we wanted to keep it as it was a very good and prestigous gig from our POV. [/quote] The simple maths is, is the pub gig/gigs worth more per year in terms of cash than the one bigger/better gig..? and which gig do you like most..?

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1422557773' post='2674132'] I think this came up earlier, any band can't get gigs. Someone in the band has to know how to sell their band, get and book gigs. I know of several really good bar bands that for whatever reason can't promote and get gigs and there are marginal bands that can promote and gig consistently. IMHO it can be said like this; [i]"being good alone does not guarantee gigs" [/i] Blue [/quote] It must be different here... as I honestly believe any band can get gigs. Of course, they may be full of it, but they can blag dates and they can be truly awful..and I have heard them, but if the pub is rammed and the LL is tone-deaf, they'll get rebooked. And if I was the LL, and I hated a band that packed out the pub...however, I'd be upstairs with the headphones on. So, even if we are kind of saying the right thing, any band can get gigs here. And if a band is good enough, venues and pubs will hear of it and pursue them.

[quote name='chrismuzz' timestamp='1422562758' post='2674211'] My band got taken off a support slot in Wolverhampton because we are playing Birmingham 4 weeks beforehand. Now that's weird! [/quote] We had pubs ask us not to play a local venue within 4 weeks of their gig and vice versa, but since we were selling tickets it made sense not to play a local pub too closely..as that would hurt sales. The pubs even lobbied the Brewery who put the gigs on.. and we did agree to a 4 week limit but that was only because the venue was paying up a LOT more than a pub fee and we wanted to keep it as it was a very good and prestigous gig from our POV.

I think you want a relationship with LL's so you need to try and keep it cordial and reasonable and no one is really going to want to play down the road within 2 weeks or so...but sometimes the diary gets a little close and there is nothing they can really do. If someone tries to tell you what you can do..you really need to decide if you have much of a relationship to rescue.. 4 miles is a ridiculous limit tho... and I'd ignore that. Some bands play the same town every week but I assume they get crowds not to worry about it. I think you'd bore people if you were too frequent in a locale. We pick 2 pubs per town...there really isn't that many good music venue pubs anyway, and say that is as much as we'd do..and of course, we'd try not to play on top of dates..but that isn't the pubs call. If bands play too close to together and attendences suffer, then so will their fee bargaining.. Just needs a little common sense by all, IMO.

When a string goes off, it is just as much about the feel as the sound.. I find the feel comes first and really determines the time to change..