Bloopdad1

Yep, pretty much what I said. My main orchestral 4 stringer is blockless. It's completely stable, light as a feather and sounds glorious. But he states that the neck on this bass is too narrow (ex 3 stringer) to take 4 strings. He mentioned that a standard width fingerboard protrudes either side of the neck... So to sort that out he's unfortunately probably looking at a new neck... (say hi to Mr Alcock for me)

Remember, the bow is the basses "amplifier". If you've always plucked or fingered a bass the note can only have ever at first sustained then it will ALWAYS decay.. . With a bow you enter the other 50% of the world! The world of crescendo... As others have suggested go to a teacher just for a few basic lessons. Arco is where its at! Pizz gets you about 10% of what a bass can REALLY do. (mind you I've been doing it for 40yrs and still learn every time I pick the bloody thing up!) Oh, BTW, either go for Nymans or Pops (don't let them dry out, they go "off" when left out). Learn how to apply rosin - it really isn't how you think you apply it!

Tough decision. I don't know what I'd do...? FYI, once it's tarted up and it turns out well it'll be worth +£5k. If you get it converted to blocked it'll be worth about +£6.5k (but the conversion will be in the ballpark of £1.5k). Unfortunately for it to really sing all that yuck Ronseal varnish will have to be removed. Two ways of doing this... Either painstakingly removing carefully the ronseal to reveal the original finish (it'll take weeks!) Or strip it back to wood and apply a new finish (the Luthier would probably find a few old repairs that will need addressing). Then there's a new neck to fit... It all depends on how good a piece of spruce the top is made from. If it has uniform, straight tight grain with no big repairs or knots then it should produce a good sound. It's a tough choice, and a big job and not cheap unfortunately but at the end I've no doubt that it'll be a decent instrument. All this is in my opinion and with only your pics to go by. Either way, good luck.

One things for sure 99.99% of all blockless basses have the distinctive "hump" where the ribs joint into the neck boot. (that's how to spot them instantly) They're inherently weaker than a standard constructed bass, often poorly made (beech necks) and are very expensive to convert them to blocked. But boy, do they sound amazing!! Out of all my basses the blockless sounds the best. In my section my desk partner plays a Hawkes Panormo and there's also basses by Dawson, Lowendal, Hart and Tarr. My little blockless wonder blows them all away.

The "boot" joint on a blockless bass is difficult to describe. But once you know what to look for it's like night and day! Best thing to do is familiarise yourself with images of the boot and look through the F holes up to the base of the neck inside. If it's a large "pad" of wood then it's already been converted. If it looks like a narly carved boot like thing then it's original (using a mirror and torch can help). As long as the neck doesn't w the neck doesn't wobble it's a decent bass. I'll dig out a couple of pics of a boot joint later. Look up the tyrol / blockless bass group on Facebook. Loads of examples there.

Don't forget that it's a blockless bass (no neck block). Saxon/Tyrolean/southern German around 1880 It's a decent old bass and once sorted should sound better than any laminate instrument. Providing as you said that the table is in good nick, the work described (bridge, post, tail piece etc) is reflectively cosmetic. It's defiantly worth the investment. Once repaired get a price to have it converted to standard construction from blockless. That's why the fingerboard is wider than the neck - to replace the neck from a 3 string width to 4, the conversion from blockless will need to be done first. Then you can have a new neck grafted to the new block. One of my basses is blockless - it has an absolutely superb sound, better than many Italian basses I've played worth well over £80k. That's why they are often called "blockless wonders" in orchestral circles.

Bass Luthier ship their customers new instruments all over the world. Fright cases are available (with air compressors for the air bags and humidifiers as appropriate). Touring orchestras have loads of these cases. Most orchestras touring through Europe however load the instruments (including harps, percussion etc) on a wagon and that drives overnight while the musicians fly. As you're moving and not touring I'd look to drive it myself. Or pay an insured specialists courier.

All 3 of my double basses sound great either through my BB2 or my Super Midget. They're so good that I instantly sold all my Bergantino cabs the week after I first tried a BF 12" cab. The Super Midget loves theatre pit work and the BB2 eats up big bands and loud jazz stuff. (obviously both superb for bass guitar). Can't comment on the BB3, can it be even better!?!??!?

Bloody 'el...! If you think £160 is expensive for a set of double bass strings you ought to Google Pirastro Eudoxa! They're about £650 for a standard 4 string set! (and my main orchestral bass is a 5 string....) 😁 Gulp!

No... Stay away from the Headband. Lots of negative comments on it on another thread.

Almost every Luthier and Archetier will let you have a trial. That's kinda how it's done. Off the top of my head Bow speed, Tim Richards, Turners, Martins, Adrian McGill, Bristol Violins, Ealing Strings, Gallery Strings, A Reis, Ken Knussen, Ed Gaunt, Brian Tunnicliffe - [retired but probably the best archetier in the UK] plus many more I'm sure, all offer to mail out a selection of bows to try. The archetiers mentioned above (Tim, Brian, A Reis, Ed and Andrew plus many many more) all offer to make exactly what you want for whatever budget you have with the reassurance that you're not committed to buy it if it's not right. But beware, bows go from £100 to £80,000 for a gorgeous Satory french job!

When you buy a bow (or a double bass) you usually arrange to have it for a few weeks trial to see if you like it. (Alternatively an archetier - bow maker, will make you a bow and if you can't get on with it won't charge you for it).

1. Get a teacher (if only for basic posture and technique) 2. Get a bass bow (you teacher will advise you on one) and remember that plucking a bass is limiting yourself to only 10% of what a bass can do - arco is where its at! 3. Buy bass specific rosin (Nymans, Pops, Carlsonn, Leatherwood etc etc) and learn how to apply it properly. NEVER USE HARD POWDERY VIOLIN/CELLO ROSIN 4. Stick proper double bass strings on it (Pirastro Evahs, Thomastic Belcantos, Spyros etc etc your teacher can advise) 5. Practice little and often at first. 6. DO NOT THINK THAT IT'S LIKE A BASS GUITAR every note comes from your biggest muscles. 7. Do not pluck with your finger tips like a bass guitar, they're too weak, pizz with the side of your whole fingers where the muscle mass is. A 41.5" string length is a lot of string to move! 8. Enjoy it and have patience. (and get a teacher!) 😜 Oh, forgot to say, bow lengths doesn't really matter. It's all about the ribbon width, balance, "bow spring", how it feels, how it grabs the string and how the frog feels in your hand. The bow draws out the tone of the bass. A different bow will make the same bass sound completely different. Most importantly it's about the weight. 128g is too light for me, some section players trialed super heavy bows at around 170g about 15yrs ago. The "norm" is around 140g for a decent bow (I prefer slightly heavier - my main bow is 148g) but it's completely subjective.... And everything I've said relates to a French style bow, German patterns are completely different and a whole different conversation! But remember, the bass is a bass, the bow is the amplifier and what provides expression! (you can't make a note considerably louder once you've plucked it! With a bow, you can - and SO much more).

1. Get a teacher (if only for basic posture and technique) 2. Get a bass bow (you teacher will advise you on one) and remember that plucking a bass is limiting yourself to only 10% of what a bass can do - arco is where its at! 3. Buy bass specific rosin (Nymans, Pops, Carlsonn, Leatherwood etc etc) and learn how to apply it properly. NEVER USE HARD POWDERY VIOLIN/CELLO ROSIN 4. Stick proper double bass strings on it (Pirastro Evahs, Thomastic Belcantos, Spyros etc etc your teacher can advise) 5. Practice little and often at first. 6. DO NOT THINK THAT IT'S LIKE A BASS GUITAR every note comes from your biggest muscles. 7. Do not pluck with your finger tips like a bass guitar, they're too weak, pizz with the side of your whole fingers where the muscle mass is. A 41.5" string length is a lot of string to move! 8. Enjoy it and have patience. (and get a teacher!) 😜

Also depends on the music you're playing... I tried Leatherwood rosin (40% & 50%) for a season. Found it only "OK" for lighter styles like Mozart, Haydn, Purcell etc but it "gave up" playing heavier rep like Shostakovic, Mahler, Stravinsky, Brahms and Berlioz etc. Best I can describe it was after about 20mins of heavy playing my bow hair looked like a ribbon of sellotape...! No individual hairs, just all clumped together in one shiny band. Very strange. I've spoken to a few bassists and they have found the same. Weather it works better with gut I can't say... But I've stopped using the stuff. Can't comment on the oak rosin... Not tried it. Plus all my basses have metal strings, no gut. Have you tried Carlsson rosin? Looks like Nymans but not as sticky. I used that for a while, great stuff. Also an American guy I used to work with swore by Wiedoeft rosin but again I haven't tried it. I'm back using Pops because it's cheap and easily available (although it does splatter the front of my nice 200yr old bass with dusty white spots!!), and as you say it's very prone to melting and escaping out of its pot all over your freshly ironed black concert shirt... Grr! 😂

My desk partner (using his wonky German bow!) swears by Sam Kolstein Rosin (Black rosin in a gold pot), He also uses it on his baroque bow and bass strung with guts. Not my cup of tea as its a "hard powder style" rosin...rubbish when I tried it on my steels. But to be fair he makes a very decent sound. You could also look at Leatherwood rosin and ask for a specific blend suitable for gut? (but it is horrendously expensive).

Nymans.

Hi Me again....! Just checked out the ebay link and it definitely looks like a bow! Although I'm most concerned with its length - it's listed at 705cm long!!!! You'd be able to bow a full section of 8 basses all at once with a 7m bow! 😂 Obviously a typo... But it is advertised as a 3/4 bow which would be far too small for an adult OR the seller could mean that its for a 3/4 bass?? Which would make it a "full size bow" suitable for 3/4, 7/8 and full size basses (including 5 stringers) .... If the seller can't get the basics right I'd be wary, plus looking at it I'd be surprised if it is indeed 140g (if it is 140g then the balance is definitely in the wrong place simply by looking at the stick!) The only way to buy a bow is with a trial (if you can) and also be advised by a teacher who will assess your needs. Oh, don't forget the rosin, that makes a HUGE difference - buy a pot of "Pops" or "Nymans" (about £14'ish), swipe/melt loads on and use slow, heavy, grippy bow strokes using the power of your upper arm and shoulder (DO NOT USE CELLO/VIOLIN HARD POWDERY ROSIN when you're learning, it'll set you back months) plus it'll screech and p*ss off the missus, cat, neighbours etc etc Oh, and get a teacher just to set you on the straight and narrow (only for 2 or 3 lessons) Also have a look on Gumtree, there are a few decent used bows on there right now.

Congratulations Sean on your new bass (get a teacher, you cheap skate!!!!) 😜 and well done for realising you must take a different approach to playing it, compared to a soulless plank with pickups 🤣 Oh, boy... Where do I start.... A bow is VERY subjective and personal. Its the thing I have the most difficulty explaining. The best way I can explain it is that the bass is the instrument, the bow is the amplifier. The bow DRAWS the sound out of the bass... Or, a Ferrari is the "bass" and the super sticky Pirellis is the "bow".. As you're just starting out it'll be a really alien thing... Go for second hand, cheap carbon fiber or "student" bow around £250?? The more you spend the smaller the gained improvements.. The money isn't in the hair, ferrule, screw, frog or inlays... Its ALL down to the stick. (Go for something around 140g). I can't begin how to explain about feel/balance and how the stick flexes minutely to grab the string, I just don't have the vocabulary. The feeling from the bow playing spicatto or ricochet, even double takes is addictive when you have a decent bow. Different bows really do draw a different sound out of a bass. Some enables the bass to project much more and others are much more articulate. I reckon I can play 80% of my rep on a standard £500 student bow and make a decent job of it. I have a "bog standard" but heavy Andrew McGill bow at £3500 and a gorgeous Tunnicliffe bow at +£6000 - the difference is tiny between the two, could the McGill do what the Tunnicliffe can do? Of course it can to about 99.99%... Do you need to spend that much? - of course not. Can a £12000 Fodera play a 12 bar blues better than a Mexican Squire? Possibly, but maybe not £11500 better... Bows = a minefield of subjectivity and trial and error. My first bow cost £50 made of plastic and was wonderful. Get a teacher! 😂

Agreed... (thats if the OP wants to turn to the dark side and go down the arco path!) My old teacher said "for beginners a rough guide is to spend about a 1/4 of the value of your instrument on your bow." (or something like that!)

When you play bass you don't actually look at the neck (just like a violin, viola and cello - you physically can't see the neck on those instruments as your playing them). Fretted instruments are much simpler to play but also quite restrictive (frets confuse me if I look down at them... Nasty little finger traps as I call them! I find it easier and more natural not to look!) It's all about string stop, neck heel, arm shoulder and head positioning and most importantly practice practice practice...

Nice one. Great job done - plus it's nice to see that the 3 tuners have been fitted to the correct side of the peg box leaving the other 2 on the "bass" side. Bowing - buy a pot of "Pops" or "Nymans" put loads on and take it slowly with lots of bow weight. Enjoy