Beedster

Mesa Boogie 1516EV Broke my car with one in 2011, lost one to a courier in 2013. Love the hifi tone from a big back ugly box that's only marginally smaller than Luxembourg and has the aesthetics of a Soviet tank regiment

Why are bassists so obsessed with compression?

Exactly my point (more flawed physics I'm sure, there's never a physicist around when you need one is there)

Agree, that was in part the basis of my comment re my old Wal. It's all about energy, the world's most resonant bass can only do so in response to the energy put into it, it's not creating it's own. I get the argument that some instruments might simply soak up that energy resulting in no sustain but also no discernible improvement in other parameters, but is it possible that some basses transfer that energy in a different way, less sustain but a more pronounced envelope?

Well as the OP (A) I’ve found it useful, and without the tendency towards the above format we’d have no need for a bass forum really

But few who have done it as reliably as Eurosender

Did someone say Goblins?

Part of my reason for posting this thread was this: Whether we agree that sustain is desirable in bass playing or not - and I agree that all other things being equal it's better to have it and not use it than vice versa, as long as all other things are indeed equal - there's a definitive sense of 'better instruments sustain more' that posits sustain as a de facto desirable thing. I'm not convinced. There's an argument that better engineered systems (instruments) resonate more in a previous post, but that's perhaps a by-product of some instruments and not a design feature of all; it is an argument that seems to have become widely accepted however. But you could equally argue that better engineered systems should resonate less; most engineers would prefer the latter, especially those that build bridges :) My second Wal fretless, a MK1, was, like all Wals, a wonderfully engineered and crafted instrument, it was a joy to play and had the most amazingly evocative and nasal tone. But it did not sustain at all, it was articulate as flip, really spoke when I played it, and I loved it, because frankly I found it so much easier to play because it didn't sustain. I also wonder - and this is the 'all other things being equal above - whether the absence of sustain added something to the tone and articulateness, and to the amazing ability that bass had to put what I played straight out of my speaker (it was the first bass on which I was ever able to play Rhythm Stick, and it was fretless!). I have a mandolin that doesn't sustain at all, a US made Breedlove, so again a very well built instrument, and one that I love; my previous mandolin would ring out for several seconds comfortably but again was harder to play. I get that in some situations sustain is desirable and in others it's not, but this isn't about that. I've just never bought the idea that sustain is a de facto indicator of quality in the way some people argue it is. Thoughts?

It's how they deal with the bad days that count. This bunch of absolute clown do not appear to have a system for doing so, avoid like the plague

It's generally sound advice with most genres

That's really very good

I always play heavy flats and very high action to deter any guitarist from even trying

Absolutely, my fave Lizzie album

Now on The Yes Album, on evidence to date I certainly prefer Squire's tone and lines to Lee, but still think Rush have the edge overall.....

Fretless (Wal) on Drama?

Assume joking

i had that for a long time Phil, the problem for me was that I can use the J-Retro make the bass sound so bloody perfect and hifi in the living room - in my case I was going for tones that allowed lines by people like Flea to sound good soloed, zingy top and thumpy bottom - that I kinda fell in love with certain settings that simply didn't work in the band. I needed far more mids in the mix than I was using, and my lines were disappearing. A useful exercise for me was listening to some of the recorded bass parts I was playing soloed, and realising for example that a lot of the bottom end I thought I was hearing on the bass part was kick drum, and a lot of the zingy top was coming from places other than the bass - cymbals and guitar I guess. In short the J-Retro was allowing me to get close to a recorded bass tone that didn't exist (does that make sense) There is certainly no problem at all with the J-Retro, it makes it far easier to get good live sound than either a passive circuit or most active circuits (the mid sweep is very powerful), but it also seduces you with lovely solo tones that do not land live.

I'd go further to say variation even within individual songs! Yes, counterpoint, that's what I could hear and was referring to when I mentioned folk influences. Choral makes sense, Jethro Tull had an element of it as well (and were far more openly folky I guess). The bass so far is amazing, as I said, I want my C64 back, I can see why bands like Rush and Yes get a lot of airtime on BC while bands like Zep and Floyd - arguably their equals musically - don't, great bass players in both Jones and Waters, but in both Rush and Yes the bass is so front and centre of everything.

Some great comments here folks. I think going back to Maude's comment, do better constructed basses sustain for longer? Do otherwise very well constructed basses ever have low sustain? Can a bass with low sustain be considered a very good bass despite this? I just wonder if using sustain as a proxy for instrument quality might be misleading?

Fragile is better, strong start in Roundabout, and the album is far more coherent than the stuff I listened to yesterday (compilation so not surprising) and Drama, overall a bit more accessible I guess. Keyboards a different world (get the point re Downes versus Wakeman), obvious classical/orchestral influences on keys and guitars, and some of the changes feel quite folky to me?

Thanks, Fragile was also a good friend's recommendation

Thanks, Fragile was also a good friend's recommendation

No, not at all, genuinely wondering whether I was missing something, if I was going to troll I would have chosen one of the contemporary virtuoso bands, Snarky Puppy etc

As a close friend said to me after coming to see my band for the first time; 'Not as bad as I thought it was going to be" First up, I really wish I still had my C64. There is some sublime bass playing and tone on there. Given it's the definitive Ric tone to my ear, someone will be along soon to tell me it was played on a Wal, Jazz or worse........ Second, it was OK musically. I can see why people like them, but I can equally see why people don't like them Third, there were sublime moments - the harmonies, the rhythms, the bass tone - but there were some ridiculous moments as well, the wedding march in the first track just seemed one of those 'did it because we could' as opposed to 'did it because we should' things. I also found the production on the keyboards and most of the guitars pretty awful, but then again, that's how it was at that point in time. But overall I felt that in about 40 minutes of tracks there were 10 minutes of sublime music and 10 minutes of the opposite, with 20 minutes of average. The sublime and not so sublime were unfortunately not, as is so often the case, isolated in sublime or ridiculous tracks (e.g., Long & Winding Road versus Octopus' Garden), but spread evenly across the whole album. I feel the need to sit down for a few days at my desk and edit the album to put all the sublime bits into three or four tracks! And if I compare to Rush, yes, I see similarities (perhaps why WoT suggested this album). I still feel that Rush have a stronger song focus. Would I listen to it in the car on a long journey? No Would I listen to it loud on my hifi with a beer or two or decent bottle of red when the girls are all out: Yes, production is great Would I like to play in a tribute band doing this stuff: Hell yes Am I going to try another Yes album: Yes

So this morning I am going to be cutting wood on the garden with Drama on the headphones. I will give the whole album a fair hearing and report back........