Bloopdad1

That would be interesting to bow!

Expensive game for the good 'uns! Eudoxas are knocking on almost £900 for a set..

Evahs are not that expensive for bass strings....! Have a look at how much a set of Eudoxas are (then think about the extra £210 needed for the B string on a 5 string bass!). I suggested Evahs as they are very easy on the hands and give a "decent middle of the road" sound. They bow "ok" and give a decent pizz. Medium set for general, light if you're mostly pizz. Don't forget that Evahs are usually dead after about 18months of heavy playing. Tempera Hybrids would be another option as would Belcantos (plus many more down the string rabbit hole!) Either way, have fun.

Eleven years....! Leatherwood rosin. I had 2 blocks given to me which I shared with the section (if I remember I had a 40% and a 50%?). The resounding opinion was that initially it was good. Nice tone, no scratchy sound and positively gripped the string. But... After a good 45mins of Bruchner then Neilson 4th symphony we all found that our bow hairs were "melted" together and we basically had one solid polished shiny ribbon of hair that slid over the strings with very little grip/feeling!!! After a good going over with a comb and clean toothbrush (yes, the old tricks still work best!) we went back to using our usual stuff and no further issues. We were in a A/C hall so temperature and humidity wouldn't have been an issue? It just didn't work for myself or the rest of the section. (oh, and I think at the time they would've cost £70!!!) Nice fancy pouch though... 😁 But that's just my experience, yours might be different.

Playing the Bottesini is made so much easier with a quality bow... It gets interesting about halfway through... The bow is an extension of your arm and should require no effort to keep it under control. It always has to be in perfect contact with the string to draw out the tone and power the top of the bass to "sing". As I've said before, plucking a bass is only about 10% of what it can really do...

Lol! 😂 Lol! 😂 They literally are magical... A bow is a bow is a bow.... They may all look the same but if you play the same bass with 10 different bows you'll get 10 different sounds out of the bass.... A bass is just a structurally supported front table that vibrates, it's the bow that "tells" it exactly how to vibrate. It's how you express yourself on the instrument. The back, neck, bridge, strings, ribs tailpiece etc are all "disposable" and relatively easy to replace. The main bits, and to make a decent noise (vibration) is the relationship between the front and the bow. I have 3 main bows a very lively one (135g) for Mozart, Bach etc (Baroque) a beefy (148g) but lyrical one for standard orchestral playing and a really heavy, wide but short pit bow (155g) for theatre work/Opera. They're all very different. But like Harry Potter not every bow (wand) will suit every player... It can take years to find "your bow". There are some decent new bow makers (Archetiers make bows, Luthiers make instruments) out there... McGill Tunnicliffe (retired) A Reis T Richards. All making some decent bows. (they also will work with your budget, if you went to Tim Richards and said make me a bow that is springy, good for Brahms / Mendelssohn and about 140g for £500 he would. If you also said make me one for £12k he also would - it would look very much like the £500 one, but it'll just have a MUCH MUCH better quality Perrnambuco stick). Magic

Bows, don't get me started...! Invest in the stick. Remember that a bow is the instruments amplifier. You'll only ever get 10% of what a bass can do just by plucking it. Get about 5 bows on trial, take the price tags off them and play them for a week - often it's the second cheapest bow will be the one that speaks to you. Go for something around 140g to 150g. Slow down your bow to really drag the tone out of the instrument. (this is mega important - light bows around 132g are pants). The stick needs to be strong enough to draw out a proper fff and flexible enough to fly around (spiccato, ricochet, double take etc) without flying off the string. Warm left hand vibrato helps with bow intensity. Remember to relax your forearm and bow from your shoulder. If you feel aching in your hand (thumb base) you're doing it wrong. Don't forget about rosin... Get a pot of Kolstiene all weather, Nymans or Carlsson (and learn how to apply it properly! 😂) Get your soundpost set up correctly - it makes a MASSIVE difference to how the strings respond to the bow. I've been playing in pro orchestras for 35yrs and it's still a bloody mystery! I could go on.... 😂 Most important is to not expect to much too soon and just have fun.

Awesome. Sounds like a decent instrument. Invest in a set of Evah Pirazzi (or similar strings) and it'll be a mega instrument. Happy playing.

For my two peneth (and as a double bassist that dabble on a B guitar I am biased!) if you're compromising on a shorter scale purely for transport reasons I think you'll always be looking for "that" sound that only a proper scale bass (41" to 43") with proper bass strings on will give you.... Plus bowing a proper scale bass is where it's at. 34" scale... Stick to bass guitar If you're looking for a proper bass sound = don't compromise having the proper scale and genuine bass strings. Only my opinion.

And not forgetting the wonderfully complex and rich sound of a bowed violin is almost as glorious as a top quality bowed bass... 😁

I second the advice of learning to use a bow. Playing with your fingers only unlocks about 10% of what a bass can actually do. Arco is where it's at. Obviously when you pluck a string it's only going one way.... Dying away. With a bow you can REALLY shake the walls. You don't see many violinist solely plucking... its exactly the same for the bass. Get a bow, decent strings and a pot of Nymans / Kolstiene and let rip. Remember, 500 yrs ago the bass was designed to be bowed, never plucked (that's why it's the shape it is) But more importantly, have fun.

It's a you thing.... 😁

I have Baker style machines on my new Penning 5st. The Healey tuners are without compromise and the best in the business (obviously reflected in the price).

Yes, just using the Tourte between the G&D strings does work quite well, but subtle - stand in front of your section with a "standard fit" mute then get them to switch to the top 2 strings and listen to the difference... It's not massive but it does make a bit of a difference. IMO Muting only really works well on seriously good very old English / Italian basses (£££££££). For us mere mortals stick it between the top 2 strings and give it a go. (after being told off for not being muted enough, those of us in the section with 5 stringers borrowed a second Tourte and used 2 - muting the G&D and the B&E strings at the same time ('cos we're badass 😎) .... It got us through a boring slog of Vaughan Williams with wry smiles on our faces!)

Get a Tourte mute from a reputable company, there are loads of Chinese copies out there. Often the copies are smaller and made of plastic that's just too hard. You could use one of those MAHOOSIVE ebony comb mutes but they are a proper pita!! (Oh, and remember that a mute is used to change the sound of an instrument and not necessarily to make it quieter.) Attach it between the G and D string as muting the bigger strings doesn't have that much of an effect. Practice mutes on the other hand are a completely different thing!

Top tip. We do a "bow run". We wait until all of us needs a rehair (about once every 12-18mths) then one of the section members takes all the bows in one trip (plus a few cellos if they ask us VERY nicely). The orchestra sounds a bit ropey for a week as we're all using our spare bows. 😂 Saves the risk of posting off an £8k bow in a plastic tube! Alessi Reis did our lot last time - reccomended.

From your original post you mentioned that you'd seen similar German basses from the 1880's with dramatically differing prices... It's all about the sound, feel and projection. They're priced differently because they sound / play differently. Firstly (and most importantly) It's all about the sound and playability. Secondary the condition. Third, it's about the pedigree / provenance (resale value) Fourth, the construction / woods. Fith, can you convince the missus you're buying another bass....? A '70's P bass - you kinda know what you're getting as it's a factory made instrument... Luthier made instruments differ massively from one to the other. I know of a 250yr old Italian Ceruti bass that was sold recently for $250,000 in NY, it did the rounds in the UK in the '80's and' 90's before it went across the pond, I played it once (as did loads of others when they were trying to sell it) - It just didn't make a sound - a complete dog! I've played plywood instruments that sounded much better! But because it's a Ceruti, people (well, Americans, ha, ha) forked out for it. As advised, try as many basses as you can. You'll soon discover what price mark you need to be looking at. Also, only go to trusted dealers or better still, talk to players in your local pro orchestra. Many will know of a decent bass for sale. One tip - steer clear of a pristine condition old bass. It obviously hasn't been played as often, they just don't seem work so players park them up and avoid them (like the Ceruti mentioned above) - better to go for a battered, scratched, chipped one.... It's been played every week all of its life for the last +100yrs because it just works - "it's a good 'un". Good luck hunting for your instrument.

I get 2yrs max out of a set of Evahs (playing around 4x a week 80% arco). I think they're still ok after 2yrs but when I put a new set on its immediately obvious that the last set were completely dead! Solid core steel strings last for decades, synthetics not so. I've switched to Temperas as I've been promised they'll last at least double the service life of Evahs. We shall see...