endorka

My background music jazz band were playing at a wedding recently, during the time between the service and reception. As the wedding party entered the room I counted in our usual opener, the theme from the Odd Couple. It took a couple of bars before I realised that this was perhaps not the best choice of material. Too late! Fortunately nobody seemed to notice. I love background music gigs! The Muppet Show theme is also on our repertoire. As is "Cantina Band". Bilbo, I know I'm not going up in your estimation by stating these facts, so I'll propably just stop right now :-) Jennifer

According to the "Setup And Repair of the Double Bass for Optimum Sound: A Manual for Players, Makers, And Repairers" by Chuck Traeger, the quality of sound of a double bass is adversely affected by the move to 5 strings. If I remember correctly, one factor in this is something to do with the increased tension and additional neck width required for the extra string making the instrument less free to vibrate, and consequently the sound is not as good. From this, he always recommends the use of an E string fingerboard extension rather than a 5 string bass. This, with the additional complication that a 5 string double bass is harder to bow, may account for the fact that double basses with low C extensions are more common than 5 string ones. Whether it is possible to generalise this to the bass guitar I have no idea, but my intuition tells me that the effect of adding an extra string would not have anything like the same negative effect as it does on a double bass. Sure, maybe the business about the neck vibrations would still apply, but since the instrument is to be amplified, it is probably not such a huge factor as it is with double bass. The only valid way to make a comparison of this type is to get two instruments of the same type, with electronics as similar as possible (given that pickups will have to be a bit wider etc.), and compare them. It would appear that Bassman2790 has done this with his BB414 and BB415, and claims that the common strings sound the same. I'd be inclinded to believe him. Jennifer

In my experience, acoustic bass guitars are pretty much a waste of time for serious use. As someone else mentioned, they don't produce enough volume to compete with even the naffest of acoustic guitars, and once you amplify them they sound pretty much like an amplified electric bass and are prone to feedback, so you might as well have used an electric bass in the first place. The body on an acoustic bass guitar is just not big enough to get a good sound... there is no way it will be reproducing the fundamental frequencies of the low notes. What you really need is a double bass! The only thing they are useful for are those "unplugged" sets where everyone is actually amplified anyway, and it is really about having something that looks acoustic as opposed to sounding acoustic. In saying that, I do own an acoustic bass guitar and I have used it for doing folky stuff at parties etc., but it is very hard work even just to be heard, and the effect is probably not what you are used to as an amplified electric bassist. Your fingers end up in shreds pretty quickly :-) Jennifer

It all sounds reasonable-ish, but years of experience of big band and jazz gigs have led me to the conclusion that for these types of ensembles, simplest is usually best. For big bands, unless you are in a (very) large hall or need to be extremely loud, I find that you only really need mics for the soloists and vocalists. The horn sections absolutely do not need sound reinforcement - a good horn section will blow off the doors at the back of the hall unamplified. For bass, I've done many big band gigs in decent sized venues, some with bass guitar, some double bass, with a 220W Eden 1x10 combo, and it usually is barely cranked at all. Keys & guitar players usually have similar sized amplification - as long as the rhythm section have enough juice to keep up with the drums, all is well. You shouldn't need to put the rhythm section through the PA at all, unless the hall is huge. As for having a monitor for the drums... don't do it, it only encourages them. But in all seriousness, that shouldn't really be needed if you arrange the band well on stage so people can hear each other. Unless of course, the drummer is deaf, which may well be the case if they've been playing in big bands for a certain period of time. I think the best approach to take is to get the band sounding as good as they can without PA assistance, then work out what needs addressed after you've taken this as far as you can. Remember that in the early era of the likes of Duke Ellington, they packed out large dance halls with minimal or non-existant PA, and no amplification for the double bass at all. Something to think about. Jennifer

[quote name='solo4652' post='366908' date='Dec 31 2008, 10:38 AM']I'm pretty much a beginner, and I'm struggling with my timing. Playing along to Youtube videos at home, I'm not too bad. However, when I play with a drummer and guitarist, it often falls apart. This mainly because I'm concentrating on keeping the beat, but then find it really hard to count the bars to start, stop, just play roots, play the bridge, etc at the right points. We don't have a singer yet, and I'm hoping that this will be the missing link. That said, I'm fully aware that it's me and the drummmer who should be the core of the song.[/quote] A singer will help greatly with this, as it will free you from the counting of bars, as you say, at least for the most part. However, it is best if you know the material sufficiently well that you are not dependent on literally counting bars to determine your place in the tune. Most songs "breathe" in a certain way, with fairly simple patterns of multiple bars, e.g. 12 bar blues, many jazz tunes in 32 bar AABA form. If you can feel bars in multiples of two, then four, then eight, it becomes a lot easier. I say "feel" rather than count because that is what familiarity gives you - you know intuitively when e.g the end of an 8 bar phrase is coming along, rather than having to explicitly count this. Kindof like walking, you usually know roughly how far you've walked without actually counting steps. A great way to learn this is to sing along with the tune yourself, either literally or in your head. If you do this often enough you'll find out that even singers sometimes get the form of a tune wrong. Your familiarity with the material will be an effective way to prevent train wrecks in this scenario :-) Jennifer

[quote name='cytania' post='366615' date='Dec 30 2008, 09:04 PM']5) Never ride the beat like a passenger. This is a surefire way to remain off the one. Create the beat, push forward by adding a controlled bit of extra punch to notes and a dash more grit to the groove.[/quote] Absolutely spot on. Many musicians, including bass players, do exactly this. The effect is that they are merely "playing along", rather than contributing something to the music; this can lead to the music being boring. It is imperative that energy of some kind is imparted. The pot must be constantly stirred! Jennifer

On occassion I've done the solo bass thing at gigs, but only an odd song here or there, not a full set. I used to fingertap some computer game music, way before that guy started doing the Super Mario thing! One of the themes was from "Robocod". It was usually well recieved, although I'm not sure if it would have worked for 2 x 45 minute sets :-) More recently I've played the head of "Big Noise From Winnetka", done some improv on it, then played a medley of famous tunes/movie themes/basslines, then back to the Big Noise. This is best done as a bass + drums duet, and was inspired by seeing Vic Pitt do similar at a Chris Barber gig. It works surprisingly well, people have even been dancing along to it. Jennifer

Is it possible to fret notes with your fingertips? Are they wide enough? Or is this a daft question? Jennifer

[quote name='steve-soar' post='360074' date='Dec 21 2008, 09:33 AM']I love some of Jacos stuff but some of it, like the instructional video is awful. I would not have liked to have been stuck in a lift with him, as I don't get on with braggers and show offs.[/quote] Interesting how we have different perceptions on this, as I got a lot out of his instructional video, as much philosophical as technical. Certainly, it is clear he was unwell to some extent during the recording of this video, but he struck me as genuine and quite charming, in a geeky kind of way. I didn't get the impression of him being a bragger or show off, just someone totally into what he was doing. Whatever one's opinion of the music he made, there are certain observations that can be objectively made; - he had a superb sense of time. - he had a superb sense of melody and harmony. - he wrote some pretty nifty tunes. - I'm told by people who saw him live that he sounded like nobody else at that time. - he changed the way people approach the bass guitar. .... and he could groove on simple lines when the tune calls for it. It would have been a privilege to have met this guy and hear his thoughts, in a lift or otherwise. I bet he could have played a mean "Girl From Ipanema"... Jennifer

I was also most impressed by the "Junkie's Riff". Jennifer

[quote name='R,5,R,5...' post='356667' date='Dec 17 2008, 09:28 AM']I've been playing the Beguine "riff or pattern" and found that there is a certain gaiety about this Latin American beat. It has definitely made me feel gay, and I intend to go on feeling gay for the foreseeable future.[/quote] I'm not convinced about that at all - to my mind, the brief modulation to E major in bar 4 of the Beguine has a somewhat menacing feel to it. I'm impressed. Jennifer

[quote name='dangerboy' post='333038' date='Nov 20 2008, 12:17 PM']In the stuff I'm interested in, no instrument ever solos. And I like it that way. Solo on any insturment = time to go to the bar[/quote] You'd go to the bar during "[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWUt2D0FkdU"]The Elephant[/url]"? For shame! You must have a heart of stone :-) Jennifer

[quote name='jakesbass' post='346910' date='Dec 6 2008, 12:08 AM']violin sh*t[/quote] I think there are some for the double bass in Nielsen's 4th symphony, "The Inextinguishable". Not that I was able to play them... But they are just doubling the violins. As you said, violin sh*t :-) Jennifer

No idea where you can get them, but in the past I've done gigs where we used the Jamie Aebersold christmas leadsheets. All your usual Christmas "standards", arranged and reharmonised for jazz combo. Some of them are actually quite good. It is vaguely disturbing. Jennifer

[quote name='OutToPlayJazz' post='339617' date='Nov 28 2008, 02:16 PM']...But for the time being I have to grin and bear classic rock & cheesy 80's pop. Ah well [/quote] Do you ever need a dep? Jennifer

[quote name='arabassist' post='335825' date='Nov 24 2008, 09:13 PM']What I'm trying to figure out is how to make a boring bass line more fun. For example, if we take something simple like 'With or Without You' by U2 which is just D--A--B--G.[/quote] Ok, I'll play devils advocate - you don't! That particular arrangement of that particular tune has sold millions and is loved by millions throughout the known universe. You may think the bassline is boring, but presumably they disagree. Adam Clayton must be doing something right here - and if you can figure out what that is, you'll learn something, and maybe earn something. If you want to play basslines that are more fun, find some and learn them in addition to 'With or Without You'. After a while you'll hear how to spice up simpler lines without being intrusive and ruining the original feel of the tune. Unless, of course, that is your intention! Jennifer

<The Atomic Mr Basie.> [quote name='jakesbass' post='329624' date='Nov 15 2008, 12:31 PM']A truly magnificent album!![/quote] Couldn't agree more. I got that album when I started playing in big bands as a youth and it helped me have one of those "light bulb" moments when you realise how everything should work in a big band rhythm section. One song in particular has a magnificent bassline - "Duet" - I was even moved to transcribe the bassline on the head at the time. The second big band album that had that effect on me was Sinatra live at the Sands, for pretty much the same reasons. And another is pretty much anything by Duke Ellington, especially the Jimmy Blanton stuff. It swings so hard I sometimes wonder if there is any point in creating a big band nowadays, since to even come close to the musicianship, songwriting, arrangements and sheer buzz of that music seems nigh on impossible. I would love to be shown otherwise, however :-) Jennifer

[quote name='Musky' post='322524' date='Nov 5 2008, 10:55 AM']Someone once recommended one of [url="http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?storeId=10001&catalogId=1500001151&langId=-1&searchTerms=0743831&Submit=GO+%3E"]these[/url] on here (or one of the earlier incarnations). Though looking at it I'm not 100% sure the platform is completely horizontal.[/quote] 'twas I! Great trolley that, still using it... Jennifer

As you have no doubt discovered, bowing is a very tricky technique; don't expect results quickly! There are many, many factors involved in getting a good tone with the bow. Off the top of my head; - bow speed - bow pressure - bow placement (i.e. where it meets the string between the bridge and fingerboard) - bow angle (should be perpendicular to the strings) - amount of rosin on the bow hair - tension of bow hair - a relaxed bow hold - relaxed wrist, shoulder, forearm and torso. - amount of hair in contact with the string, i.e. is the bow flat against the string or at an angle? Failure to get any one of these incorrect can result in poor tone. [quote name='cris the man' post='317986' date='Oct 29 2008, 10:10 PM']my wrist movement is ok (when bowing left push wrist forward , when bowing right wrist backward)(sorry about the poor vocabulary!) but i seem to get alot of harmonics?[/quote] When bowing it helps to imagine what you are trying to achieve, rather than focus on the method of acheiving something you are not too sure of. That way you'll know when your moving in the right direction. For example, what is the purpose of this apparent wrist movement? As far as I can ascertain, it is to help get a silent string string moving effectively when you start the bow stroke by exerting a little bit more weight than is used on the rest of the stroke, or a similar thing when changing bow direction. The point is that you need to "kick" the string a bit to get it going; once it gets going, less energy is needed to keep it going. Rabbath advises that one should not move the wrist; rather, the forearm is moved, and the wrist moves *as a consequence* of the movement of the forearm. The orientation of the fingers holding the bow should also change correspondingly, also as a consequence of the forearm movement. There are actually other schools of thought on this type of movement, but probably best to stick with the closest one to what you're doing at the moment. When starting bowing, practice long notes on the open strings. The D string is probably a good place to start. Is it French or German bow you use? Do you have a teacher? As I mentioned earlier, bowing is a real skill that takes time and guidance to develop. Reading stuff on the internet is probably not going to get you too far. [quote]also, how can i really bring out the higher notes on the higher pivot points? (that may be a setup issue)[/quote] Not sure what you mean by this! Jennifer

[quote]I'm basically gonna find a few bass tunes I like, (Lovecats, Different Corner-George Michael, Adele- Best for Last,check it out it's good!!) Get the sheet music[/quote] I did a wee transcription of Lovecats recently, why not grab it and put the money you save towards a lesson? :-) <link removed> You've probably heard it before but getting lessons when learning DB is definitely a Good Thing; compared with bass guitar, there is far more potential for doing it wrong, and the path(s) of rightousness are fewer and narrower. Jennifer

Another possible approach is to made up a simple melody, lick, or riff, that sounds good over the solo section, then develop variations of it, e.g. miss some notes out, transpose it, alter the phrasing, invert the rhythm, make it ascending rather than descending, for example. Then try to put all these variations together into something that moves in a musical direction. In my experience, bass solos don't have to be very long; in fact, like speeches, sometimes it is best if you keep them concise and to the point. Also, don't be too worried about using chromatic notes - they can be very effective in this style of music. Jennifer

I was there, it was great, what can I say? :-) Jennifer

This matter is not infrequent for double bass notation, as well as extended range basses. When one goes into "thumb position" on the double bass, for example, it is quite commonly notated in the treble clef. From my own experience, I'd say the bass clef/treble clef combination is most frequent and most likely to generate good results. You occassionally come across music for double bass written in the tenor clef, but these parts seem almost universally despised. Jennifer

Like Doddy, It's not unusual for me to do gigs on totally unamplified double bass - no amplifier, no front of house. Works well enough in certain situations, although I don't know how the bass player coped playing like this in 18-piece swing bands in the old days. Probably the most mismatched gig I've ever done was in one of the aforementioned 18-piece swing bands with a bass guitar into a 30W Laney Linebacker. It wasn't really happening. Jennifer

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='289985' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:19 PM']Try the Simandl book or Rufus Reid's 'The Evolving Bassist' - each represents a systematic approach to playing (they both work just as well for double bass and electric - its the notes that matter, not the power supply)[/quote] Seconded, I have both of these and they are good. They make a lot more sense now I've completed the Tune A Day books :-) I'd say a tutor is probably a requirement if you're to get the best from those books. Jennifer