jimfist

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1498382813' post='3324164'] How does the GT-1B stack up against the Zoom B3n both in terms of effect sims AND usability (scrolling between patches, having easy access to banks of patches)? Seems to me that is where the head to head is in terms of price point. I'm guessing that the GT-1B may just edge it over the Zoom on effect sims but the B3n easily win in terms of being a user-friendly live pedal. [/quote] I agree. The B3n and the GT-1B have totally different work flow/usage designs, where ZOOM seems more suited to simplicity of "hands-on" editing on the unit and better switching layout for performance, while BOSS has the edge in features "under the hood" and a really slick software editor. Both nice choices if you ask me, especially at the price point. Still seems like nobody is willing to touch the next level of mid-priced bass modelers for some reason. =(

+1

[quote name='Elfrasho' timestamp='1494504395' post='3296541'] Personally... if using effects then I'd say it's important. Although not all preamps are the same. Fuzz and distortion can sound harsh. I've mainly stuck to digital (ie multifx) preamp for this reason as they tend tobyqve more control over how much 'cab SIM ' is comibg through. [/quote] Cabinet simulation is nothing more than EQ and filtering that resembles a bass speaker cabinet, either generally (using filters and parametric EQ) or specifically (using digital cabinet Impulse Responses). If you were to analyze the EQ curve of a mic'd bass cab, you'd see that there are usually many, many EQ notches and some complexity that is difficult to capture using traditional EQ...but...you can get close if you know what you're trying to EQ. However, I'm of the opinion that it is the complexity of the EQ response curve that gives a mic'd cabinet its unique character. Whether either one is better than the other is purely subjective.

Haven't seen anything new since the Acoustic Bass amp & cab, and a couple other things. Zoom needs to get us a GK800RB amp model and a Hartke aluminum 4x10!! None of the amps and cabs from the Guitar pedals (G5n/G3n) are shared with the B3n and vice versa. Although all the units have their own discrete firmware, Zoom has made it so that some of the effects and other processors exist on all 3 pedal platforms.

[quote name='paul_backskin' timestamp='1492000657' post='3277053'] Yeah. I know it would be more expensive, but if they made another model with a DI out, and perhaps a routing option to have the amp/cab sims routed to the DI only, zoom would be onto a hands down winner. [/quote] Absolutely. I'd pay the extra cash for those features, no doubt. Evidently, ZOOM marketing research must disagree and thinks they'd have much more difficulty with profitable returns on such a pedal. So close....yet so far.

[quote name='paul_backskin' timestamp='1491992307' post='3276974'] I received one this morning. I set up the darkglass B7K effect into just the SVT 8x10 and it sounded much the same as the demo videos for the B3/7k for dialling in a metal tone. Very impressed. Such a shame no Di out on it though. [/quote] Yes, the general feeling is that the XLR was a nice feature that will be missed on the B3n. It is too bad that the sacrifice for having upgraded modeling and more switches is no XLR, no USB audio. The only consolation to the XLR dilemma is that most bassists already own a direct box, or usually have one provided to them. There are also a few micro-DI pedal boxes available, if floor space is an issue. I've avoided this problem by taking the (switched) PRE preamp XLR out from my GK head to send to FOH. In fact, with the original B3, I found the XLR connector to be a little dodgy, and not really a high quality chassis connector that didn't lock the connection into place. I'd rather have an XLR than not, but if ZOOM couldn't figure out a way to put a quality jack on the unit, I'd rather they just leave it off so I can provide a worthy DI of my own.

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1491930831' post='3276599'] Thanks for the clips Jim! I'd be interested to hear the envelope filters, the Z-Tron from the previous generation was excellent but I wasn't a fan of the rest. I had assumed they would use the same old models from before but if you say the drives have improved then maybe the others have too! [/quote] I'm with you re: the Z-Tron. I think the tracking on the B3n is improved vs. the B3 for octaves, synths, pitch shifters. I've got them side by side, and that will be next up for some demo recordings....when time allows. Will be interesting to see whether there is enough of a discrepancy between the two units to be obvious on a recording.

The new series of ZOOM products (the G5n, G3n, B3n) are designed to function just like individual stomp pedals (3 available at once on the B3n, and up to 7 total by scrolling left and right across the virtual signal chain). They're really easy to tweak in live performance just as you describe: (in STOMP mode) reach down, grab the knob for the parameter you want to tweak, and done. In stompbox mode, there is no menu-diving, buried parameters, or multiple pages to navigate when you have the 3 "virtual pedals" showing on the multiple screens. Now that they've got the B3k/B7k modeled along with some other new drives and improvements, it makes the B3n a real consideration, even if you only find just a few effects that really float your boat. I think this pedal is going to surprise a lot of people, honestly, even if it is just for a couple of effects. JMHO.

Here's another one, demo of the Acoustic 370 amp model with 18" cab sim. All sounds from the B3n into Audacity as my DAW, using my Zoom B3 (bypassed) as the USB audio I/O. [url="https://soundcloud.com/jimfist/sets/zoom-b3n-acoustic-amp-sim-ac-370"]https://soundcloud.c...-amp-sim-ac-370[/url]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1491835723' post='3275737'] Hey jimfist - thanks for sharing those demos. They sound pretty good! My B3n arrived this morning and am looking forward to getting to know it over the coming days... [/quote] Thanks! I'm hoping to do more demos of the amp models and effects, time allowing. I think the sonic improvements (esp. the drives and cab sims) are worth it, even though there's no XLR or USB audio. Still a great value.

Here's some demo stuff I did over the weekend. Primarily focuses on the SVT amp/cab comparison between the B3 and B3n (I was able to get them to sound pretty close, although the settings are quite different, and the B3n SVT amp/cab have a TON more flexibility for tone shaping), and to demo the Darkglass OD (B3k) and Darkglass PRE (B7k). The sounds may or may not be your cup of tea (I'm into driven sounds, and favorite bands from the 1990s like TOOL, AIC, RHCP, etc.). [url="https://soundcloud.com/jimfist/sets/zoom-b3nb3-svt_darkglass-tests"]https://soundcloud.c...darkglass-tests[/url] [couldn't figure out how to embed the Soundcloud tracks...anyone help me here?]

The B3n has finally landed here in the USA and orders are being shipped (mine included ). I'd expect you'll start to see more reviews in the next days and weeks to come.

@BigRedX My thoughts exactly! Thanks for saving the forum another long-windbag post from me. 😉 LOL

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1489418899' post='3256739'] Is there anywhere I can try any of the Fractal units in the UK? [/quote] Have you contacted anyone via the G66eu website? [url="https://www.g66.eu/en"]https://www.g66.eu/en[/url] They are the European market distribution point for Fractal Audio gear. They can give you a lot of information on the AX8 and AxeFxII, and perhaps hook you up with a demo from someone who is in your region.

Although Fractal Audio has a handful of Bass Amp models and stock Bass Cab sims (IRs), they really have paid token interest indulging bassists with their offerings. This is not to say that the AX8/AxeFxII are not worthy units, but clearly they are top shelf for guitarists primarily. Bassists can certainly be plenty happy with an AX8, but you may need to do a little tweaking and hand-crafting to get specifically what you want. Ditto for the Helix, although it does have more to offer for bass "stuff" than the AX8 (bass amp models). Both are great pieces of gear with different specific features and work flow. Really, both are quality pieces of gear...can't go wrong either way. Unfortunate that the bassist community doesn't really have a specific targeted device at the high end of the modeler/multi-fx category. Certainly, the Helix, AX8/AxeFxII/Kemper are used by bassists for amp/cab modeling and effects, but otherwise the selections for dynamics, EQ, and special effects are not specifically tailored for bass. Even a company with deep pockets like ZOOM has openly admitted that they've not indulged bassists to any lengthy degree due to the lack of market share (when queried about why then have only released a B3n version, and not a B5n for their new series of pedals). That being the case, unless someone really wants to roll the dice and make this their mission, finances be damned, I doubt we'll see much in the way of a modeler/multi-fx pedal with high level, robust features, targeted at bassists. Thus, bassists who want to get into modeling technology for bass have to either spend a lot of money for excellent products that have bass as a secondary consideration, or otherwise be left with the few bass-specific modeler/multi-fx that are on the low-low/mid price range, with limited features and quality reflected. I never thought I'd be so anxious and excited for ZOOM's bass pedals after having owned the AxeFx Ultra, AxeFxII, and Atomic Amplifire...but...for bass, specifically, Zoom is the only one getting it done, for better or worse. Apologies for the OT rant. ;-)

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488824214' post='3252128'] Again thank you for your comments jimfist. I guess I've not been particularly looking out for bass amp emulation - been content with the relatively clean palate that my Markbass offers (plus VPF mid scoop) at gigs as the starting point, but this perhaps REMOVES a key benefit of the B3n over the G5n from what you are saying? For me the key effects / functions I'm looking for are: Octave with good tracking down, Tremolo, Compressor, Tuner, Synth and Distortion. I'm guessing / hoping (!) the B3n does these all reasonably well and the three pedal set up allows them to be easily accessed? [/quote] Cool. If you're not expecting to use amp modeling and cab sims, then you should be in good shape. I think that the B3n is ideally implemented in a few ways for performance: [list] [*]amp/cab modeling (these eat up 3 of the 7 possible available slots) with very limited effect/tone changes in Stompbox mode [*]used in patch/preset (Memory) mode when you need to initiate a lot of simultaneous changes in effects or tones [*]used in Stompbox mode without amp/cab simulations to take advantage of all 7 fx slots, as a front-end virtual stompbox [/list]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488800917' post='3251807'] Hey Jimfist thanks once more for that very thought through response. My takeaway from your response is that the B3n as a dedicated bass multi FX is the one I should be going for, if I am getting just one multi FX pedal, given price point and dedicated targeting of bass rather than guitar. [/quote] The G5n will give you more flexibility for the extra cost (USB audio I/O, expression pedal built-in, etc.) but whether it suits anyone's needs adequately as an all-in-one bass processor is a terribly subjective thing. It works for me, but I do miss the dedicated bass amp models, especially the SVT, which has always been my "go-to" bass amp model. I'd say that the primary advantage of the B3n is that it is targeted specifically at bassists, and of course, it costs less. For bassists, that's quite an important difference, but operationally, and in terms of overall features and setting aside the fact it is a guitar-based unit, the G5n is a much more appealing physical platform. This is why I'm lamenting ZOOM's decision to NOT offer a B5n version. The B3n alone would only work for me in a limited capacity, and not for all gigs. But that's just me. ;-)

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488751772' post='3251571'] Hey Jimfist that is massively helpful and thanks very much for taking the time to share that. Currently I have a Zoom MS60B and was thinking of replacing it with the Zoom B3n (£170). Sounds like from what you are saying, if I am going for only one multi FX pedal I should actually be thinking of the Zoom g5n (£250), even though the g5n is a guitar rather than bass focussed pedal? Have you also tried out the Line 6 Pod HD500X (£400)? If so, how does that compare to the Zoom g5n? [/quote] I like that the G5n is a smaller footprint than the Pod HD, and the B3n even smaller, but more importantly that I can choose to use one or the other, or both, depending on my needs (stage size, tone/fx demands). Certainly the HD is a great value for the money these days, and this line of ZOOM products can't touch it in terms of programmability, physical I/O, MIDI implementation, contollers, etc. If those were great concerns for me then I'd bypass the HD series altogether and either look at the Helix or Fractal Audio FX8 or AX8 (I'm also an AxeFXII owner). Sonically, I'd say the guitar amp/cab models in the G5n are easily on par with the HD, but some may argue with that (all subjective). The G5n models are definitely improved from the G3/G5 Zoom modelers IMHO. The G5n is pure serial signal path, but allows for up to 9 effects blocks (amp models eat up TWO unit/slots, though), and is dead simple to use. It is really easy to tweak live (important for me), and you can master the logic to creating patches with very little diving into the manual. The switching on the G5n is improved (dedicated tap tempo and tuner), though in STOMPBOX mode, you need to use L/R scroll buttons that allow you to fully navigate across the signal chain. This isn't a big deal for me as it's easy enough to do, even with my two left feet. In MEMORY (Preset) mode, you have 4 patches available per bank, with dedicated Bank UP/Down buttons. Though I've enjoyed the G5n for bass, I stop short of offering up the sentiment that any bassist would be happy with it. The fact that it CAN be used for bass doesn't necessarily mean that you'll really love it for bass. We were hoping that the bass amp/cab models from the B3n would also be made available in the G5n/G3n, but they will not, understandably so. And no "B5n" version is coming. Where some may get stuck is the fact that everything in the G5n is sort of "tuned" to apply to 6string guitar, rather than bass. Depending on the effect or process, this may or may not matter as there is a broad enough range across these effects to allow for adjustment that handles bass needs well enough. However, things like the Graphic EQ, Wah pedals, Drives, Compressors, pitch shifters, etc. might not be your cup of tea for bass, but are spot-on for guitar. Also, guitarists don't lean on the all-important "MIX/BLEND" feature that exists on most of the B3/B3n bass effects. In closing, here is a signal flow of my larger pedalboard setup, used when I want everything at my disposal. I've added the Iron Ether Divaricator to this setup, which acts as a bass frequency preservation device, using a variable crossover and remixer (hi/low levels) so that only the hi freqs above the crossover point get sent to the G5n front-end virtual stompboxes. Low end below x-over freq stays intact, both low and high get re-mixed for balance and then it all gets sent to the B3 (soon to be B3n) for amp/cab modeling and final compression/limiting. This is sent to my GK head where it goes to FOH via the XLR DI output (describe previously). Thus, the IE Divaricator helps the G5n "see" a limited (low end) frequency range that is closer to that of a guitar, and so the effects tend to behave better for bass this way. YMMV. ;-)

I'll do my best to keep this brief....but afraid it won't be (apologies) I own and have gigged the B3 for quite a few years, and though I appreciate the feature set dedicated to bassists, there are two things that I could never get past: the limited 3 button footswitch design, and the fact that the modeled tones, though respectable for live use, seem to my ears to be lacking in depth and definition compared to the better (more expensive) modelers I own or have owned. No knock really on the B3...fantastic at its price point. When the G5n guitar processor was introduced last year, I took a chance on it. The footprint is significantly larger than the B3, but not terribly huge, and well worth it considering how much more functionality/switching you get on the G5n. The big downside is that the G5n isn't geared specifically toward bassists, as is the new B3n (which I will own). I've punted, but been quite pleased using the HiWatt amp/cab sims for bass. Not a bad tone/vibe for bass at all, though quite midrange present. Anyone who is pre-disposed to consider the new "n" series of pedal products to simply be an upgrade built upon what was established with the B3/B1Xon and the G5/G3 may or may not be thrilled with these new pedals. They really are conceived to be different conceptually, once you get beyond the obvious similarities. The "n" series is all about the upgrade in quality of the modeling across the board, and the algorithms have been re-worked from the ground up...all about speed and simplicity (WYSIWYG)...all about added capacity having up to 7 effect slots. Having had time programming guitar sounds on the AxeFxII, I can vouch for the quality of the G5n guitar modeling and cab sims. Absolutely different leagues no doubt, but I've heard worse amp models in more expensive pieces of gear. Again, at this price point, G5n models are not too shabby, and (at least to my ears) contain more depth and detail in the amps, cabs, and drives compared to previous iterations and other modelers in the low price range. Yes, they've ditched the XLR. They've also changed the "global" feature of the Looper and Rhythm modules. Instead, now, each is considered an insert effect within a patch, so you can't change patches with the looper/rhythm modules running and have them continue in the fashion they do with the B3. However, since you have a total of 7 slots maximum, you still have 5 slots left for "stomp" mode effects. Little consolation to Looper fans, I'm sure. I suggest that you consider the B3n for the improvements in quality of the amp/cab/fx models, for the extra switches, and the extra fx slots. If you're wildly happy with the B3 and also rely on its built-in XLR, then the trade-off in sound quality and extra fx slots may not be worth it to you. Speaking for myself, I will generally only be using the B3n for its Amp/Cab simulation and tonal/dynamic post-processing, and I'm excited to hear what the new amp algorithms sound like, as well as what ZOOM will be offering for future (downloadable) amps/cabs/fx. For many gigs, it will be used in conjunction with my G5n (which will provide the stomp effects...up to 9) when I need the flexibility of sounds. For simpler gigs which require little in the way of changing sounds and effects, I'll be using the B3n by itself. My road-worn B3 will be designated for home and backup duty. A note about the XLR (or lack thereof) and how I personally am not bothered by this...I use only Full-Range cabinets for stage, thus my tones are fully baked with amp/cab modeling, and crafted to suit the needs of FOH. To account for stage acoustics, I run my pedals into the front end of a GK 1001RBII, and pull my FOH DI feed from its DI output, set to take the signal PRE the GK's preamp. I then use the tone controls on the GK to tailor the tone to my liking according to the needs of the stage, independent of the FOH feed. Over the years, this is what I've found to work best for me. A simple power amp with no tone capabilities means you only get "volume up" or "volume down", which is a bit stifling, especially when all you want to do is lop a few dB off of the high or low end bands, for example. Again, sorry for the long post.

[url="http://www.g66.eu"]http://www.g66.eu[/url] is the European distributor for the AxeFxII. I believe there is a 15 day trial period with full refund if returned (not including shipping). The Fractal Audio Systems forum is also very generous with their time and advice, and many are willing to have a meet and greet to demo the unit for anyone who may be a prospective buyer if you live within a relatively short traveling distance. No lie that the AxeFxII can be a complex beast if you want to push its limits. But it doesn't need to be difficult to get great tones out of it for bass without a lot of muss and fuss. @ Bass_Juice: let me know if you have any questions or need some pointers and I'll be glad to help out. Interested to hear what you have to say.

First post here on Basschat! Glad to be part of the online community here. As for the AxeFxII and Fractal Audio Systems support, I'm wondering, [b]Dood[/b], if you care to elaborate on what it was that turned you off to the AxeFxII and FAS? In Europe, G66 is their distributor, and both they and FAS are generally regarded to have an excellent reputation with respect to customer service. I'm curious as to what could have transpired that sent you away from them without trying the AxeFx. I believe I'm correct in saying that Fractal Audio offers a "no questions asked" return policy with a 15 day evaluation window in order to determine whether it is a keeper or not. I also believe that FAS does not offer any "rock star" endorsement deals - presumably, everyone on their endorsing artist list pays for their products. At least, IIRC the company's owner is on record somewhere saying this. As for the AxeFxII itself, I've been an owner of both the (now discontinued) AxeFx Ultra and the AxeFxII (version 1) for about 4 years, and I've found it to be an excellent processor for guitar, bass, and just about anything else that you'd want to plug into it. It's a true one-of-a-kind pro-level processor that is incredibly flexible (some get mired up in that flexibility and complexity, but it doesn't have to be that way if you prefer not to go there) and top notch sonically. I'd like to see more bassists consider the AxeFx, especially if you have the need for a bit more than the typical bassist. It's not for everyone, certainly, but if you wear a lot of hats musically, and need something that can keep up well with those varied needs, then the AxeFx is a great way to go. My subsequent gear purge paid for the AxeFx outright, plus any other (speaker system) gear I needed to replace that which was sold...and with money left in my pocket to spare. Sorry for the long first post! Thanks ~ Jim