endorka

Scott Walker = genius. I'm going to listen to Tilt right now. Do I hear... 21? Jennifer

I assume your son is using one of the orchestra's double basses for concerts? I own an NS Design Wav and I've tried the Stagg EUB. The Stagg is very good value if you play predominantly pizzicato, but the strings seemed too close together and the arch around the bridge area is not pronounced enough for serious arco. The configuration of the Wav is similar to that of a real DB, so bowing is possible, and the amplified sound is very realistic - more so than the pizzicato sound. Indeed, I am currently using this instrument on a series of concerts where I am interpreting both arco and pizz. double bass and cello parts along with a drummer and other amplified instruments, and it works well, better in my opinion than trying to amplify the real double bass to the volumes required... which is why I am using it. In saying that, there are some compromises. The main one I find is that the EUB does not give the stability of a real one; I play seated, and the real DB is just not going to move at all. The EUB wobbles a bit, which makes playing it consistently a bit more difficult, mostly in terms of intonation, and I find myself gazing at the neck to check my intonation too often. I'm not saying it can't be done, it is just a bit more difficult. The Wav also does not have a neck heel, so playing around D on the G string is a different experience to the real DB. At the moment I'm trying to figure out a way to get a neck heel fitted to my Wav. In truth, I'd be inclined to say that the EUB I have is very useful for situations such as that described above, i.e. double bass required at medium to high volumes or for certain travelling situations, but as a practice instrument I think he'd be best with the real thing - because of matters like the neck heel issue, learning how to sit or stand with the instrument, amongst others, it is easier to go from real DB to EUB than vice-versa. However, if you really have no choice, then getting a decent EUB is far better than nothing to practice on at all. Jennifer

[quote name='pete.young' post='454309' date='Apr 4 2009, 07:54 PM']We've got some of these. I wouldn't buy them again. It's all very well when they're on the stands, but lifting the buggers on and off is a real PITA.[/quote] There is an easy way to do this - put speakers & stands together horizontally on the floor, then from the speaker end lift them together until they are vertical. Reverse to dissasemble. Jennifer

The Korg MA30 is the most appropriate metronome in my opinion; does the job exactly, has an earphone out, and even without this is loud enough to play along with a double bass, is small and cheap as chips; [url="http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=129"]http://www.korg.com/Product.aspx?pd=129[/url] Jennifer

[quote name='ritch12' post='443034' date='Mar 23 2009, 08:19 PM']Thumb resting on pickup when playing E string Thumb resting on E string when playing A string Thumb resting on A string when playing D string Thumb resting on D string when playing G string[/quote] More efficient? Try this; - Thumb resting on pickup when playing E string - Thumb resting on pickup when playing A string (plucking finger following through and touching the E string will mute it in this case) - Thumb resting on E when playing D string (see above for muting A string) - Thumb resting between E & A string, touching both, when playing G string (see above for muting D string) This takes care of muting all the strings below the one currently being plucked. To deal with those above the one currently being plucked, use the 1st finger on the left hand, which is always kept flat against the fingerboard. Using both techniques will ensure that only the string you want to play is able to ring out. Jennifer

I see where you are coming from, although it sounds like motivation may play some part in this, in that when you are in your comfort zone you don't throw yourself into it as much as you do when doing something new, which sounds entirely reasonable, and I'd say I experience this as well. I think what I am trying to get across is that once the novelty of doing something new has worn off, it's back to the graft and repetition, and this time it may still be outside your comfort zone. When doing something new, initial progress can seem very rapid in relative terms - and it is - but ultimately, there will still be challanges to face that are not necessarily achievable in a short time scale, no matter how hard you practice. Jennifer

[quote name='funkle' post='441441' date='Mar 21 2009, 11:55 PM'][*]Improvement occurs in baby steps. If you're happy taking baby steps daily as opposed to expecting big jumps suddenly and periodicially, half the battle has been won. This is helpful in remaining patient![/quote] I think this is one of the most important things I have learned from my music education. Certainly many people can make apparently large, quick steps when they stay within or close to their comfort zone, but go outside of that - and if you are serious, you will have to, sooner or later - and progress becomes far more exacting, slower and much harder won. And all the more satisfying because of it. When I was younger I had the notion that if I couldn't master something quickly then I was obviously no good at it. Which in retrospect is obviously deranged! Progress in musical development can easily be measured in months, years or even decades... Jennifer

[quote name='Mottlefeeder' post='434961' date='Mar 14 2009, 11:39 PM']You have a choice of shorter EUBs on a long stick, e.g the WAV etc, or double bass length instruments on a shorter stick, e.g. the Stagg, Aria, Yamaha etc.[/quote] Just to clarify: the WAV is indeed shorter than the Stagg, but the scale length of the strings are approximately the same on both, i.e. the equivalent of a 3/4 size double bass, around 42". The Stagg is longer because the strings are for longer on the non-playing side of the bridge, so that the ends are fixed into the front of the instrument. On the WAV, the strings don't go on for much after they've gone over the bridge - they wrap round the instrument and the ends are fixed into holes in the back of the instrument, kindof like a "thru string" setup on a bass guitar, only more so :-) Jennifer

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='430582' date='Mar 10 2009, 03:09 PM']Thank you for that answer! However, I think that most of those objections are only applicable to BAD tabs that you can find all over the Internet. The tabs I use (I use tabs as well as staff notation) certainly indicate rhythm and dynamics, for a start. As far as I'm aware, articulation is indicated by little symbols above/below the note, which is surely just as easy to write on tabs as it is on notation.[/quote] I'm sure all the above is possible - I've seen a few tabs in the past with some indication of rhythm bolted on, but they have used similar syntax to the language used to describe rhythm in notation. In my opinion, if you're going to these lengths to make tab emulate notation, you might as well take it the final step and use notation - it really isn't much further. [quote]As I see it, the problem is that there are lots of dreadful tabs out there giving the good ones a bad name.[/quote] I think this is a red herring; there are good and bad tabs, just as there are good and bad transcriptions in notation. [quote]If tabs are used to their full potential, they can combine everything that is useful about notation with the added benefit of being specifically intended for our instrument. In contrast, I've never seen notation that tells me which fret to play on which string.[/quote] I would never advocate that everyone must use one system or another, if something works for your purposes then as far as I'm concerned that's great and it's the end of the story. In my opinion, a system being specific to a given instrument is a downside, for you it is not. For example, on several recents gigs I've been able to play parts from a string quartet written for a cello on my double bass - both are written in bass clef, although in terms of fingering they are very different instruments, the cello is tuned in fifths, the bass in fourths. Tab, (if it made sense at all on a fretless instrument) would not be cross compatible at all. And this is before we get into even more distant territory, such as wind instruments and piano. I once played a trombone part in a big band on a six string bass (!). I remain unconvinced about the requirement of a notation to spell out exact fingerings for every note - with experience, the musician can usually do this for themselves, and indeed fingerings may vary between musicians due to things such as instrument scale length, altered tunings, additional strings, and hand size. However, in notation, the requirement for a note to be played in a specific placed on a certain string can be indicated; one way of doing this is by writing "sul D", which means "the stated note should be played on the D string". Jennifer

[quote name='queenofthedepths' post='430523' date='Mar 10 2009, 02:21 PM']Sorry but I don't feel that answers my question? Specifically what is the advantage of staff notation over tablature?[/quote] Off the top of my head, things notation offers as standard that tab does not; - rhythm - dynamics - articulation - direct musical pitch information - it can be used by players of other instruments, not just the instrument it was written for. ...I am sure there are many others. With a part written in notation, and some prior knowledge of how the musical genre sounds, it is possible to credibly recreate the musical part without having to hear it beforehand. This is not the case with tab. Jennifer

It's easy enough to do - just get some of those thin circular files and file down the grooves one by one, a little at a time, replacing the string frequently to check the height. You could use something like a credit card or other thin thing to reference the height of the groove relative to the fingerboard. If you make the height too low the string will rattle, but filing & checking frequently should avoid this. Should this happen, you probably won't even need a new nut, let alone a new fingerboard; I imagine it would be possible to put a thin bit of wood between the nut and the neck to act as a spacer to raise the height of the nut again. In saying that, I agree with Graham that the guy in the violin shop will do a good job on this! Jennifer

[quote name='BigBeatNut' post='420551' date='Feb 27 2009, 01:08 AM']That 'neck wobble' you talk about might be true of some EUBs but I'd definitely dispute it being true of the one I've got. It's a BSX Allegro which has an endpin and a brace that positions the bass nicely for playing and completely stops any kind of neck wobble. It easily feels as stable against my body as the 3/4 upright does. ........ I'm still a bit of an upright newb (neither EUB or DB has been gigged as yet) but the BSX seems like a goodie to me. In my search for an EUB I tried and rejected basses like the NS (felt wrong to have the bass locked in place on a tripod) and others that were endpin based, but just didn't have a comfortable brace (Warwick Triumph didn't work for me).[/quote] I agree that the tripod based EUBs are a bit odd, which is how I used the NS Design in the first place. For some time though I've been using an endpin stand that seems similar to the one you showed a photo of, like this; Except I use it sitting down. I find it an improvement on the tripod, but definitely not as good as sitting down playing the double bass "cello style", like in my avatar. Then again, the photo shows you standing to play the EUB, and I would agree that the the endpin & brace provides a similar level of stability as playing an ordinary DB standing. It's just that I find I can't replicate the stability of sitting with an ordinary DB, especially for arco work. I think something like the NS Design cello endpin would do the trick, but I don't know if it works on their EUBs; Bilbo, I'm wondering how you approached the double bass with regard to stance (or seated position), height of the nut, etc, and if some improvement could be made there? Certainly, 15 minutes of playing on a double bass for someone not used to it is quite a long time. Jennifer

I have an NS Design EUB that I'm using just now - the action can be adjusted to be as low or as high as you like, but as someone else has mentioned, the lower the action, the more it sounds like a big fretless bass. In any case, it is not really the action that makes the EUB more difficult to play than a normal double bass, it is the fact that irrespective of using a tripod or "end pin" stand, the neck of the instrument tends to move and shoogle around more than that of a normal DB. As a result, I find it harder to stay in tune when shifting, meaning I often have to supervise the shift by looking at my left hand, something not so necessary on a normal DB. The other aspect to the wobbly neck is that I find I have to grip the instrument harder with my left fingers and thumb, which of course is more tiring than the normal DB. The thing that stops the normal DB wobbling is the fact that you can hold the body of the instrument "look no hands" with your legs & torso, and it is really secure. The EUB just can't do this as well. I'm not dismissing EUBs by any means, indeed I am currently using one because the advantages outweigh the disadvantages in this case, but I do think they are harder to play than a normal DB. Jennifer

Amazing singer/songwriter Horse McDonald will be performing at the following as part of the first leg of her "Coming Up For Air" tour; 25 Feb 20:00 Boardwalk Sheffield, Midlands 27 Feb 20:00 The Tunnels Aberdeen, Scotland 28 Feb 20:00 Adam Smith Theatre Kirkcaldy, Scotland More information on tickets sales etc. can be found [url="http://www.randan.org/news1.html"]here[/url] She's a fantastic singer, and you'll also get the chance to see me playing my NS Design electric upright bass. What's not to like? :-) More information on Horse McDonald can be found [url="http://www.myspace.com/horserandan"]here[/url] and [url="http://www.randan.org/"]here[/url] Hope to see you there! Jennifer

Well done to Matthew! [quote name='Starvolt' post='415327' date='Feb 20 2009, 02:16 PM']I'm just working on my grade 4 at the mo. It's the large walking bass solo bit I'm having fun with at the mo. I'm doing a jazz piece, so the rhythm is a bit awkward (for me at least).[/quote] I know the exact one you mean, one of my students is also currently working on this piece. The key to playing this piece well in my opinion is to get the sound and rhythm of jazz, and in particular, jazz bass, into your head. This is generally best achieved through prolonged listening and playing along to jazz. If you don't already have it, buy this, and absorb; [url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kind-Blue-Miles-Davis/dp/B000024F6G/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1235396562&sr=8-1"]Kind Of Blue[/url] Jennifer

[quote name='fretmeister' post='407482' date='Feb 12 2009, 12:08 PM']I have never used piezo pups before - can they drive regular FX? Does the WAV need an outboard preamp if I was just wanting to plug into a regular bass amp?[/quote] The key thing with piezo pickups is that they usually require an amplifier where the preamp section has a high input impedance to work at their best; for example, the Fishman I use on my regular double bass requires 1 megaohm. My amplifier meets these specifications, so it is ok. If your amplifier does not, you *may* need an additional preamp which does. I say *may* because I'm not convinced the issue is so black and white as all that. I've no idea what impedance the pickup on the WAV requires, but I will say that it has worked well on amp the amps I've tried it with. To answer your question about effects, I use the WAV with my Bass Pod XT Live, and it works very well indeed. [quote]I am playing more jazz and big band stuff and want to get into bow playing (never done it before), but I am caught in the dreaded "will I keep up with it?" dilemma that goes with any new purchase.[/quote] Learning to use a bow is indeed a steep learning curve, where progress is measured in months rather than days, but is very rewarding. The key is regular practice. Regardless of bow use, however, the WAV will give great results in jazz and big band even if you never use the bow. Compared to a bass guitar, it's sound is almost always far more relevant to these genres than a bass guitar. With regard to amplification for the WAV, most amps work well for pizzicato, but I'd say the best instant results I've had are from Trace Elliot and Ashdown amplifiers. I have access to an old Trace Elliot Commando and it sounds awesome right out of the box, a very realistic double bass sound, especially with the bow, which is not scratchy at all. Same with the Ashdown, although not quite as much. As a result I use the Ashdown speaker simulator in my Pod for the WAV, and it actually works! I'm using the WAV for some concerts at the moment through an Eden cxc110 combo with an additional d112xlt cabinet. It is plenty deep. As mentioned above, the Pod is used to model the sound, and the volume pedal is very useful for arco passages - generally the unmodified arco volume is too loud compared to the pizzicato volume. This setup works really well. Jennifer

I'd mostly agree with Mr. Pickguard - the CRM models have a posher looking finish, and if you need a five string this is obviously the only way to go. However, the sound from the WAV is incredible, and certainly not in need of beefing up, seriously, you will not believe the amount of bass one of these can produce on the E string - it is thunderous. I use the bow a lot, so the WAV is useful for me - the five string has closer string spacing and is not so good for bowing. The fundamental on the low E is so deep I don't find myself needing anything lower, and certainly to reproduce the fundamental of a B string on one of those instruments you would require some serious amplification. Magnetic pickups don't work with a bow (you need the piezo in arco mode) or with non-metal cored strings, quite common in the double bass world, so that's something else to watch out for depending on your needs... you could potentially end up spending money on the mag pickups and find you don't need them. My WAV is one of the old style ones with an ebony fingerboard; seemingly they had problems with some of these, so new ones apparently have a different kind of hardwood. I had problems with the supplied stand, and while NS Design supplied a replacement no trouble at all, I keep it mothballed and bought and use the CRM endpin stand instead. I'd heartily recommend the WAV, assuming it fits your needs, it is a weird and wonderful instrument. At the moment I'm using it on gigs where I have to fulfill the role of 1) bass guitarist 2) classical bowed double bass/cello and 3) synth bass. It works well for all three functions. Jennifer

1) The guy who asked you to do the gig has confidence you can do it. 2) It's four months away - get in the woodshed and have the songs nailed by May. Do what you can for Sunday - start with the easy tunes first. From now until Sunday listen to the tunes at every opportunity. Jennifer

A Glasgow gathering definitely sounds like a good idea! Jennifer

As others have mentioned, Simandl is very good and pretty much the Bible, although you definitely need some guidance to get the most from it. There are some alternatives out there; one I've come across recently is "Creative Bass Techniques" by Portnoi, which seems to be out of print. However, if you google "creativebasstechniques.pdf" you should be able to find a copy. This book is fascinating, as it takes a different approach to many, starting in the middle of the fingerboard rather than the bottom. It has many interesting facets that I've found useful - worth a look IMHO. I've mentioned before (to some derision :-) that going through the "Tune a Day" double bass books 1 & 2 is a useful exercise... but it is. Jennifer

I think two notes in a row when not doing the "2-feel turning into 4-feel" thing is ok, as Bilbo, if it is done with discretion. The only time I find it a bit odd, and I occassionally come across this with written walking bass parts, is when you have a note on beat 4 of a bar, then exactly the same note on beat 1 of the following bar. Jennifer

[quote name='wateroftyne' post='383755' date='Jan 18 2009, 09:09 AM']I've been watching this thread with interest, and I might add, through gritted teeth since Bilbo's characteristically ridiculous 'floundering in the dark' opening gambit.[/quote] Say what you like about Bilbo, but (another) one of his characteristics is that there is often an element of truth in his writings :-) Modes aren't just for use in jazz trios - for example, Dusty Springfield's recording of "Goin' Back"; [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XvWiiUgT8Nk"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XvWiiUgT8Nk[/url] Around 1:45, under the lyrics "Now there's more to do", the strings play a haunting backing figure that totally blew my mind when I heard it. Some analysis revealed that it is using the Dorian minor rather than Natural Minor (or Aeolian mode); the Aeolian mode is what one would normally expect to hear in this section of the tune, both theoretically and "by ear". Yet the use of Dorian to go briefly "outside" the harmony (there is only one note of difference between the Dorian and Aeolian modes) gives it this outstanding effect. The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think the arranger of those strings did this by chance; I suspect he knew explicitly what he was doing - IMHO that part is just too weird to stumble across by accident. I guess what I am trying to say is that if you want to make really special musical statements like the above example, you're probably going to have to put the hours in to understand the mechanics of music. To break rules properly, you have to know what they are :-) Jennifer

[quote name='Delberthot' post='381977' date='Jan 16 2009, 02:37 AM']We did this as a request one night. I think its the kind of song that should be busked unheard than perfect swatty bum lick.[/quote] I've done both - I busked this tune more or less unheard for quite some time in a function band, and after that I transcribed and worked it out more or less note for note for a Dusty tribute band. The busking method certainly had its charms, but in my opinion there is no substitute for the transcribing option; it is the best way to get into the mindset of the musician who played the part. And you can always busk it afterwards, with the knowledge that you are doing so from the point of view of adding to the canon, rather than noodling around disrepectfully :-) I'm certainly not advocating note-for-note transcriptions of all the songs one plays - life is too short - but some basslines are worth it. "Son of a Preacher Man" is one of these IMHO. Jennifer

I have done a full transcription/adaptation of this bassline, but it's in notation only, not tab. Let me know if you'd like me to send it to you - I believe the recorded key is E, right? Jennifer

[quote name='steve-norris' post='379843' date='Jan 13 2009, 11:36 PM']Pictures are great to start but i found that it was a struggle to make it stick, One way to really get them into your head is to take songs you know and name the notes as you play through. Do the same as you play scales, especialy two octave scales and it really opens up.[/quote] I agree with this - I accept that it may not be the case for everyone, but gazing at fretboard diagrams did nothing to help me create a practical "muscle memory" of where the notes are, the kind of memory you need to read music, or improvise, for example. Same with fretboard diagrams of scales... instead, I had to work out how scales were generated, then form the patterns based on the theory. Steve's examples in my experience work well, as does another posted somewhere on the Internet by John Patitucci, which is deceptively simple: select a note, say E, then starting at the nut end of the bass, a four string in this case, gradually work your way up the neck playing every instance of that note. For E this would be the open E string, then E on fret 2 of the D string, E on fret 7 of the A string, E on fret 9 of the G string, then E on fret 12 of the E string, etc., until you run out of neck. Then do it all again back down the neck. Basses with additional strings will be different, of course. Sounds easy? It's amazing how many people cannot do this effectively, but if you work in it until you are fluent for all 12 notes the fingerboard really opens up. Jennifer