jimfist

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1505457121' post='3371978'] Cheers jimfist and as our (technically non!) resident B3/B3n expert (well certainly a lot more expert so than me!) thanks for sharing that. What are your thoughts on the envelope filters in both the B3 and B3n - any improvement in the B3n? And, if so, which of the B3n filter effects / patches do you find yourself using most ? [/quote] That's a tough one for me. I've never really been much for using anything other than fairly basic envelope filters, and I'd use the effect hardly ever. To that end, the limited number of envelope filters work fine. However, I am a bigger fan of the blending in a touch of auto bass wah (BassA-Wah) with some mild overdrive to give the tone some movement, depending on how hard I dig in with my playing. With a lighter touch, the damped wah effect adds a hint of low growl, and when I dig in it gets more aggressive and abrasive. I seem to be able to get more mileage out of this as a more subtle filter effect. IMO, there could be more envelope filters, and maybe ZOOM eventually offers more for upload. I guess, though, that you could also throw in the Synth effects into the equation as they can certainly also do envelope synth effects, which can be blended with the dry tone to good effect. For this, the Z-Syn is very cool. Apologies. Wish I could be of more help.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1504979126' post='3368693'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]In some ways the B3n seems to be a sideways evolution:[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]The B3 has 111 effects to the B3n's 80. Processor and A/D & D/A conversion specs appear to be the same. The biggest advantage of the n being[i][u][b] 5 simultaneous effects[/b][/u][/i] over the B3's 3. Many of the n's patches also look to be limited to 4 editable parameters per effect whereas the B3 offers many effects with more options to configure.[/font][/color] [/quote] For the record, the B3n will allow for UP TO 7 fx slots to be used in a patch, pending CPU limits. If you're using just standard effects, you can usually get all 7 slots occupied. Reverbs, amp models, and some dirt pedals can be hogs for memory. The effects/models in the B3n can either be SINGLE slot items with 4 parameters, or DOUBLE slot items with 8 parameters. Amp models are double slot entities with 8 parameters, as are some of the drive pedals (B7k and Sans Amp BDDI emulations) and special effects. Zoom also releases new amp, cab and fx models on a regular basis (though sort of slow in coming at the moment for the B3n - the G3n/G5n have had a TON of added items since their inception). Thus, the initial release may seem slim vs. the oder B3, but one would think that Zoom is far from finished adding items to the B3n since the amount of cpu dedicated to storing models is somewhere around 60% with lots of room to grow. They still haven't added any GK stuff yet, which you'd have to believe is in the works, knowing Zoom's history. Zoom clearly concentrated on improving the quality of the amp, cab, and drive algorithms with a ground-up re-coding of all their modeling, and IMHO they are all improved - especially the drives, amp & cab sims. Zoom also wanted to improve switching and navigating the pedal, and they've done this. For my taste, even this is a bit of a limited improvement, but it is certainly a huge leap forward vs. the B3 switching tap dance (drove me nuts....hated it). you can read more spec info for yourselves via download manuals from this page link: [url="https://www.zoom.co.jp/products/guitar-bass-effects/bass/b3n-multi-effects-processor#downloads"]https://www.zoom.co....essor#downloads[/url]

cool. One thing about the Zoom is that for effects placed before the looper, once you've printed something in the loop and pulled it out of record mode, you can manually change effect type and settings. If you have the luxury of home use mostly, you'll have time to change effects if you know what you want. Not sure how the GT-1B implements the looper, so you may be able to do the same thing with it. Neither one has USB recording, though. You'd have to kick up to the G5n guitar processer, which isn't half bad for bass. I've gigged it for quite a while. It doesn't have the same cool bass goodies as the B3n, though (Darkglass sims).

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1500829763' post='3340450'] B3n users, I've been looking at the Boss GT-1B but being put off a little by the restriction on chain order and effect slots. So having looked at the Zoom B3n effect processing chart, I'm realising that the initially enticing seven slot functionality might be limited by the modelling/effects I want to use. For example, in my imaginary signal chain: Darkglass preamp 20% of processing, compressor 10%, modulation 10%, defret 7%, delay 6%, HD reverb 25% then into the looper 10%. This is without cab simulation. So it looks do-able but I just wondered if any B3n users could comment on the effect chain restrictions and processing limit. Is it a consideration or rarely encountered? Please comment. [/quote] Your problem in this scenario isn't cpu limitations, but SLOT limitations. The Dark Pre takes up 2 slots, not 1, so your ideal scenario would take up 8 slots, not 7. And you'd have to use one of the single slot Loopers, too. You'd could opt for the less flexible Dark OD to keep it at the max of 7 slots occupied. By my math: Dark OD: 21% 160 comp: 13% (mod) Ba Detune: 12% defret: 7% Delay: 5% HD Hall: 26% Mono/Stereo Looper: 10% ----------------------total: 94% There's no doubt that the GT-1B packs a lot of features into their pedal, and between it and the Zoom B3n, you really can't go wrong. But the primary difference as I see it is which work flow you prefer for your primary usage. The GT-1B has advantages with deeper parameters and comprehensive software editor (not yet available), as well as the established reputation Boss has with their effects. Stand-alone, the GT-1B might be limited for switching sounds and patches in performance, depending on how much versatility you need. The B3n seems better suited to those who want the simplicity of WYSIWYG virtual pedals (no deep editing and menu diving), more footswitches for flexibility in navigating the pedal in performance, and some impressive amp, cab, and drive modeling which has been improved compared to the B3n. It does have the cpu limitations, and the selection of amps/cabs/fx is still developing while Zoom releases new items every so often. Having owned a B3 and now a B3n, I've been partial to Zoom. The B3n has helped solve a lot of the live navigation issues that the B3 had with just 3 buttons, and I do most of my work in live performance groups. If you don't mind adding a couple of footswitches to the GT-1B, you could get a lot more flexibility, but of course you're carrying more stuff and increasing your pedal footprint. Both are good choices IMO for the coin. Just different, and depend on what is most important to you.

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1499875231' post='3334255'] Do people buy this sort of thing? Its the first time ive seen something like this for sale. Just wondering who buys it when there are other places that have free patches. [/quote] Some people do buy these packs. Choptones has built up a nice little niche creating sounds for modelers of all types. Anyone who likes what they hear from their modeler but is struggling to get over the hump will be tempted to give commercially produced presets a shot. Not all of these commercial packs hit a home run, but some are very good and these guys really seem to know what they're doing. I've never personally cared much for preset tones made by others, but not everyone is the same. Spending a little money on something that might get you quickly to a really good place is money well spent....better than time mis-spent.

good stuff from Choptones: [color=#EEEEEE][font=Verdana, Arial, sans-serif][url="http://shop.choptones.net/zoom-b3n-bass-essentials-vol1"]http://shop.choptone...essentials-vol1[/url][/font][/color] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ1jfey-M5o"]https://www.youtube....h?v=PJ1jfey-M5o[/url] [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfAS_RJ1icE"]https://www.youtube....h?v=QfAS_RJ1icE[/url]

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1499277249' post='3330503'] Think a few people have been waiting for this... a first comparison with the Zoom B3: [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcnF4tub84U"]https://www.youtube....h?v=qcnF4tub84U[/url] [/quote] Yes, and there should also be comparisons to the newer B3n, hopefully, especially since the quality of the amps, cabs and drive stomp emulations is much improved compared to the B3 IMHO...not to mention the B3n having improved footswitch navigation.

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1498382813' post='3324164'] How does the GT-1B stack up against the Zoom B3n both in terms of effect sims AND usability (scrolling between patches, having easy access to banks of patches)? Seems to me that is where the head to head is in terms of price point. I'm guessing that the GT-1B may just edge it over the Zoom on effect sims but the B3n easily win in terms of being a user-friendly live pedal. [/quote] I agree. The B3n and the GT-1B have totally different work flow/usage designs, where ZOOM seems more suited to simplicity of "hands-on" editing on the unit and better switching layout for performance, while BOSS has the edge in features "under the hood" and a really slick software editor. Both nice choices if you ask me, especially at the price point. Still seems like nobody is willing to touch the next level of mid-priced bass modelers for some reason. =(

+1

[quote name='Elfrasho' timestamp='1494504395' post='3296541'] Personally... if using effects then I'd say it's important. Although not all preamps are the same. Fuzz and distortion can sound harsh. I've mainly stuck to digital (ie multifx) preamp for this reason as they tend tobyqve more control over how much 'cab SIM ' is comibg through. [/quote] Cabinet simulation is nothing more than EQ and filtering that resembles a bass speaker cabinet, either generally (using filters and parametric EQ) or specifically (using digital cabinet Impulse Responses). If you were to analyze the EQ curve of a mic'd bass cab, you'd see that there are usually many, many EQ notches and some complexity that is difficult to capture using traditional EQ...but...you can get close if you know what you're trying to EQ. However, I'm of the opinion that it is the complexity of the EQ response curve that gives a mic'd cabinet its unique character. Whether either one is better than the other is purely subjective.

Haven't seen anything new since the Acoustic Bass amp & cab, and a couple other things. Zoom needs to get us a GK800RB amp model and a Hartke aluminum 4x10!! None of the amps and cabs from the Guitar pedals (G5n/G3n) are shared with the B3n and vice versa. Although all the units have their own discrete firmware, Zoom has made it so that some of the effects and other processors exist on all 3 pedal platforms.

[quote name='paul_backskin' timestamp='1492000657' post='3277053'] Yeah. I know it would be more expensive, but if they made another model with a DI out, and perhaps a routing option to have the amp/cab sims routed to the DI only, zoom would be onto a hands down winner. [/quote] Absolutely. I'd pay the extra cash for those features, no doubt. Evidently, ZOOM marketing research must disagree and thinks they'd have much more difficulty with profitable returns on such a pedal. So close....yet so far.

[quote name='paul_backskin' timestamp='1491992307' post='3276974'] I received one this morning. I set up the darkglass B7K effect into just the SVT 8x10 and it sounded much the same as the demo videos for the B3/7k for dialling in a metal tone. Very impressed. Such a shame no Di out on it though. [/quote] Yes, the general feeling is that the XLR was a nice feature that will be missed on the B3n. It is too bad that the sacrifice for having upgraded modeling and more switches is no XLR, no USB audio. The only consolation to the XLR dilemma is that most bassists already own a direct box, or usually have one provided to them. There are also a few micro-DI pedal boxes available, if floor space is an issue. I've avoided this problem by taking the (switched) PRE preamp XLR out from my GK head to send to FOH. In fact, with the original B3, I found the XLR connector to be a little dodgy, and not really a high quality chassis connector that didn't lock the connection into place. I'd rather have an XLR than not, but if ZOOM couldn't figure out a way to put a quality jack on the unit, I'd rather they just leave it off so I can provide a worthy DI of my own.

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1491930831' post='3276599'] Thanks for the clips Jim! I'd be interested to hear the envelope filters, the Z-Tron from the previous generation was excellent but I wasn't a fan of the rest. I had assumed they would use the same old models from before but if you say the drives have improved then maybe the others have too! [/quote] I'm with you re: the Z-Tron. I think the tracking on the B3n is improved vs. the B3 for octaves, synths, pitch shifters. I've got them side by side, and that will be next up for some demo recordings....when time allows. Will be interesting to see whether there is enough of a discrepancy between the two units to be obvious on a recording.

The new series of ZOOM products (the G5n, G3n, B3n) are designed to function just like individual stomp pedals (3 available at once on the B3n, and up to 7 total by scrolling left and right across the virtual signal chain). They're really easy to tweak in live performance just as you describe: (in STOMP mode) reach down, grab the knob for the parameter you want to tweak, and done. In stompbox mode, there is no menu-diving, buried parameters, or multiple pages to navigate when you have the 3 "virtual pedals" showing on the multiple screens. Now that they've got the B3k/B7k modeled along with some other new drives and improvements, it makes the B3n a real consideration, even if you only find just a few effects that really float your boat. I think this pedal is going to surprise a lot of people, honestly, even if it is just for a couple of effects. JMHO.

Here's another one, demo of the Acoustic 370 amp model with 18" cab sim. All sounds from the B3n into Audacity as my DAW, using my Zoom B3 (bypassed) as the USB audio I/O. [url="https://soundcloud.com/jimfist/sets/zoom-b3n-acoustic-amp-sim-ac-370"]https://soundcloud.c...-amp-sim-ac-370[/url]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1491835723' post='3275737'] Hey jimfist - thanks for sharing those demos. They sound pretty good! My B3n arrived this morning and am looking forward to getting to know it over the coming days... [/quote] Thanks! I'm hoping to do more demos of the amp models and effects, time allowing. I think the sonic improvements (esp. the drives and cab sims) are worth it, even though there's no XLR or USB audio. Still a great value.

Here's some demo stuff I did over the weekend. Primarily focuses on the SVT amp/cab comparison between the B3 and B3n (I was able to get them to sound pretty close, although the settings are quite different, and the B3n SVT amp/cab have a TON more flexibility for tone shaping), and to demo the Darkglass OD (B3k) and Darkglass PRE (B7k). The sounds may or may not be your cup of tea (I'm into driven sounds, and favorite bands from the 1990s like TOOL, AIC, RHCP, etc.). [url="https://soundcloud.com/jimfist/sets/zoom-b3nb3-svt_darkglass-tests"]https://soundcloud.c...darkglass-tests[/url] [couldn't figure out how to embed the Soundcloud tracks...anyone help me here?]

The B3n has finally landed here in the USA and orders are being shipped (mine included ). I'd expect you'll start to see more reviews in the next days and weeks to come.

@BigRedX My thoughts exactly! Thanks for saving the forum another long-windbag post from me. 😉 LOL

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1489418899' post='3256739'] Is there anywhere I can try any of the Fractal units in the UK? [/quote] Have you contacted anyone via the G66eu website? [url="https://www.g66.eu/en"]https://www.g66.eu/en[/url] They are the European market distribution point for Fractal Audio gear. They can give you a lot of information on the AX8 and AxeFxII, and perhaps hook you up with a demo from someone who is in your region.

Although Fractal Audio has a handful of Bass Amp models and stock Bass Cab sims (IRs), they really have paid token interest indulging bassists with their offerings. This is not to say that the AX8/AxeFxII are not worthy units, but clearly they are top shelf for guitarists primarily. Bassists can certainly be plenty happy with an AX8, but you may need to do a little tweaking and hand-crafting to get specifically what you want. Ditto for the Helix, although it does have more to offer for bass "stuff" than the AX8 (bass amp models). Both are great pieces of gear with different specific features and work flow. Really, both are quality pieces of gear...can't go wrong either way. Unfortunate that the bassist community doesn't really have a specific targeted device at the high end of the modeler/multi-fx category. Certainly, the Helix, AX8/AxeFxII/Kemper are used by bassists for amp/cab modeling and effects, but otherwise the selections for dynamics, EQ, and special effects are not specifically tailored for bass. Even a company with deep pockets like ZOOM has openly admitted that they've not indulged bassists to any lengthy degree due to the lack of market share (when queried about why then have only released a B3n version, and not a B5n for their new series of pedals). That being the case, unless someone really wants to roll the dice and make this their mission, finances be damned, I doubt we'll see much in the way of a modeler/multi-fx pedal with high level, robust features, targeted at bassists. Thus, bassists who want to get into modeling technology for bass have to either spend a lot of money for excellent products that have bass as a secondary consideration, or otherwise be left with the few bass-specific modeler/multi-fx that are on the low-low/mid price range, with limited features and quality reflected. I never thought I'd be so anxious and excited for ZOOM's bass pedals after having owned the AxeFx Ultra, AxeFxII, and Atomic Amplifire...but...for bass, specifically, Zoom is the only one getting it done, for better or worse. Apologies for the OT rant. ;-)

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488824214' post='3252128'] Again thank you for your comments jimfist. I guess I've not been particularly looking out for bass amp emulation - been content with the relatively clean palate that my Markbass offers (plus VPF mid scoop) at gigs as the starting point, but this perhaps REMOVES a key benefit of the B3n over the G5n from what you are saying? For me the key effects / functions I'm looking for are: Octave with good tracking down, Tremolo, Compressor, Tuner, Synth and Distortion. I'm guessing / hoping (!) the B3n does these all reasonably well and the three pedal set up allows them to be easily accessed? [/quote] Cool. If you're not expecting to use amp modeling and cab sims, then you should be in good shape. I think that the B3n is ideally implemented in a few ways for performance: [list] [*]amp/cab modeling (these eat up 3 of the 7 possible available slots) with very limited effect/tone changes in Stompbox mode [*]used in patch/preset (Memory) mode when you need to initiate a lot of simultaneous changes in effects or tones [*]used in Stompbox mode without amp/cab simulations to take advantage of all 7 fx slots, as a front-end virtual stompbox [/list]

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488800917' post='3251807'] Hey Jimfist thanks once more for that very thought through response. My takeaway from your response is that the B3n as a dedicated bass multi FX is the one I should be going for, if I am getting just one multi FX pedal, given price point and dedicated targeting of bass rather than guitar. [/quote] The G5n will give you more flexibility for the extra cost (USB audio I/O, expression pedal built-in, etc.) but whether it suits anyone's needs adequately as an all-in-one bass processor is a terribly subjective thing. It works for me, but I do miss the dedicated bass amp models, especially the SVT, which has always been my "go-to" bass amp model. I'd say that the primary advantage of the B3n is that it is targeted specifically at bassists, and of course, it costs less. For bassists, that's quite an important difference, but operationally, and in terms of overall features and setting aside the fact it is a guitar-based unit, the G5n is a much more appealing physical platform. This is why I'm lamenting ZOOM's decision to NOT offer a B5n version. The B3n alone would only work for me in a limited capacity, and not for all gigs. But that's just me. ;-)

[quote name='Al Krow' timestamp='1488751772' post='3251571'] Hey Jimfist that is massively helpful and thanks very much for taking the time to share that. Currently I have a Zoom MS60B and was thinking of replacing it with the Zoom B3n (£170). Sounds like from what you are saying, if I am going for only one multi FX pedal I should actually be thinking of the Zoom g5n (£250), even though the g5n is a guitar rather than bass focussed pedal? Have you also tried out the Line 6 Pod HD500X (£400)? If so, how does that compare to the Zoom g5n? [/quote] I like that the G5n is a smaller footprint than the Pod HD, and the B3n even smaller, but more importantly that I can choose to use one or the other, or both, depending on my needs (stage size, tone/fx demands). Certainly the HD is a great value for the money these days, and this line of ZOOM products can't touch it in terms of programmability, physical I/O, MIDI implementation, contollers, etc. If those were great concerns for me then I'd bypass the HD series altogether and either look at the Helix or Fractal Audio FX8 or AX8 (I'm also an AxeFXII owner). Sonically, I'd say the guitar amp/cab models in the G5n are easily on par with the HD, but some may argue with that (all subjective). The G5n models are definitely improved from the G3/G5 Zoom modelers IMHO. The G5n is pure serial signal path, but allows for up to 9 effects blocks (amp models eat up TWO unit/slots, though), and is dead simple to use. It is really easy to tweak live (important for me), and you can master the logic to creating patches with very little diving into the manual. The switching on the G5n is improved (dedicated tap tempo and tuner), though in STOMPBOX mode, you need to use L/R scroll buttons that allow you to fully navigate across the signal chain. This isn't a big deal for me as it's easy enough to do, even with my two left feet. In MEMORY (Preset) mode, you have 4 patches available per bank, with dedicated Bank UP/Down buttons. Though I've enjoyed the G5n for bass, I stop short of offering up the sentiment that any bassist would be happy with it. The fact that it CAN be used for bass doesn't necessarily mean that you'll really love it for bass. We were hoping that the bass amp/cab models from the B3n would also be made available in the G5n/G3n, but they will not, understandably so. And no "B5n" version is coming. Where some may get stuck is the fact that everything in the G5n is sort of "tuned" to apply to 6string guitar, rather than bass. Depending on the effect or process, this may or may not matter as there is a broad enough range across these effects to allow for adjustment that handles bass needs well enough. However, things like the Graphic EQ, Wah pedals, Drives, Compressors, pitch shifters, etc. might not be your cup of tea for bass, but are spot-on for guitar. Also, guitarists don't lean on the all-important "MIX/BLEND" feature that exists on most of the B3/B3n bass effects. In closing, here is a signal flow of my larger pedalboard setup, used when I want everything at my disposal. I've added the Iron Ether Divaricator to this setup, which acts as a bass frequency preservation device, using a variable crossover and remixer (hi/low levels) so that only the hi freqs above the crossover point get sent to the G5n front-end virtual stompboxes. Low end below x-over freq stays intact, both low and high get re-mixed for balance and then it all gets sent to the B3 (soon to be B3n) for amp/cab modeling and final compression/limiting. This is sent to my GK head where it goes to FOH via the XLR DI output (describe previously). Thus, the IE Divaricator helps the G5n "see" a limited (low end) frequency range that is closer to that of a guitar, and so the effects tend to behave better for bass this way. YMMV. ;-)