Oggy

THANK YOU - THANK YOU - THANK YOU. I'm using book / CD combinations at the moment, its hard going but I'm getting there. Your sessions will make the process even more interesting. Oggy

[quote name='Oggy' post='786783' date='Mar 26 2010, 12:41 PM'][center][u][b]Is it a gift or a curse?[/b][/u][/center] Being able to ‘play by ear’ and ‘repetitive practice’ is one thing but it doesn’t come close to being able to pick up a sheet of music and read / play it. I’ve never had any formal, or informal for that matter, musical training. I’ve always loved music and singing and found that I have an ‘ear’ and am able, with a bit of practice, to interpret what I hear onto a bass guitar – great, as far as it goes. I’d love to be able to pick up a music sheet and play what I read. What’s the best way of achieving this dream when the curse of ‘an ear for music’ is upon me? I’d really like to be able to read but every time I sit down and try using one of the many CD / book combinations available, I get bored after five mins and go off on a totally unrelated bass line that’s in my head. Have any other Basschatters battled with the above? If you have managed to overcome the ‘ear thing’ please let me know how you did it. Oggy [/quote] Hi Chaps, There were times during this thread that I wished I'd never asked the question - it got quite heated at times, not a bad thing I suppose at lease 'views were exchanged'. Anyway I've persevered with the reading and after only a short time I'm getting somewhere. I can recognise all the notes presented on the Bass Clef and have an appreciation of the key signatures for letting me know what’s sharp or flat - this helped with learning the Clef: [url="http://www.studybass.com/tools/bass-clef-notes/"]Bass Clef Tutor[/url]. The 'common note positions' on the fret board were / are not that hard to learn, I pretty well knew what was where anyway, so I'm making progress. At least I can look at a piece of Bass music now and work out the bass line from that instead of resorting to my ears or TAB. Still a long way to go if I want to sight read but I feel I'm getting the hang of it. The hardest thing I'm finding is to 'stick with what's written' and not to wonder off into any familiar bass riffs. I'm finding that about an hour at a time is as much as I can manage at the moment, once or twice a day - must be an age thing - I'm sure I'll up this as I get better at it. One of the tips I picked up from a web site was to 'visualize' stuff i.e. instead of day dreaming about appearing at Wembley (Tube Station that is), I visualize the note positions on the clef and corresponding positions on the fret board - sort of reading and playing without the music or the bass - hey, don't knock it until you try it - works for me. I'm a lot happier now I'm familiar with the basics - It can only get easier, I hope. Oggy PS. I'll let you know down the road how I'm doing.

[quote name='AlanP2008' post='792991' date='Apr 1 2010, 09:41 AM']I certainly wouldn't put anything there if I could possibly avoid it. The ideal bridge (IMHO) is light in mass, but extremely rigid (and rigid probably being the more important), so that vibrations from the string get passed into the body without let or hinderance. Putting felt between bridge and body would pretty certainly damp out a lot of what you really want to keep (and what you bought that bridge for...)[/quote] Hi Alan, Yes, I think you're right - I'll just have to bite the bullet and go for it. I keep telling myself that I'll never sell this bass so won't have to worry about decreasing the value by installing the new bridge; problem is - I keep seeing all the lovely examples of other basses for sale on this site. If I could find something that would act as a protective gasket without effecting the vibration transmission I'd still be tempted. Thanks Alan. Oggy

[quote name='daz' post='792304' date='Mar 31 2010, 07:07 PM']Just to make sure. Does [b]Building Walking Basslines by Ed Friedland[/b] have music in [u]bass clef [/u]and not [u]treble clef [/u]? (I understand there are no bass [i]tabs[/i] which im fine with)[/quote] Hi daz, It's all about the 'bass clef', gets the grey matter going :wacko:. If you have patience and know where the notes are on the fret board (more or less, I've got better at it doing this) you'll make quite rapid progress. I'm actually enjoying it, it's available from Amazon - [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Building-Walking-Bass-Lines-Friedland/dp/0793542049/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1270106035&sr=1-1-fkmr0"]Amazon Link[/url]. I've had a few goes at using TAB based books, I found it usefull for getting bits and pieces but I can't see anyone sticking a few sheets on a music stand and playing / reading it cold - perhaps I'm wrong on that though. Have a good one. Oggy

[quote name='yorick' post='792098' date='Mar 31 2010, 04:19 PM']Might do....... [/quote] OK, might have known - How much? Oggy

[quote name='yorick' post='792086' date='Mar 31 2010, 04:11 PM']I think i may have something suitable. I'll have a dig around tonight.[/quote] Hi yorick, Share? Oggy

[quote name='El Bajo' post='792035' date='Mar 31 2010, 03:23 PM']Can you stomach jazz? [color="#800080"]Building Walking Basslines by Ed Friedland[/color] is pretty good. It basically teaches students how to construct bebop style walking bass lines using chord and scale tones. All the lines in the book are accompanied by a full band and could be used in any elevator music style background. The point is it teaches how to analyse bass lines and construct bass lines in a more chordal way (as opposed to just learning scales like many theory books teach). You may not feel as though your sitting down and learning endless chord and scale constructions, but at the end you'll have learn't it all through playing the songs with out noticing if that makes sense. Its a series of books too which get harder. The only gripe is you have to sit down and listen to lines by ear and transpose them as standard notation, which is great for learning, but it needs a good hour of uninterrupted practice and most of it will be spent NOT playing. I've only managed half the book because I have a new born, but i'll get back into to it soon. I go through phases of learning and theory isn't one of them at the moment.[/quote] Hi El Bajo, I bought the book you mention [color="#800080"]Building Walking Basslines by Ed Friedland[/color] some 18 months ago; took one look inside and filed it under 'one day Thomas'; that day arrived last Monday and I'm enjoying the experience. If, like myself, other 'ear playing' Basschaters out there have decided that reading is the way forward for them I'd recommend they have a look at this book. I'm also keenly awaiting the reading course / instructions that our very own Major Minor has in the pipeline, he's taken a lot of interest in the views of readers and non-readers on this site, I'm sure the insight gained will reflect in his publication. Oggy

[quote name='neepheid' post='777359' date='Mar 17 2010, 02:33 PM']There are two types of bolt (different threads) - compare them with the ones you take off to make sure you use the right one. If there's any evidence of the threaded inserts in the body lifting, it might be an idea to epoxy them into the body. If you're doing that, leave the area where the bridge earth wire makes contact with the threaded insert free of epoxy. I've heard of 2 instances of missing allen keys. The saddle adjustment one is some small daft imperial size which I forget. It would be easier if they just remembered to supply BOTH keys.[/quote] Hi neepheid, The new bridge has arrived, nice chunky piece of kit. It came with the small key but the large one is nowhere to be seen – not a problem I have a key that will fit. I was thinking about one of the comments made regarding having the metal bridge in direct contact with the surface of the Bass. Do you think it would have a big effect on the overall tone / sustain if I were to sandwich a thin piece of felt between the underside of the bridge and the surface of the Bass? (Like a gasket) The two mounting bolts are pretty hefty affairs and I think would act as a good conductor of sound / vibration into the Bass without dampening the string vibration too much. I’m just thinking about protecting the Bass surface under the bridge. What are your thoughts? Oggy

[quote name='Major-Minor' post='788363' date='Mar 28 2010, 10:41 AM'][i]Music is a language - perhaps the one true global language. Learning to read music proficiently takes time and effort but that effort will widen your musical world exponentially.[/i] By the way, [u]I'm planning some Beginner Music Reading sessions for my Bass Camp series. Coming soon to basschat !![/u] The Major[/quote] Hi Major, I'd really appreciate a 'heads-up' when you get the Beginner Music Reading sessions running. I've ordered a couple of basic books from Amazon to get me started, looks like this week is the week to start the 'global language course'. I'm glad this thread has drawn in both readers and non-readers, the exchange of ideas and views is enlightening. I do know that I'll probably never stop doing the 'ear thing' even if I do manage to learn to read, I find that if I pick up any musical instrument I'll suck, blow, pluck and prod it until I get some sort of tune out of it - it's just what I do. Oggy

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='788043' date='Mar 27 2010, 05:34 PM']That happens because that person never learned to play by ear, not because they learned to read. The two are not mutually exclusive- learning to read is not going to make you a worse "ear" player.[/quote] Hi velvetkevorkian, Thanks for that, I didn't think for one moment that learning to read would make me worse, I can only see it making me a more able / musically aware 'by ear' player. I think that learning to read will have a positive effect on the 'by ear' ability and make it easier and a more fun thing to do. I did a couple of hours practice this afternoon, using the 'by ear' method, on some Tamla Motown numbers - nothing to do with the Blues, Blue/Rock stuff I'm currently playing. I worked it out 'eventually' but the thought just kept going through my mind that being able to read a chart would make it all soooooo much easier. The timing and rhythms come naturally, it's the working out 'which notes to hit' that takes the time. Years singing in bands before I took up the bass has given me timing, a sense of rhythm I honestly think you either have or haven't got. I hear stories of professional musicians working to 'click tracks' what's that about? Oggy

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='744569' date='Feb 14 2010, 09:42 AM']Hi folks I posted this one up to clear up a discussion on another thread and I didn't want to hijack another topic so..... It did leave me very curious about something though. I'd appreciate the forum's views on this one please. Q. do you think one finger per fret is valid advice ? Up 'till now, I saw it as digit training and a method of increasing the span of the left hand to cope with the lower end fret spacing. I havn't researched it personally, but relied instead on the advice of the 'experts'. what do you think folks ? etc. Edited out the remainder..........read the full text at the first topic entry...........[/quote] Hi Basschaters, As a relatively new, self tough, electric bass player I've never heard of the '1fpf' rule / advice. I've read through the thread and found it fascinating - thanks to you all. I've only been playing for 4 years, no formal training or tutor advice, just me, the bass and a CD player or Tascam-BT. I'v occasionally referred to on-line TAB but not for 'which left hand finger on which fret' positions, only for the fret position. My first bass was a Fender Precision (1987), wide neck, 34 inch scale length and action you could drive a buss under. I eventually sussed out that perhaps the action was a little high and had it set up; what a difference that made. Without knowing the 1fpf thing I applied it anyway, sort of made sense. My next bass was a Fender Jazz, slim neck, 34 inch scale length and great action from the start. I've had several basses since and can say that they all gave me problems when playing down the neck and applying the 1fpf rule / advice thing, Oh the cramps...... I did during the above period think about buying a, dare I say it, a Short Scale Bass...Aggggggg, but was always put off by other players telling me that they were for kids or girls with small hands. 'I have small hands', yes I admit it. I've put up with the sore wrists and cramps when playing repetitive riff's down the neck and stretching - but no more! I've bought a Short Scale and cramps and sore wrists have gone away, I can stretch enough to apply the 1fpf thing and play riff's down the neck all day long. My advice would be to anyone, after a lot of pain for the gain, is - if the finger stretching 'or whatever the technical term is' is giving you cramps, a sore wrist or any hand discomfort just try a Medium 32 inch scale or a Short +/-30 inch scale - Just don't buy a PINK one. I'm just a tad disappointed that the choice of Medium and Short scale basses is so limited. What about a Short or Medium Fender Jazz (MIJ Fender do a Medium but they can't sell it outside Japan). I've settled on a Gibson SG Short and I'm looking for a decent Fender Mustang (the choice is very limited), as much as I'd love to be sporting a Jazz or a Precision I just can't do the pain thing any longer. Oggy

[quote name='PedalB' post='787933' date='Mar 27 2010, 03:36 PM']Hi Oggy, I can see this thread running on and on , here are my thoughts for what there worth- Firstly I have no experience of internet courses ,so can't really comment on there worth ,save to say you should be able to get your reading started with a basic level tutor book ,which I expect will be a good deal less expensive. I have no wish to offend anyone here ,and what I'm about to say relates only to my own experience of about 40 years as a reading bass player. Most of the non readers I have played with are fine with the basic content ,of basic rock/blues songs ,where the trouble comes is in the intros , endings and other places the song may deviate from the standard , it often takes far too long to get that kind of detail correct . Also with reading the notes comes the ability to count and put those shot notes in exactly the right place ,not just somewhere near the right place .There are many artists (succesful ones ) who still can't count and have to play to click tracks. In my own band the non readers can get quite twitchy about introducing new numbers until they had sufficient time learn thier approximation of the chart , we then reherse the number until they can play it reasonably,and only then do we set about putting our own stamp on it. In addition to bass guitar I also play Double Bass and Bass Trombone , for a number of years I was Bass Trombone in a large swing band , we mainly played original copy of the big band classics ,this is some of the most difficult music to read I have come across ,and takes musicians of a high calibre to make a reasonable job of it . In big band numbers improvised solos are called for ,(even occaisionally from a Bass Trombone) - however the chart will give the musician a chord sequence (usually complex chords) around wich the improvisation must be based,otherwise the soloist and accompanyment end up at loggerheads. This often occurs in amateur rock bands ,were some would be Jimmy Hendrix goes off like an unguided missile and the band is left holding the baby ,not even sure theyre playing the same number anymore. An earlier commenter said very few players that he had come across could read , clearly He'd not come across any of the session men who produce a good deal of what we actually listen to these days. Lastly learning to read will bring about a better understanding of musical theory ,chord structures and progressions , it will make your rehersal time far more productive ,and hopefully more pleasurable. Cheers [/quote] Hi PedalB, "[i]I have no wish to offend anyone here ,and what I'm about to say relates only to my own experience of about 40 years as a reading bass player[/i]" You certainly aren't offending me in any way, I'm just glad that you're willing to offer advice and support. I'm aware of my limitations and trying to do something about it, so no offense taken here. I get what you say when you talk about intros, endings and places where the number deviates from a set pattern. I think that when several people hear a passage they all hear it slightly differently; hence when interpreting it back as a group several slightly different interpretations battle it out - 'been there done that' and no doubt will visit it again on Monday at our next rehearsal. In our little 3 piece Blues band situation we can quickly resolve this and end up playing what we should, works fine until the number hasn't been played together for several weeks - what we hear in our heads and play are 'sometimes' not exactly what we've played when we 'worked it out'. It's not a major problem in a 3 piece Blues band where, for want of a better phrase, cock-up's can be quickly covered; my guess is that in a large group / band situation it could be a disaster. So, back on thread: I'm grateful for the input I've had from all you Basschaters, If I want to improve my playing and play with confidence in 'unfamiliar' genres - I'm just going to have to learn to read.............................................[b]I'm frightened[/b] .......................... Thanks to all. Oggy

[quote name='PedalB' post='787462' date='Mar 26 2010, 09:30 PM']This is an interesting one ,and one I find quite topical at present. I play in a six piece covers band -the horn player the keyboard and I are all good readers ,the drummer , guitarist and singer do not read . As readers We we can just open the chart and play a new number,whereas it can take the others quite a while to pick up new numbers by whatever means they use , (usually sheer repetition ) . It can be quite frustrating for readers playing with non readers often it will be 2-3 weeks before the non readers are sufficiently up to speed so We can meaningfully reherse a piece. If your serious about learning to read then go for it big time , start with simple excersizes from a basic grade tutor- even open strings just to get your reading started ,as you progress you may need a little help learning to read more complex rythms- particularly if your heading towards jazz or swing , any competent musician should be able to give a hand (doesn't have to be a bass player). You should find that learning to read will actually improve your playing as your approach to your playing becomes more structured,and you can pick up new numbers much more quickly. Good luck [/quote] Hi PedalB, The situation I'm in with the current band is a little different, we're a 3 piece Blues, Blues/Rock band (mostly variations on the good old 12 bar 3 chord format). The lead guitarist has been playing since God was a lad as has the drummer. The lead guitarist isn't a reader but given a few minutes will work out the chord progression and 'his own' interpretation of the lead breaks, just the way we like it, we don't copy we like our own stamp on what we play. The drummer can read and teaches a bit, he's played in all sorts of bands over many years, no need for a 'chart' for the Blues, Blue/Rock stuff we play - again he'll apply his own take and variations to get the desired result very quickly. I've only been playing bass for some 4 years having picked up an unwanted bass given to my son as a Christmas present "I'm not playing that, it hurts my fingers". I sang and played Blues Harp in bands since I was 14, again never having had any formal instruction. I found when I first picked up a bass that I could play a boogie riff and sing along with no effort, not much has changed since then. I'm charged with bass and vocal duties for the band so have to learn both the lyrics and the bass part, repetition and the Tascam BT is how I do this, I'll find the key that I can sing comfortably in then 'using my ears' work out the bass line and play it over and over until I don't have to think about it. I've been asked a few times to dep for other bands or join/play in bigger bands; I've always declined the offers due to a lack of confidence in my ability to 'instantly' busk a part or ask for a 'chart' and just play it, I hate not being good at what I'm doing and the thought of wasting other peoples time while they wait for me fills me with dread, you said yourself "[i]It can be quite frustrating for readers playing with non readers[/i]" I'd love to be able to accept dep. offers and play in other genres (soul / swing, even a little jazz or big band), by being able to read is the only way I can see that would allow me to do this. I've been searching the net for courses and am investigating having some lessons locally. I found an American site [url="http://www.bassguitarsecrets.com"]Alex Bass Site[/url], I'm tempted to order the course, I'll have to contact them and ask about the 'reading' content before I part with any cash. I'd be grateful for your, or any other Basschatters, opinion on what they think of the offer - bearing in mind that what I'm really interested in being able to do is sight read not just play parrot fashion. Thanks for your input. Oggy

[b]Thanks Wil, Bilbo, Jakesbass and Doddy,[/b] I think I’m getting the message that it’s all down to discipline and applying myself. The idea of using unfamiliar music sounds good plus I like the idea of having some lessons. I’ll have a look at the ‘tutors’ section and see if I can find someone who will put up with me and get me focused. Does anyone have a recommendation for a CD / book combination that really helps with the notation and theory side of things? Thank you all, much appreciated. Oggy

[center][u][b]Is it a gift or a curse?[/b][/u][/center] Being able to ‘play by ear’ and ‘repetitive practice’ is one thing but it doesn’t come close to being able to pick up a sheet of music and read / play it. I’ve never had any formal, or informal for that matter, musical training. I’ve always loved music and singing and found that I have an ‘ear’ and am able, with a bit of practice, to interpret what I hear onto a bass guitar – great, as far as it goes. I’d love to be able to pick up a music sheet and play what I read. What’s the best way of achieving this dream when the curse of ‘an ear for music’ is upon me? I’d really like to be able to read but every time I sit down and try using one of the many CD / book combinations available, I get bored after five mins and go off on a totally unrelated bass line that’s in my head. Have any other Basschatters battled with the above? If you have managed to overcome the ‘ear thing’ please let me know how you did it. Oggy

[quote name='Oggy' post='777639' date='Mar 17 2010, 04:53 PM']------------------------------------------------- The plan is:- 1. Make sure I'm happy with the height of the pickups. 2. Screw all 4 of the poles IN until flush with surface of the pickup. 3. Set Volume and tone controls to where I usually have them. 4. Start with screw under E string and unscrew OUT until volume is as I would expect it be on the Amp and Bass settings. 5. Then work down the A, then the D and finally the G pole screws; adjusting each to match the volume on the E. Depending on how far the pole screws protrude; I may have to repeat 4 and 5 a few times if the pole screws end up in extreme positions. What do you think? Is this the way forward? ----------------------------------------------------[/quote] ---------------------------------------------------- Hi fellow Basschatters, Just to report back for those that are interested: I 'sort of' followed my plan and now have the string volumes even. I set the amp volume at a reasonable level and had the Bass pickup volume / tone settings in the regular position for the neck pickup, made the adjustments to each pole screw, comparing string volumes with each other and tweeking until each string was at +/- the same volume. Turned the neck pickup off, turned the bridge pickup on and repeated the process for that pickup. I now have all string volumes even on both the neck and bridge pickups - sounds great I'm well happy. I've also learned something - Doing your own 'general' bass maintainance can save you a few bob and it's interesting, just take your time and ask questions if your not sure. Oggy -------------------------------------------------------

[quote name='evilLordJuju' post='773648' date='Mar 13 2010, 03:11 PM']I always take a small flat blade screwdriver with me... what can sound perfectly balanced one day at home can sound out the next day at reherasal, or at a gig[/quote] ------------------------------------------------- Hi evilLordJuju and fellow Basschatters, I played at reasonable volume last nigh and guess what ? Yup the E has less volume than the A & D and the G is very 'bright'. The plan is:- 1. Make sure I'm happy with the height of the pickups. 2. Screw all 4 of the poles IN until flush with surface of the pickup. 3. Set Volume and tone controls to where I usually have them. 4. Start with screw under E string and unscrew OUT until volume is as I would expect it be on the Amp and Bass settings. 5. Then work down the A, then the D and finally the G pole screws; adjusting each to match the volume on the E. Depending on how far the pole screws protrude; I may have to repeat 4 and 5 a few times if the pole screws end up in extreme positions. What do you think? Is this the way forward? All comments and advice welcome. Oggy:) ----------------------------------------------------

[quote name='evilLordJuju' post='772978' date='Mar 12 2010, 05:23 PM']The Hipshots are great - i'm yet to hear anything bad about them - there is a 2 point and 3 point version with slightly different spacing. Make sure you get the 3 point version.[/quote] --------------------------- Hi evilLordJuju and all contributors to this topic, Having recently bought a Gibson SG Bass I went about changing the strings, altering the action and adjusting the intonation, it's doable but sure isn’t easy with the Gibson 3 point bridge :wacko: . Having read this post and followed the treads I've placed an order for a Hipshot 3 point replacement bridge from the U.S of A. Fingers crossed I should get my hands on it mid next week. I was planning on doing the replacement myself; let you know how it goes . Any tips on do's and don’ts fitting the new bridge would be gratefully received . Oggy --------------------------