jimfist

I've been using my G5n for bass for quite some time with no complaints. Depending on what sort of tone you're looking for, you can be well-served by a Marshall or Hi-Watt rig, especially for vintage bass tones. Having IR loading on the G11 can help close that gap somewhat with some good-quality bass IRs. I do miss some of the bass specific stuff on the B3n. Not going to lie. I'm concerned about the G11 price, though. The Line 6 Pod Go seems like an incredible package with loads of bass stuff already there for the taking, and at a nice price. The G11 may be coming in at twice the price of the G5n, and there's a bit of stiff competition in that middle price point right now. I guess we'll see how this shakes out.

different strokes for certain. I had both the B3 and B3n and wound up selling the B3 in favor of the extra switches and IMO improved drive, amp, and cab sim models on the B3n. I did enjoy the B3 and gigged with it for a few years, but there were certain things about it that I couldn't get past. Operationally, the 3 button format drove me crazy for navigating sounds on the fly. And I couldn't for the life of me find a drive/distortion that I liked on the B3. The B3n allows me to navigate pretty easily across (up to) 7 individual effect blocks to switch on/off in Stompbox mode. No can do on the B3. That's just me, though....

Same for me. I do exactly this, but different modeler(s) and usually via Atomic CLR cabinets (12" coaxial).

As a point of reference, the B3n amps and cabs are much improved over the B3 in my opinion. This also goes for the Drive/Dirt pedal models. I can nail the SVT + 8x10 sound I prefer, and I really like the Acoustic 370+ 1x18" cab sim for old school sounds. The amps are solid. I wish there were more of them. B3n is a solid performer in that price range.

I believe it is a way to balance the levels between two patches that implement the volume/exp pedal, so that you don't have a wild jump in volume up or down. I've not tried this yet myself to confirm how it works, but I believe that is the thinking behind it. A lot of G3n/G5n/B3n users complained about this problem, so it looks like Zoom agreed and did something about it. Too bad, though, that it eats up a slot in the signal chain.

Probably because none of these units are purported by ZOOM to be MIDI capable units, and the only way you can access MIDI is by doing home-brew hacks and programming which are not publicly supported/condoned by ZOOM? Just a guess.

I can happily get along with either editor. I say to try both and use the one you like. The only thing with ToneLib is that it has to keep in step with any developments from Zoom in the future, but that doesn't seem to happen very often.

ToneLib has been updated now to work with the B3n.

Current ToneLib is not yet compatible with the new 2.0 firmware, but I've read that the creator is working on a re-write to make them compatible, if you prefer ToneLib over GuitarLab 3.0

Well, the long-awaited update to the most recent Zoom multi-effects (G5n, G3n, B3n) has finally happened in conjunction with a total overhaul of their companion editor/librarian, GuitarLab. The original GuitarLab software editor was so feature poor that it was almost embarrassing, and Zoom users have been waiting for them to produce a REAL editor for these effects pedals. Well, it's here now, and it's a solid offering. https://www.zoom.co.jp/news/GuitarLab_v3 Zoom also used the opportunity to add some new items to the B3n in addition to an entirely new firmware release (2.0):

The Zoom comps are good-to-go IMO. Two things where Zoom has missed the boat (For a long time) are: WET/DRY blend, and LEVEL meters for viewing gain reduction. That said, though the comps are a bit touchy an tricky to dial in, I find them to be satisfactory vs. many garden-variety dedicated comps, but with a few exceptions. For example, the TC SpectraComp (and other comps with computer interface that also implement the TONE PRINT feature) allows you to use a computer for extremely deep editing, since it is a true 3-band multi-comp, with each band having a full complement of parameters. It is really, REALLY deep in terms of features. This is hard to beat at this price point, but you really need a thorough understanding of multi-band compression or it's very easy to get lost.

GuitarLab software is the only thing I'm aware of offered by ZOOM for the B3n, G3n and G5n. Honestly, it is a pretty poor effort in terms of editing features. In fact, it's not really an editor in the sense you can create patches within GuitarLab. You can do individual and bulk preset backups, re-order and re-name presets, but primarily GuitarLab is for downloading new amps/cabs/effects onto your pedal, and also updating firmware. Again, weak by today's standards. Personally, I find all aspects of the Zoom B3n and G5n so simple to use on the pedal itself, I find myself only ever using the GuitarLab software to do occasional backups and upload new items when Zoom makes them available. But that's just me. An interesting aspect of the software is that it also allows you to completely REMOVE modeled items (amps/cabs/fx) if you so desire. (You can always retrieve them if you want to add them back to your pedal.) This is an interesting feature in the event that ZOOM eventually offers more amps/cabs/fx for the B3n than the physical memory of the pedal can handle. You can pick and choose what to keep and/or load onto your pedal. That's actually pretty unique in the amp/effects modeling world.

Hmmm. Here is the description of the Line Selector from the MS60B manual: This is different that what you describe. Is there something in this description that is missing/incomplete that allows for what you've described, which is PARALLEL wet & dry signal paths? Does the Line Selector in the pedal itself have parameters to indicate this type of parallel routing? can you provide a picture? If this PARALLEL routing feature were available as you describe, I think this is actually a pretty big deal that many bassists, myself included, aren't aware of it.

No. It doesn't have an "output 1" or "output 2". It has a Left and Right output (i.e. stereo). I agree with the notion that it would be great to do what you've described for certain applications, but I don't think we'll see this feature (purely speculation).

Zoom B1on multi-effect pedal is what I'd suggest in that price range. Just set it up so that only a Comp (a few to choose from) is in the signal path. Of course, it gives you a lot more than that if you choose to use it, the least of which are tuner, looper, rhythm box, and headphone output. https://www.thomann.de/gb/zoom_b1on.htm

[quote name='XoSo' timestamp='1507732649' post='3387583'] That's a real shame. From looking at the YouTube vids the boss unit looks better than the zoom. What puts me off the zoom is I had a zoom guitar multi-fx a few years back and it was a pile of junk, but like i said yhat was a few years back. Just throwing a curve ball in, if you wanted multi-fx and drums would you just get he zoom unit or the boss unit and add something like a mooer micro drummer? [/quote] These new ZOOM pedals are far from junk. As far as modeling multi-fx go, these are on the inexpensive side but they sound really good and are plenty roadworthy. I've been gigging with Zoom multi-fx pedals (B3, G5n, B3n) for about 5 years now, and they're solid, and an excellent value that perform far beyond their price point IMHO.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1508580875' post='3393048'] Hey Jimfist - have you had a chance to try out the Zoom MS-60B with the updated Gen 2.0 firmware which now provides 142 (up from 58) effect sims? If so, be interested in getting your thoughts on how that now compares to the B3n in terms of effects modelling (I appreciate it's not going to be in the same league for live performance with just on stomp button vs six (stomp / pedals) on the B3n)? [/quote] I had the MS-60B years ago, which was a gateway to the B3 that I used for a few years, then the G5n, and finally the B3n. Problem I had with the MS-60B was that I couldn't get my active basses to play nice at the front end input, and it would distort badly no matter how clean I would set the pedal. That, combined with the live switching limitations had me flipping the MS-60B and getting the B3 at my first opportunity, and the B3 never gave me this same problem. My impressions overall of the B3n (and G3n/G5n) is that overall, across the board, the provided amp models, cab sims, and effects have all benefited (to whatever extent ranging from a little to a LOT) from the new algorithms. I think the "n" series, from a sound standpoint, is quite a step up from the MS60B and B3.

The best thing about the B1on is the price. There's nothing that can touch it for the money. It is using ZOOM's last - NOT most recent - generation of modeling algorithms. Though it is very compact and a tremendous value for the money (I've got the B1Xon), the newer B3n sounds a whole lot better in general, but especially in the amp modeling and drive categories. Compressors are fine, but I agree that if you have a fave dedicated hardware compressor, the Zoom comp models might take a bit of tweaking to get close...or you may not like them at all. For the cheap price, the B1on is worth a try and if you don't like it, it's still great to have lying around as a backup or practice unit (it can be powered via USB brick)...built in rhythm machine, looper, tuner, etc.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1505457121' post='3371978'] Cheers jimfist and as our (technically non!) resident B3/B3n expert (well certainly a lot more expert so than me!) thanks for sharing that. What are your thoughts on the envelope filters in both the B3 and B3n - any improvement in the B3n? And, if so, which of the B3n filter effects / patches do you find yourself using most ? [/quote] That's a tough one for me. I've never really been much for using anything other than fairly basic envelope filters, and I'd use the effect hardly ever. To that end, the limited number of envelope filters work fine. However, I am a bigger fan of the blending in a touch of auto bass wah (BassA-Wah) with some mild overdrive to give the tone some movement, depending on how hard I dig in with my playing. With a lighter touch, the damped wah effect adds a hint of low growl, and when I dig in it gets more aggressive and abrasive. I seem to be able to get more mileage out of this as a more subtle filter effect. IMO, there could be more envelope filters, and maybe ZOOM eventually offers more for upload. I guess, though, that you could also throw in the Synth effects into the equation as they can certainly also do envelope synth effects, which can be blended with the dry tone to good effect. For this, the Z-Syn is very cool. Apologies. Wish I could be of more help.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1504979126' post='3368693'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]In some ways the B3n seems to be a sideways evolution:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The B3 has 111 effects to the B3n's 80. Processor and A/D & D/A conversion specs appear to be the same. The biggest advantage of the n being[i][u][b] 5 simultaneous effects[/b][/u][/i] over the B3's 3. Many of the n's patches also look to be limited to 4 editable parameters per effect whereas the B3 offers many effects with more options to configure.[/font][/color] [/quote] For the record, the B3n will allow for UP TO 7 fx slots to be used in a patch, pending CPU limits. If you're using just standard effects, you can usually get all 7 slots occupied. Reverbs, amp models, and some dirt pedals can be hogs for memory. The effects/models in the B3n can either be SINGLE slot items with 4 parameters, or DOUBLE slot items with 8 parameters. Amp models are double slot entities with 8 parameters, as are some of the drive pedals (B7k and Sans Amp BDDI emulations) and special effects. Zoom also releases new amp, cab and fx models on a regular basis (though sort of slow in coming at the moment for the B3n - the G3n/G5n have had a TON of added items since their inception). Thus, the initial release may seem slim vs. the oder B3, but one would think that Zoom is far from finished adding items to the B3n since the amount of cpu dedicated to storing models is somewhere around 60% with lots of room to grow. They still haven't added any GK stuff yet, which you'd have to believe is in the works, knowing Zoom's history. Zoom clearly concentrated on improving the quality of the amp, cab, and drive algorithms with a ground-up re-coding of all their modeling, and IMHO they are all improved - especially the drives, amp & cab sims. Zoom also wanted to improve switching and navigating the pedal, and they've done this. For my taste, even this is a bit of a limited improvement, but it is certainly a huge leap forward vs. the B3 switching tap dance (drove me nuts....hated it). you can read more spec info for yourselves via download manuals from this page link: [url="https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/guitar-bass-effects/bass/b3n-multi-effects-processor#downloads"]https://www.zoom.co....essor#downloads[/url]

cool. One thing about the Zoom is that for effects placed before the looper, once you've printed something in the loop and pulled it out of record mode, you can manually change effect type and settings. If you have the luxury of home use mostly, you'll have time to change effects if you know what you want. Not sure how the GT-1B implements the looper, so you may be able to do the same thing with it. Neither one has USB recording, though. You'd have to kick up to the G5n guitar processer, which isn't half bad for bass. I've gigged it for quite a while. It doesn't have the same cool bass goodies as the B3n, though (Darkglass sims).

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1500829763' post='3340450'] B3n users, I've been looking at the Boss GT-1B but being put off a little by the restriction on chain order and effect slots. So having looked at the Zoom B3n effect processing chart, I'm realising that the initially enticing seven slot functionality might be limited by the modelling/effects I want to use. For example, in my imaginary signal chain: Darkglass preamp 20% of processing, compressor 10%, modulation 10%, defret 7%, delay 6%, HD reverb 25% then into the looper 10%. This is without cab simulation. So it looks do-able but I just wondered if any B3n users could comment on the effect chain restrictions and processing limit. Is it a consideration or rarely encountered? Please comment. [/quote] Your problem in this scenario isn't cpu limitations, but SLOT limitations. The Dark Pre takes up 2 slots, not 1, so your ideal scenario would take up 8 slots, not 7. And you'd have to use one of the single slot Loopers, too. You'd could opt for the less flexible Dark OD to keep it at the max of 7 slots occupied. By my math: Dark OD: 21% 160 comp: 13% (mod) Ba Detune: 12% defret: 7% Delay: 5% HD Hall: 26% Mono/Stereo Looper: 10% ----------------------total: 94% There's no doubt that the GT-1B packs a lot of features into their pedal, and between it and the Zoom B3n, you really can't go wrong. But the primary difference as I see it is which work flow you prefer for your primary usage. The GT-1B has advantages with deeper parameters and comprehensive software editor (not yet available), as well as the established reputation Boss has with their effects. Stand-alone, the GT-1B might be limited for switching sounds and patches in performance, depending on how much versatility you need. The B3n seems better suited to those who want the simplicity of WYSIWYG virtual pedals (no deep editing and menu diving), more footswitches for flexibility in navigating the pedal in performance, and some impressive amp, cab, and drive modeling which has been improved compared to the B3n. It does have the cpu limitations, and the selection of amps/cabs/fx is still developing while Zoom releases new items every so often. Having owned a B3 and now a B3n, I've been partial to Zoom. The B3n has helped solve a lot of the live navigation issues that the B3 had with just 3 buttons, and I do most of my work in live performance groups. If you don't mind adding a couple of footswitches to the GT-1B, you could get a lot more flexibility, but of course you're carrying more stuff and increasing your pedal footprint. Both are good choices IMO for the coin. Just different, and depend on what is most important to you.

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1499875231' post='3334255'] Do people buy this sort of thing? Its the first time ive seen something like this for sale. Just wondering who buys it when there are other places that have free patches. [/quote] Some people do buy these packs. Choptones has built up a nice little niche creating sounds for modelers of all types. Anyone who likes what they hear from their modeler but is struggling to get over the hump will be tempted to give commercially produced presets a shot. Not all of these commercial packs hit a home run, but some are very good and these guys really seem to know what they're doing. I've never personally cared much for preset tones made by others, but not everyone is the same. Spending a little money on something that might get you quickly to a really good place is money well spent....better than time mis-spent.

good stuff from Choptones: [color=#EEEEEE][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][url="http://shop.choptones.net/zoom-b3n-bass-essentials-vol1"]http://shop.choptone...essentials-vol1[/url][/font][/color] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ1jfey-M5o"]https://www.youtube....h?v=PJ1jfey-M5o[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfAS_RJ1icE"]https://www.youtube....h?v=QfAS_RJ1icE[/url]

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1499277249' post='3330503'] Think a few people have been waiting for this... a first comparison with the Zoom B3: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcnF4tub84U"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qcnF4tub84U[/url] [/quote] Yes, and there should also be comparisons to the newer B3n, hopefully, especially since the quality of the amps, cabs and drive stomp emulations is much improved compared to the B3 IMHO...not to mention the B3n having improved footswitch navigation.