JTUK

[quote name='SpaceChick' timestamp='1423076539' post='2680442'] Haven't read the whole thread yet, but yes. Guy Pratt was AWESOME helping me. He sorted out my pedal settings remotely for some of my set list tracks. He was friendly, helpful and happy to support simple old me playing in a Floyd tribute band when he'd spent time being the main man in Floyd after Roger Waters departure. I can honestly say his support was outstanding and really humbling to see such a legend prepared to help a fellow far less experienced bassist....... And then the community treated him badly and he left [/quote] Which is what we've ( collectively ) done over and over.

I'll change my stainless rounds when they feel off..and that is normally before they go off totally soundwise. So, in terms of time, that is about 6 weeks, altho cleaned up strings might go earlier. Once I've cleaned them a few times, I'll throw them out.

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1423073228' post='2680387'] Which would mean, if I've understood you correctly, that the vast bulk of musicians playing in symphony orchestras don't count as professionals (otherwise they'd be working as soloists in their own right because only soloists - who by definition are the ones at the top of their particular game - count as professionals). Is that correct? Or are you only joking around - bit of a larf? I ask in all seriousness, because I can't see what else would explain such an, er, unusual claim. No offence intended. [/quote] No, I understand the standard that [b]some[/b] orchestral players are at.. I make the distinction that because someone makes a living at music makes them professional but is no garantee that they are a pro standard.... and I tried to make clear that the only real degree of pro that really means anything is someone of an exceptional standard, ...IMO. Any bod can be pro by virtue of making money at it... some buskers could be considered pro by that regard. I am not demeaning it so much as quantifying that, as far as I am concerned. Other people might be happy with it...but there is no way my old piano teacher who biffs out a few choons with his ham-fisted style is a pro, from my POV. But he doesn't do anything else by way of income..!! Others may have a different take on it

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1423067269' post='2680285'] I dunno? I've met quite a few pro footballers. Can they articulate about their sport with any insight? I've met quite a few pro musicians.... PS Never meet your heroes. [/quote] Same thing and a fascinating subject about what it takes to play at a level most of us can only imagine.. Friend of mine ...hard crafting midfield destroyer, not too much skill ... was playing at local Conference type level and he said he was marking Peter Taylor in a game.. He said he was really looking forward to it and baring in mind Peter Taylor was nearing 40 or so at the time. I asked him how he got on as he was so much younger and he said he couldn't get NEAR him..even enough to kick him as the speed of movement and thought was on another level.. Just to remind people ...Peter T was capped for England 16 or so times, iirc... so just imagine how good was Gazza..and he struggled to speak... just as well he didn't need to play football.... That is why you need to get close to these people to know/understand how good they are... IMO Best muso I've played with may have been considered world class in his time and IMO, he is still the best player around in our little world ...BY FAR... and that is a pretty decent pool with some very decent players in it... but its all relative..IMO.

[quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1423066843' post='2680275'] ...which pretty much excludes around 95% of the people who consider themselves professional musicians. I suspect we're destined to disagree on this one. You see, in my book what you're talking about here is not professional musicians but elite musicians (whatever that might mean). [/quote] Yes, I agree, which is why I bracketed my answer as such. I am not not acknowledging them as professionals from an ability to earn POV.

[quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1423053752' post='2680003'] Some people's opinions are wrong mate [/quote] Or... some people's musical compass etc etc see.......we can go round and round and round here. Don't really want to throw water on the fire..too much of that going on today, but I'll stand by what I said. No doubt about it.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1423059892' post='2680133'] I think I'm doing it wrong. I would have starved to death long ago if I had to rely on my music for a living [/quote] I doubt too many full time muso's I know earn much more than £20k p.a .. and £30k is exceptional and I doubt they do it by playing fees alone.

To me, the only definition of a pro really worth taking note of is someone who excels to such a degree that they are pretty much top of their game. And probably the 'inspiration' of this thread is pretty much at the TOP of the game. That is not to say other efforts are worthless, of course, but we are talking about a degree of excellence here in that the top people hire the TOP people. That is a rarified field indeed. Earning a living from music because you play in a function band that can pay you £30k a year is not the same thing. No offence to guys doing that and that is no easy thing to do, for sure, but it doesn't fall under my definition, FWIW. If you play with a REALLY good player, then you'll get an insight into what in means to be that good... you might not understand how they got there, but the people they work for get it...and will pay for it.

We could ask them what is lesson number 1 at a recording session .... Opps... no, we can't

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1423055281' post='2680038'] You're not seeing the full, original, picture, as the topic has been significantly edited. Not taking sides, simply saying that there's no point raking over those coals; they're ashes. [/quote] I agree, I never wanted it raked over again, but then threads like this crop up and here we are again. I was present in the original thread pre and post edits so I don't think my version or interpretation will change. If you don't want those ashes raked up, then you could have locked it because all you have now is people picking over the bones. I wouldn't be part of this thread had it been fair-minded..IMHO, of course

A way to look at it is who is available at what monies now..? Put in an ad and you'll get good players willing to travel 90mins to a gig for £150 plus exes, so that puts them in function band territory.

Well, a successful sideman in the 90's might be pretty well set up by now if he continued working even though today's rates are rubbish by comparison. In the 90's he'd be able to afford a Porsche with cash and buy his house outright, iirc.. and now he would be fighting with the collegue kids for a pretty high profile girl act who pays £150 a gig. Not saying the two acts/gigs are exactly comparable, of course, but there seems a MASSIVE difference.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1423052484' post='2679975'] There's a difference between saying "it can be used as a crutch" and saying "it's always used as a crutch" [/quote] I think you'll find he said he wouldn't recommend using one whilst playing... and that using one live is a crutch best left alone. As a generalisation, I'd say I'd agree, but I think I'd know how or why one was using one once I saw and heard that person play..

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1423051259' post='2679953'] I can't argue with any of that, it's a personal thing and I respect your opinion. However, if you were to extend that to say that any use of compression live is a "crutch" or compensation for lack of dynamic control, then I would have to disagree, and I might do so vehemently, as it implies a slight against my prowess as a player [/quote] I wouldn't use that term, but that is why a lot of people use it or have to use it. So, yes, you could apply it to people who don't have dynamic control over their playing.. There might be other reasons, but there might not..

Don't really know about the one against the other.. Not really a fan of the 5502 aesthetically and I'm not a huge fan of humbuckers full stop but if the JO5 is fundemenatlly the same as a DJ5 soundwise...??? then the passive Lakland needs a pre amp. I'm pretty sure they don't have one but a JE would liven it up. Sorry, not much help... I like the DJ in terms of the RW and blocks but I feel they lack character generally and are too polite a sound, hence the need for a pre amp install.

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1423050212' post='2679936'] .......................... I've read the thread in question, and I disagree.To argue that the use of compression when playing live is always a crutch for bad playing technique is definitely wrong. I can think of several situations where compression would be used as a sound shaping tool, and not as a crutch. Furthermore it is not an industry wide rule for professional players to not use compression when playing live, as clearly some of them do. There's nothing wrong with a difference of opinions. Obviously sometimes on the forum, people state their opinion as though it's a fact, and this does rankle, causing the sort of personal/insulting posts we saw on that thread [/quote] If you have very good dynamic control over your playing, which I think should be a goal, and something you incorporate in your practice regime, then compression at your monitoring source may not be required. I don't use it as I am happy for the peaks, especially, to come out within the confines of the styles I use, which is fingerstyle and slap. If I am working on anything else, I make a point of the dynamics speaking well and with clarity so you can hear them, The great goal is getting a amp/cab set-up that can handle this and speak well. An engr in the studio or on stage will likely add compression for their goals and mixes, but that is their remit and domain. I wont be adding in at my stage..as I don't feel I need to. I don't use pedals...so its me and the bass getting the signal down. Some players have a technique or style that requires compression at source, but that is the way they play and get their sound. You'd have to hear and watch them to get an idea why they need to...

[quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1423045976' post='2679870'] I enjoy all the BS and fun on this forum. In terms of stuff I've actually learned, most of it has been about the manipulation of sound. In particular 5imon's posts about compression and mixing have been very educational I like to share what I know about recording, mixing, and also effects. Although a lot of us on here have gigged all manner of crazy pedalboards, I don't know of many "pro" types who do the same, so I guess that's something they could learn about Stuff I think we could learn from Pros? Well, how to get the gigs for a start! [b]Other than that, they could join in the discussion of technique or sound on the same level as the rest of us. I don't see any reason to respect a "pro" opinion any more than an amateur opinion, unless it's about how to get pro gigs[/b] EDIT: It'd certainly be fascinating to hear pro players' studio experiences, in particular how certain sounds were made (if they were in on the mix) [/quote] Firstly, there are pro's and PROS The PRO did just that..he had an opinion that was shouted down immediately, and when he came back and said it wasn't actually his set of rules, it was the way the industry worked, he was hounded again... Now seriously, guys, picture this... you have a couple of weekend warriors of varying experiences telling this guy he didn't know what he was talkng about... Now that would be funny, but he was made out to be the arrogant and rude one....!!! I'd suggest the areas that he works in..with the people that he works with, with money not being the real driver in the project against the expertise and standard required...... so basically working with the best of the best, and this isn't a good enough reference for some people and he doesn't know what is what....?? Unbelievable......

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1423004346' post='2679579'] It would be nice to see some pro-players opinions on gear and how much they either get into it, or don`t. Having listened to quite a few bass isolated tracks the impression I get is that we on here are much more into the search for the eternal bass sound than they are, as many of those isolated tracks sound quite rough. [/quote] Lozz, I don't think you get to the top of the game if you don't have a really good sound down, and that means you know and have learned how to get it. You wont get a good gig sounding crap... IMO..

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1423000422' post='2679491'] I was just shocked at how badly a pro-player was spoken to on the compression thread. He did not wade in being the big 'I am', he just gave his opinion, as any member has the right to give their opinion. Straight off the bat the first reply was that his opinion was nonsense. it's almost as if through some kind of jealousy forges members to treat pro's badly, especially with the 'who do you think you are' kind of attitude. After that episode I'm not surprised real pro's do not come here. Who'd want to after all? [/quote] Got say, this is how I read it.

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1422999490' post='2679478'] If you think that's true, then this just about sums up just how amateur we are. [/quote] I'd agree... talk to someone who has a gazillion hours as a top level bass player in a studio career and you tell me he doesn't know his tone stack inside out. even if he didn't before, he will have worked with enough top class ears, again at the top of the tree of their trade, who would impart the knowledge. And if they don't take on board the required lessons, there will be another guy along who will.. They basically work at a level we never get to be exposed to....with talent we never get exposed to, with technology and expertise that we hardly get exposed to and certainly not consistant exposure. Cream rises to the top for a good reason and the fact that we are all different levels of some sort of cream tells us something...doesn't it...?? Unless we have all been incredibly unlucky in our music quests..

I've skipped a lot so as far as the OP goes.. I've met a few world class musicians and played with one or two, IMO, and I can say that musically I think they are on another planet. You wont get to where those guys have unless you have something Special.. Of course, some guys fluke a fantastic career but you don't get to 1st call status in a top muso town without being very decent indeed and that level and what it takes is not likely to be recognisable by most. So, you certainly learn from their skill levels and their inate musicality, plus if you delve deeper, you'll likely find a massive amount of practice and sacrifice... but that wont amount to that much unless they have something else...which the top guys have. Whatever is it, they have IT, IMO.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1422982007' post='2679134'] People who have owned both (I've only had an original Compact) say that the new Super Compact actually has [b][i]more[/i][/b] bottom end... [/quote] But that wouldn't be any sort of way to determine what the speaker size was anyway..and if anyone use frequency to tell,- as in which chassis went lower- they be barking up the wrong tree, IMO.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1422972614' post='2678999'] True. But despite the "science", many bassists still insist that they can hear a difference when changing cone sizes! [/quote] That is probably because they can... I'd be amazed if I couldn't tell the difference between a 10" and 15"

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1422967266' post='2678898'] I agree with you about the web-site. There is no pro photography and the recording is marginal. I also looked at some videos and saw at least one line up change for lead guitar. And yes, there was nothing on gigs which concerns me for a band that's been around this long. Blue [/quote] If I had to summise, I would say the band would equate to a typical pub band here. Their website has loads and loads of ad links though, which might add revenue but I wouldn't call that band particuarly 'pro' in any sense. But if it suits someones criteria to apply, then all well and good.

[quote name='mikechapmanhill' timestamp='1422974035' post='2679015'] How did those showcases go? Where did you do them? How did you find people to invite? [/quote] We were invited to go on the showcase which was a large hotel room and all the bands set up around the edges and you got a 20 minute slot each. The agents viewed each bands slot and came to talk to any band they were interested in after every band had played. I recall we had our band uniforms on and everything... Now, I think an agent would invite acts and then either film bands or just audition them there and then and then they'd sell the act to a prospective booker. Agents now invite bands to attend their showcases/fayres via FB groups and the like, typically.