Al Krow

I'd forgotten about this one... Recently released JACKSON SIGNATURE DAVID ELLEFSON CONCERT BASS CBX-M V 5 string PJ & blend knob reverse P EMGs 3 band EQ 35" scale graphite reinforced neck £659 GAK in the UK available in white Downsides seems to be purely active; no passive 'fall back' 21 frets rather than 24 frets I could see this being an excellent workhorse gigging bass. Oh dear...I'm kinda getting a sense of small bubbles building up in the depth of my gut, again, now that I have recently moved on my BB P35. Must resist, must resist...😂 A completely spooky "snap" arriving at the same conclusion!!

Steve - pics are always good, so yes please! But you weren't 100% of the fan of the Mackie, so hopefully this flexiblity is available on some of the other subs you're more keen on. However from what you've said I'm not clear that you are managing to feed the subs with just the low end <80Hz range i.e. we really need a lpf not hpf, but maybe that is what the sub has (would make more sense!)

Cheers Phil - always good to have your input and insights! One matter I'm trying to get my head around is a piece of kit that will allow me to take the XLR out from my mixer and to split it into two: one to go to my RCF310A tops with hpf applied at around 80Hz and the other to go to the sub with lpf applied at the same crossover frequency => both the tops and sub are working in their optimal frequency range. Given that I am dealing with unamplified signals as I am using active tops and would be looking for an active sub, I'm guessing an hpf / lpf splitter pedal with a couple of DI outs should do the trick? Anyone using one / come across one? Or alternatively an AB/Y pedal to split the signal routed through separate hpf / lpf pedals. I appreciate that this is sounding complicated, but should be easy enough to load three pedals onto a small pedal board and just get out when the sub is being used?

A post from another thread, which was very interesting in terms of getting a sound guy's perspective: "As a FOH guy, if you are playing in anything larger than a wine bar I'll take SUBS over NO subs... 99.999999% of the time! 3-way tops might work…but single 15/12/10's simply can’t reproduce the entire spectrum to give enough "bottom". Gives me far more control over the mix, and for dance music it lets me get that chest thumping kick/bass mix going. So yeah…subs all the way."

Maybe it's just me, but my biggest issue with much of the Tech 21 stuff is that it all sounds very samey. Tim Starace playing the Tech 21 Geddy Lee pedal sounds hugely like Tim Starace playing the Tech 21 Steve Harris pedal...ah well.

@dave_bass5 I could listen to Tim Starace all day and I love his new band! Still doesn't make this pedal worth £400, though 😁

With active tops like the RCF310As any tips on how best to get the tops plus one active sub connected up with a view to ensuring the tops are dealing with (say) >80Hz and sub is dealing with < 80Hz. It's classic hpf territory, I know, but not sure how you get there post-mixer and daisy chaining one top to the sub? Be very interested in how you guys are going about this and also whether 80Hz is an optimal cross-over frequency?

@Dad3353, this looks like a really good 'old' thread. Would you mind working your magic to 'refresh' the earlier posts for us please? Thanks (again!) in advance

It seems from the (very helpful, thank you!) responses so far that not all subs are equal. My biggest concern would be muddiness of sound (= makes things worse), followed by lack of "heft" / low end kick (= not adding much). Based on your experiences so far, are there subs that you rate highly and others you would recommend to steer clear of? Some of you have already shared your thoughts on this in earlier posts, so thanks for that.

Can't disagree with that. Pub gigs it's definitely going to be too much of a faff. A couple of the venues we regularly play at have a great sound system, mixing desk and sound engineer - so we don't need any of our own PA gear for that. Other folk on this thread will be playing festivals, most of which I guess will also have sound systems etc. But it's the stuff in between, particularly functions where we are providing the PA gear. Even then we "do the sound" ourselves. However our drummers are pretty adept at just micing up the kick drum which is pretty much all we are currently thinking about, although something more elaborate may be appropriate for other BC'ers.

Can you say a bit more about what you feel the Mackies are missing?

We've played Wembley and managed just fine without subs! ...ok technically it was the Jubilee Line Underground 😂

This thread is already proving quite an eye opener! I guess I was asking the wrong question previously about adding a sub to a bass amp and got a pretty much uniform "no, you're just going to get mud"; but when it's in the context of a PA for the band and particularly the kick drum in addition to the bass, it's getting a very different set of responses. Around 3/4 of folk who've responded the poll have said their bands either already have a sub with their PA or are thinking about getting one.

So the Alto 312s simply wouldn't cut it?

That's very interesting and somewhat goes against the FRFR 'orthodoxy' that has been set out over a volume of posts! I'm guessing you've experienced 745As in the flesh and found them lacking in comparison? What subs are you guys using?

Just bought a pedal from Willem. Good comms, well packaged / everything as described and very smooth transaction. Really happy to recommend. Cheers, Bas

My, that's a tasty rig! Congrats! And of course you've now got me delving (aka gassing!) into this particular cab - 😂 Spec looks awesome - does this thing really have usable frequency range that goes down to 25Hz?! If so, I can forget about ever needing a sub-woofer! And there's reference to either 8ohm or 2ohm, are these both available on the same model?

We currently use RCF 310As mainly for vocals and acoustic guitar, but the drummers in a couple of my bands have started to mic their kick drums up and putting through the PA. Been thinking about whether we should be adding a sub for the kick drum and maybe to put the bass through also? The arrival of the new Alto 31Xs series (pic is of the 312s) for under £350 makes this a much more affordable option and at 55 lbs, whilst not featherweight, should be manageable weight wise. What are you guys currently doing? If you're using a sub or finding you're managing without it would be great to hear details of your set up.

Does look neat. Guessing they're aiming this mainly at the 6 string guitar market, but a little bit of bass at 0.38 and 3.40

Ibanez SR 655E 3 band EQ with variable mid selector and even has the reverse P-pups. Active / Passive. Nord pups. I do prefer the Natural to the ABS finish, but ABS seems to be the more common one in stock.

Nope not gigged yet. Yup I've used the Mk 1 B3K with my PJ often. Most recently at the gig posted on the Gig thread. Funny story is that I accidentally kicked the drive on for the first few songs of the second set and it was about 4 songs in before I noticed (ear plugs, rest of the band mix etc.) and, of course, no one else had the least inkling. Made me laugh and didn't help my ongoing prejudice about the fuss we all make about our live bass tone which no one really notices that much (provided it's not crap) vs just needing to better bass players and playing with flair / groove, which they certainly do notice.

And yet they will pay a small fortune for a Wal? 😁