TrevorR

Surely this all comes down to the physics of electronic distortion? This is super oversimplifying the process but... A fuzz pedal puts lots of clipped harmonics and overtones into the signal/sound. Some of these sound pleasant to the ear, some sound unpleasant. Guitar and bass speakers tend to be designed to filter out the less nice frequencies (initially by accident rather than design). That sweetens the sound up. A straight DI (either from a DI box or out of the back of your amp) doesn't do this. You get the bad and the good. Or at least much more of the bad. Put that through a high fidelity system like a PA and you get loads of the nasty right up, in your face! Fizz city! So that is why products like Sansamp and Palmer include speaker simulators in their DI boxes so that you can get a sound more like going through a bass Amp and speaker - and which filter out the less pleasant sounding harmonics and overtones. It's the same reason you barely see electric guitarists going DI, much of their sound is predicated on the taming effect which a guitar amp speaker has on the distorted sound. A DI from a guitar amp would sound horrendously fizzy when using distortion or overdrive. Might be worth investing in a speaker sim. At our church I run straight into the PA and, even without using any distortion I much prefer the sound of a speaker sim preamp. I use a Tech 21 VT Bass DI. Does that explanation make sense?

[quote name='fleabag' timestamp='1441800968' post='2861862'] Vintage = Low-Fi Modern = Hi-Fi I'm partial to something inbetween. Mid-Fi [/quote] I'm not sure which I prefer and the reasons for that preference... Why-Fi

That's really not my kinda bass. But as not my kinda basses go that's one really really lovely not my kinda bass!!! Hmmmm... Starting to get seriously tempted by this brand!

Anything by Tom Lehrer but Poisoning Pigeons In The Park is a fave. http://youtu.be/yhuMLpdnOjY Also, the Wombles had some great tracks on their albums, often parodying popular styles... I suppose we've got Mike Batt to thank/blame for that! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgXrkMi1At8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxwoSg_M_vE http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv0_3yYITA4

Lots of good suggestions so far. Can't believe that no one has suggested The Killers' Mr Brightside, though. Never seen a song fill a dance floor like that one. Apologies for suggesting it but Have A Nice Day by the Sereophonics or Travis' Why Does It Always Rain On Me would fit in, and are crowd pleasers too. Also the punters do envoy singing along to Don't Look Back In Anger towards the end of the evening expect blokes with arms around each other's shoulders and beer glasses being waved in the air. Apologies if those are all really populist choices. But there is a reason why popular songs are popular... People like them! :-)

It strikes me that none of the supposed commercial downsides of No 1 will ever actually happen... More gigs with a prettier singer? As a function band you'll get most gigs from your website/promo materials so just make sure that you choose flattering shots. The other gigs will come from word of mouth or people seeing you at a function and giving a kicking performance is what will win those gigs not a comparison against a singer that the potential client has never seen anyway! Go for the better singer and the more pro attitude and then ask No 2 if she might be willing to dep on gigs that No 1 can't make or where you want to go for a bigger, harmony sound. That might suit a serious hobby singer better anyway!

The purchase of my Wal Pro bass was an 18 month price education process... It went on sale at one and a half grand. I eventually bought it for £550! "This bass was picked up second hand in a local guitar shop in 2001 after a haggling session which lasted over a year and a half! When I first saw it in the shop it was priced the same as a brand new "Custom" bass. I made a sensible offer which was rejected. Over the next 18 months I watched as the layer of dust on the bass grew thicker, popping in once a month to have a play on it and repeat my offer. Well, after I had popped in about once every months to offer a sensible price for well over a year the owner eventually relented (after I popped in with a just published magazine article on the model for him to look at which quoted a sensible, at the time, £500 market price. Sadly he wasn't there at the time so is never got to see the look on his face). A phone call back from the shop that afternoon and the handing over of £550 later... and it was finally mine! http://walbasshistory.blogspot.co.uk/2014/06/my-basses-1978-wal-pro-series-bass.html

Not a Bass 8 but not far off... http://youtu.be/Z9qBimkVGg4 And this Egmond history might give some info... Egmond and Rosetti instruments were big in the 60s before "proper" American instruments hadn't really made it to the UK in any numbers... http://www.egmond.se/egmond_se_History.html

I use these. Really bright and they use ordinary batteries not coin types http://www.amazon.co.uk/Mighty-Bright-Blue-Xtraflex-Light/dp/1935009036/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1441787010&sr=8-5&keywords=Mighty+bright+led+light

Or try our these guys. Use them for all my cables. Fantastic quality and reasonably priced... http://www.award-session.com/cleartone_cables.html

These guys will do you a really good quality one at a very reasonable price... http://www.award-session.com/cleartone_cables.html

Or there is the old kiddies drawing book "copy this picture" method. Print out the plan, draw a grid, say 1cm square over it. On a large sheet of paper draw a bigger grid, say 2.5 cm square or what ever is needed for the scale up. On the big grid mark the point in any square where each line crosses the smaller grid on the original plan. Then you can join the dots on the big sheet either freehand or with French Curves.

That's an interesting concept. So are you trying to create a natural chorus effect between you and the guitar player? That could be a risky ploy. I imagine that it's a very fine line between spaceyness and just sounding horribly out of tune. Don't reckon I'd ever be brave enough to try it and would either just live with a straight trio sound or throw a chorus and tremolo pedal in on occasion to add texture...

I think the advice here nails it. Think about mids for definition and punch rather than bass. Angle the cabs/ a cab up at your ears rather than your knees. See if you can find a stage placement for your cabs that you and the drummer can hear but which places the singer less in the firing line. Those were three of the four things which sprang to mind. The other was decoupling your cab from the floor/stage if that is resonating with your low frequencies. An up turned beer crate from the bar to set a cab on should suffice (looks better than a stool or chair).

I use this. It has two input channels and has a switchable option to route them to each ear ore sum them in both. I use a mono input summed across both. Great little bit of kit... http://www.thomann.de/gb/fischer_amps_inear_monitor_bp.htm

Updated my gear list on this to add the amp/cabs for the shootout... [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]1. Hamster -[/color] [color=#282828]2. Silverfoxnik - BC Rich Eagle, Yamaha TRB5, Roscoe Beck V, Yamaha BB300, Thunderfunk TBF550, Genz Benz 212[/color] [color=#282828]3. Billy Apple - Spector, Jule Monique, Demeter Minnie, EAD[/color] [color=#282828]4. Happy Jack - BC Rich Mockingbird, Shergold Marathon, Muller Fibreglass fretless; as well as Paul The Drums[/color] [color=#282828]5. Bluejay - something lefty and probably of the Warwick persuasion, provided I don't have another senior moment and leave it/them at home[/color] [color=#282828]6. Bassman Steve - Boogie and Barefaced stuff and a Precision or two[/color] [color=#282828]7. obbm - new micro-stack[/color] [color=#282828]8. Kiwi - GB Shuttle 6.0 and two fEARful F112 cabs, Spector 5, Status 5, Alembic, Pedulla...and maybe the Steinberger[/color] [color=#282828]9. Bottle - 1x12 Cab and 1x10 Combo, FX boards and rack amp, Ibanez bass.[/color] [color=#282828]10. TheGreek - something a little bit different[/color] [color=#282828]11. Mykesbass - Shuker 5 string fretless (old style P Bass), Carvin BX500 Head, Fender Rumble V3 112 cab.[/color] [color=#282828]12. Shockwave - Musicman Stingray 4, 3EQ, Could possibly bring my big pedalboard, but no amp to play through![/color] [color=#282828]13. Lozz19613 - US Standard Precision, Barefaced Super12T, [/color] [color=#282828]14. Merton - ACG Finn, Status Retroactive, possibly some Ashdown valve and Barefaced Gen 3 gear[/color] [color=#282828]15. Oldman - new Tolex covered Schroeder 1212L for the cab shootout and the RUACH Twins[/color] [color=#282828]16. Russ - Sei singlecut, Spector, maybe my Ibanez sixer, and my Barefaced Big Twin II and Ampeg SVT-7. Maybe a few pedals too.[/color] [color=#282828]17. Dropzone - interested in knowing about amps[/color] [color=#282828]18. BobVbass (?) - will probably drag RhandyThodes as well if he's about and bring Lakland Duck Dunn, Paisley P bass, Framus Double bass, Markbass and Barefaced Super 12T[/color] [color=#282828]19. Randythoades (?) - MIJ Aria basses, slimline upright, Ashdown cabs and GK head. Plus any acoustic /electric guitar related items too if needed[/color] [color=#282828]20. Rumblefish - Mesa Boogie Pulse 600,Berg CN 212,Reverend Rumblefish bass[/color] [color=#282828]21. hen_barn - Status kingbass, Status 5 string series 1, Tecamp puma 500, Vanderklays 2x10 1x12[/color] [color=#282828]22. JapanAxe - [/color][color=#282828]'73 Precision, G&L L1505, Fender Pawn Shop Mustang, Demeter VTBP-M-800D, Genz Benz Streamliner 900, Barefaced Compact & Midget; Orange Valve Tester, and probably Andyonbass[/color] [color=#282828]23. Sibob (?) - Fodera MGS, either a '71 Precision, Fender Japan/USA Precision Build or Fender Japan Medium Scale Jazz, LM2, Barefaced, Pedulz[/color][/font] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]24. Hector (?) - DeGier Bebop 5 and Limelight 63P. Could also bring my Tone Hammer pre[/color][/font] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]25. such - Fender Marcus and a couple of pedals, Cali76, Aguilar Tone Hammer, Joyo American[/color][/font] [font=arial,helvetica,sans-serif][color=#282828]26. Barneyg42 - Status 5 string S2 Classic (green LEDs), Status Series 1 5 string; TC BH500 into BC210 and 212[/color][/font] 27. Bassace - Bryant double bass, Clarus head and Crazy8 cab 28. NickD - Lakland Skyline 55-01, Thomann deko acoustic fretless 5 and maybe Bass Collection SB315 and Trace combo 29. Mikey R (?) - Blue Shuker course bass. 30. urb - Ableton/laptop rig plus Softstep pedal 31. mybass 32. WalMan - Gen3 Big Baby II, McMillen 12 Step, DSIMoPho 33. Seer73 - 2 x lefty basses - Warwick Corvette + Sire V7, Boss GT-6B, and a Warwick CCL 210 combo; possibly also drummer friend 34. NancyJohnson - couple of Gibson Thunderbirds, a Hamer FBIV, Lull JAXT4, Ashdown/Hartke/Tech21 rig. If I can bag a Hartke 2x10 by then (probably), I'll also biamp that with a TC Electronic BH800 35. TrevorR - MK 1 Wal Custom, Wal Pro IIE. Markbass Little Mark II and Traveler 2x10 & 1x15. Maybe Aria SB700 and Faith Neptune Titan Acoustic Bass 36. binky_bass - MarkBass SD1200 with a MarkBass CL106 cab; Binky the 10 string Bee Bass; 8-string Conklin Custom; 7-string Overwater; maybe Aries Custom 6 and Warwick SC Thumb 6 37. Musashimonkey - MTD USA 6 string; Tom Clements fretless 6 string; GK mb800; Barefaced BB2 and a Super Midget (Gen 3's) 38. ChunkyMunky (?) - Musicman Bongo 4HH 39. mrtcat - two BFM Simplex 1x12s (one with tweeter one without) for the shootout 40. Stingray5 (?) - MM Stingray5, MM Stingray fretless, TUNE TWB6, Trace Elliot GP12SMX 1x15 combo 41. StephenYork - [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Alpher Instruments 5'er, Squier VM P-bass 5'er, Aguilar TH500 and Barefaced Compact (Gen 1)[/font][/color]

I don't have an in principle problem with sun bursts (my Gordon Smith electric is a Gibson style yellow/cherry red burst) but I do detest the Encore and friends two/three colour burst which looks like a wee wee coloured bass with a thin black (or black and red) line around the edge. Aaah, I see that Gibson offer it as an option too... [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1441530390' post='2859466'] The only burst which I'd actively avoid is extreme examples of Gibson's "Fireburst" which when done badly looks more like "ketchupandmustardburst". No thanks [/quote]

Just read the story from start to finish. Always nice when a horror story has a happy ending!

[quote name='phil.c60' timestamp='1441394230' post='2858659'] ...and do you guys who dep regularly (whispers........)use a music stand for your charts? [/quote] A wedding/function band I used to play in used stands for charts but one of the things we offered was the ability to throw in requests on the fly if they were ones we knew. We had a core set of 30 or so tunes plus a folder of about 200 or so charts we could play (to a more or less standard if we wanted to). The punters appreciated it. The thing with stands is where you put them though. I've seen many with them chest high right in front of them which looks naff, but it's more than possible to have them down low and inconspicuous. Know plenty of other bands where stands are strictly forbidden... If I was doing it now I'd use OnSong on the iPad! Spot the stand in this photo, tucked in behind the speaker stand...

[quote name='mrtcat' timestamp='1441438651' post='2858841'] Maggie May is notoriously tricky to get the feel for. That's what happens when you let a guitarist lay down the bass part lol [/quote] Candidate for the "it's not note for note but in the same ball park" approach if there ever was one...

The [quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441403715' post='2858739'] Simply that really expensive and boutique instruments simply aren't required in that setting. [/quote] I get everything you say and pretty much agree right up to this statement... For me what is required any time I play irrespective of venue or setting is an instrument I feel at one with and which I love playing. It just so happens that for me that is a bass that is hand built and would cost four and a half grand to replace new. Or it could also be a bass that cost me all of £250 to build... The cost/value/kudos isn't the point. How I feel playing it (and that is down to how the sound and feel fits me) is the point.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441286405' post='2857556'] ...And I've long since held the view that, actually, nobody cares. The majority of an audience when you play live won't care. Other musicians might, but are you writing music to please other musicians? I had the experience recently of playing with many fantastic musicians, who played on various qualities of instruments. The instruments were completely sidelined by sheer raw talent and songwriting/performing ability. Nobody was interested in talking about which year Fender stopped making their switches out of bakelite, or what bass is best for metal. Everyone got stuck into the music without pretentiousness. So what compels us to still talk about what instruments and backline we need to play the crow & fiddle on a gloomy Saturday evening? Does it make any difference to the punters? What if you spent £500 on a bass, and £500 on an amp - Wouldn't that be good enough? [/quote] I've been following this thread with interest. Going back to the original questions posed I think there is a basic flaw in the premise, which seems to be that expensive gear is bought to impress the audience. I don't think anyone has ever done that. Or that different venues "deserve" different levels of gear. Of course, at any gig what really matters is the performance and how much it entertains the audience. Irrespective of the gear used. Of course. There are numerous reasons why people might use expensive gear. They range from "Because I can" to "Because it feels right and sounds right TO ME and that enhances my confidence which enhances my playing/feel/performance which enhances the audience's enjoyment". All valid in their own way. No value judgement or presumption of others noticing what the gear is involved. In my case at gigs I play two basses considered boutique and stupidly expensive now. I've played them in pubs, at clubs, at church, on festival tent stages, at wedding receptions, in a prison and corporate events. I played them at all those venues irrespective, for the simple reason that they are my basses and that's what I play. At no stage was an assessment of what the audience expected or warranted involved. Oh, and when one was temporarily retired while needing some TLC I played a Frankenjazz project bass instead. Total cost about £250. But I t felt and sounded great to me. So why do I play Wal basses as my main instruments? One reason. In 1987 I went to a Marshall amp demo at the London Guitar Show and fell in love with the look and sound of the basses being used for the demo. I thought, "Ooooh, I'd love to have one of those one day. I'd never be able to justify it, though." I then discovered that a lot of my favourite artists also used the brand which further cemented the desire. Fast forward 5 years and 15 years respectively and I managed to pick them up second hand for about £500 each - which at the time I could justify. And I love them. Ironically, at the current new prices I know I couldn't justify the cost for myself. I'd be very hard pushed to justify the current second hand prices for myself either. Others can, fair enough. Same with my Markbass amp. It was in my price range and fitted my needs from back line at larger gigs to cocktail bar acoustic gigs. That set up makes me feel good and boosts my playing confidence. That helps me perform better, that makes the band perform better and that means the audience gets a better show. Which is what they care about. Incidentally, I started on a Laney combo and later traded up to a Trace Elliott. When the Trace eventually died I got an Ashown rig, largely because a friend's sounded amazing to me. However, I really struggled to feel at home with mine and after about a year I sold it and bought the Markbass, which I love. But it was the sound (and portability) that won it for me. Not the kudos or price tag. The metal guy video is interesting. But it boils down into three simple statements... - if you don't have super cool gear, don't sweat it and don't feel inferior because of it - if you have super cool gear don't be an A-hole and prima donna about it - concentrate on doing a good show, that's what the punters care about. Fair enough!

I scored 10 points, respectable enough!

Aimee Mann comes to mind. Not quite sure if she's a bass player who plays guitar or a guitar player who plays bass, though...

[quote name='Beedster' timestamp='1441046390' post='2855649'] Quite a few guys appear to do the above, Flea, Geddy and Macca to name three. Any particular reason for this? [/quote] I wonder if, in fact (Flea excepted) it's just GAS at work. They use them for a period of time and then move on to the new "the best bass I've ever played, this is it, I've finally mated for life..." cf Geddy, Greg Lake, Jim Crichton from Saga, Bruce Thomas, Macca... And so on. We're incorrigible us bass players...