4000

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='564285' date='Aug 9 2009, 05:50 PM']+1 I didn't mean it to become a discussion about monitoring.. More about your original point about becoming so obsessed that you can't see the wood for the trees.[/quote] Having just spent the last couple of hours fiddling with the action on my Sei and ending up back where I started, I utterly agree with that Nik.

Nik, I'm really loving the Wal, the BC Rich and the Lakland. A couple of interesting points; haven't played a Pro II in years and have serious GAS for one so was dismayed to hear about the neck dive. That's something I can no longer do due to my neck problems, so sadly it seems a Pro II may have to be removed from my GAS list. Also the Lakland you describe as being very light; I was actually interested in one they had on Promenade Music's stand at Bass Day last year but upon picking it up found it weighed a ton (almost as much as the last RBV I tried ). I guess they probably vary a lot. Any idea how much yours weighs?

Problem is every player is different and requires something different so I'm not sure even that's feasible. For instance I've always played a lot of rock, like Trace Elliot but have never got on with Ampeg, the exact opposite of what many people experience. Therefore if I were to say "Ampeg; great for style X but stay away for rock" it could become very confusing.

I actually view it like a good night out, so as long as it doesnt cost me over £30 I'm doing pretty well.

Yep, this sounds familiar. This is why I nowadays hate playing with other bands.

I agree with both of you. Thing is, a lot of this depends on the individual concerned. Our guitarist has an extremely good sense of pitch, and has a lot of confidence in his abilities. No matter what he's hearing, he sings and that's that (he does half our backing but is also lead singer/guitarist in another originals band). I've never heard him sing out of tune live, ever; monitors, no monitors, doesn't matter. However our singer and myself both pitch to what we're hearing. If we can't hear or the sound is confused, then we're struggling, our singer in particular. A couple of times when we've had no adequate monitoring he's ended up singing sections of the odd song in a different key entirely - not good! No amount of practice (although possibly serious amounts of gigging, which we don't have the luxury of) can sort that. Anyway, back to the topic. I stated before that when you're not rehearsing/gigging you can often get obsessive about the little things that don't matter and I stick by it. The only way round that is to get out there and play; it changes your whole perspective (most of the time you're just trying to hear yourself!).

[quote name='GreeneKing' post='553229' date='Jul 27 2009, 09:23 PM']The friendliest music shop I've been in lately is definitely Promenade Music in Morecambe. I[/quote] Gary at Promenade is as helpful as can be. Top bloke, and a lesson to many.

[quote name='velvetkevorkian' post='563641' date='Aug 8 2009, 06:52 PM']If the action is playable but buzzy a fret dress may make all the difference[/quote] Absolutely. My old Warwick Dolphin bolt-on was never right when I first had it, but at the time (many years ago) I couldn't put my finger on the problem. I took it to the Gallery and Martin (within about 3 seconds) said something to the effect of "oh, very slight neck twist at the bottom. Can fix that with a fret stone". A few hours later it was brilliant, like night and day. I don't really understand why you wouldn't even want to try a pro set-up unless you really aren't that keen on the bass in other ways. If you like everything else about the bass surely it's got to be worth it. It sounds to me (and I may be wrong) like you're talking yourself out of it so you can move onto the next big thing (I've been there!). FWIW, I'm sure you could probably get the action really low on a Sad, but I know for a fact that Roger himself doesn't recommend what I think you (or I) would call really low action.

[quote name='Bassassin' post='563255' date='Aug 8 2009, 01:28 AM']Having just spent something like 4 years writing the best music I've ever been involved with - I can understand that entirely. But now I just want to play it! J.[/quote] And therein lies the dilemma....

[quote name='Bassassin' post='562597' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:51 AM']Don't do it! Never give up, never surrender! As another 40-something old duffer playing originals I am painfully aware that broadly speaking Joe Public won't take original material & bands seriously unless it has been validated for them - people need press, radio, TV, the web etc to basically say it's OK to like something before they'll front up cash - or even make the time to go & see it. I have played covers (to help subsidise an original band) and the fact that you're playing other peoples' songs gives you a validation that playing your own material doesn't - no matter how accomplished your own work may be there's an attitude that "if you can play ******* then you must be good!" Madness! The band I'm in now has been gigging since 2000 and it's fair to say couldn't attract flies to a sh!t fight, but it's not because we suck. Our favourite gigs are out-of-town ones where we're a completely unknown quantity, often playing first on the bill to another band's audience - we always, without fail, get massive amounts of praise & compliments, sell CDs & T-shirts (when we're organised enough to remember to bring them) and have new people getting in touch through Myspace. It seems in no way a disadvantage that we're often twice the age of the bands that we gig with and the people we play to. For me, playing music, specifically gigging, whether it be to 2 people or 200 is a life-affirming experience - we've had a couple of long breaks (6 months or so) and I hate it - in a sense gigging is what I play music for. However covers isn't really an option despite the advantages of audience size, public approbation, regular gigs & even money - I need to have a passion for what I play. I co-write my band's material with our singer, and it may be wildly egotistical, but I like our stuff better than 99% of pretty much everything else - and I actively don't want to play anything else. Jon.[/quote] +1 to 99% of the above. We always go down a storm away from home too; problem is fitting those "away" gigs into busy 40-something lives. I think what I live for musically these days though is the writing (probably always was really).

[quote name='alexclaber' post='563019' date='Aug 7 2009, 07:29 PM']Though looking back to happy days, has any hearing loss occurred since then?! Alex[/quote] Pardon?

[quote]I don't just get another bass at random, I get one when I can afford one or when I want to try something new. And unfortunatley I don't live any where near any boutique bass stores at all so trying said basses is a much harder task.[/quote] I can only suggest that before you fork out more money on another boutique bass it might be worth letting the train (or your car, or a mate's car if you don't have one) take the strain and pop up to somewhere that sells more boutique stuff, no matter how far from you it is. Take the opportunity to stay over if necessary. It may cost, but it may save you money in the long run and you may get a better idea of what you really like. I usually go to the Gallery a couple of times a year if possible and I live up North; it's not cheap but it's worth it. [quote]The Squier is far from perfect, in fact it has 2 tones to it's name and the tone knob is awful, it ruins the tone if it's even nudged. Luckily, I'm constantly trading basses so I rarely loose out on much money at all. I don't feel I need a posh brand, I just prefer those brands. I'm not a brand snob and I would happily play an unamed bass if it tickled my fancy.[/quote] My question here is do you actually [i]prefer[/i] those brands (i.e. do they work better for you) or do you just [i]desire[/i] those brands? It's a different thing. It sounds like you're reasonably happy with your Squire (nothing is perfect), happier than you are with your Smith, so you don't actually prefer the Smith. I've been playing since 1980, I've played most of the stuff out there, and I'm constantly telling myself I need this bass or that bass, and yet my old Ric consistently outperforms pretty much everything else when it comes to sounding how I want to sound in most band situations I find myself playing in. I don't actually [i]prefer[/i] brand A or brand B, I just [i]want[/i] one! Unfortunately when I get one I've often then found out that it wasn't for me after all.

[quote name='rslaing' post='563114' date='Aug 7 2009, 10:07 PM']You have answered your problem yourself. Just don't buy "boutique basses" if you can satisfy your own demands with things you already have. Just concentrate on the music. The notes you produce are much more important, because in 99% of cases, especially for bass players, you will NEVER produce the sound live that you either hear on a CD, or in a recording situation. Just accept it. I have been around a long time, and OCD is a common problem with bass players regarding gear. It makes up around 90% of the posts in this forum, for example. I have a lot of different basses/instruments. Sometimes you have to adapt to the instrument, and not expect it to be the other way round. [/quote] Good call!

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='563059' date='Aug 7 2009, 08:53 PM']Lies! There is high action and there is guitars. Do you really want to be a guitarist? Lots of thin strings and a low action?[/quote] Yes.

[quote name='Mr.T' post='562674' date='Aug 7 2009, 11:09 AM']That the place I want to get back to! The only tweeking I ever did with my Trace (If any) was the rather superb 'tilt' control on the SMX amp. I got to the point with that rig that I would just say to the g**tarist "How loud are you", adjust my level to suit (while he let a chord hang)..... and we would play![/quote] Ditto...happy days!

[quote name='rslaing' post='562995' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:52 PM']Try the same brand of strings. Regardless of them being the same gauge, strings have a different tension, and this may be the root of your problem.[/quote] +1. Sometimes it's the simplest things.....string tension within the same gauges can vary enormously from manufacturer to manufacturer, and I mean [i]enormously[/i]. If that doesn't work I'd definitely say take it to a pro. For another £100 plus or minus it may end up playing like a dream. If that doesn't work, then fair enough, consider selling it. One thing I'll add; the less playing I do (by that I mean rehearsing & gigging), the more fussy/obsessive I get about every aspect of my gear, set up especially. The more I'm actually playing (in the real sense, not just noodling at home), the less it all matters. Regarding luthiers, you could send it to one of the top pros. Some of them have a bass collection and return service, so you don't even have to leave the comfort of your own home.

[quote name='Josh' post='562958' date='Aug 7 2009, 06:20 PM']I don't really want to be spending money on something which may potentially hurt the value of this bass.[/quote] A bit obvious, but maybe the frets need tailoring a bit (you can do a lot more than just flatten 'em you know)? What about trying a Plek set-up or taking it to a bloody good luthier? There's no reason why it should hurt the value at all. It's not exactly a cheapie, so before you move it on I'm sure it's worth the risk. FWIW, and despite the above, sometimes this sort of thing does happen. IME, every individual bass is different and will tolerate a different setup. It may be that another Smith wouldn't have the same problem. Weird things do happen; I could get the action on my old Ric 4000 (sadly no longer with me) playably lower than I can on my Sei 4, which I would never have imagined. I also sometimes wonder if more frets can potentially cause more problems; after all there's more neck to correct!

[quote name='Mr.T' post='562408' date='Aug 6 2009, 11:46 PM']One advantage of having a bigger glass than is needed (half full), is that more can be added.... = Headroom. On the subject of perfection... I am sure that a Honda (In the eyes + mind of an engineer) is closer to 'perfection' than the Custom bike in my avatar, but guess what....!!![/quote] I'm with you on that. That thing rocks, and I'm not even into bikes!

Hmm. I think I've been here before, and at great length. Haven't I, OldGit? Like I said last time, the problem we have is getting people to take a chance on us (although these days it's becoming more about getting the entire band on stage without injury; it's like everyone in the band suffers from Spinal Tap Drummer syndrome. That's what you get in your 40s folks!). I must admit, I think I'm getting closer to giving up playing live (I'll play covers when Killer BOB finally takes possession of me, and not before!), but I just don't want to go out on several lows. Of course if I do get my "final" gig high, then doubtless I'll get the bug again....I'm not holding my breath though. If I'm honest I've been far happier this week staying in watching my Twin Peaks dvds than I have been playing the last few gigs (one or two a year for the past few years!). I guess those slippers are starting to feel ever so comfy......

Just my two bob's worth....this will doubtless be a bit of a ramble as I'm brainstorming really. My first decent head was a Trace AH150 GP11, one of the early ones. When I finally got the money together I bought an old (even then), used Trace 4x10. This was one of the earliest ones they did, pre-ports, pre-red stripes, pre-vinyl cover, basically half of what was in the original 250W 8x10 combo. I have a picture somewhere which I will have to post at some stage. That rig was the best rig I've ever played through live, and I've played many since. Like the OP, it worked pretty much everywhere I used it (only had one gig where it didn't and the acoustics were [i]mad[/i]). Obviously I can't do a decent comparison (both head and cab are long gone) but having used my Ashdown ABM500, a Markbass LMK and an Epifani UL502 through my Compact, the sound was a fair bit grindier and more punchy than any of my current sounds. I remember considering changing the speakers once and ringing Trace; they told me that by now the speakers would be "knackered" and would need replacing, but I liked the sound so they stayed. I actually think that was part of what I loved about them. I will also add that the sound I had (and yes I generally played rock) I would describe as big and clean, using various basses (mainly my old Rick but also Pedulla, Wal etc) with a pick. I will add though that when I changed my amp to an SVP Pro pre with power amp, I lost my sound, so obviously the head had a lot to do with it. I will also add that I used to eq the Trace fairly heavily, with a big drop off of bass and a smiley eq (also pre-shape in) heavily boosted in the upper mids & top. I would also describe the sound as very ballsy and zingy but many wouldn't; it certainly wasn't tweeter-esque (I generally hate those). I've been through all sorts of permutations since, and have yet to find a combination I'm as happy with as my original rig, but I have to add that that combination didn't work for every bass I used or for every style I play. This is still the case with my current rig. With the Ric the Ashdown/Compact comes closest to my old sound ; the ABM is eq-d with the bass about 10 oclock, the low mids boosted, the mid rotary roughly flat, the high mids boosted pretty heavily and the treble about about 4 oclock. I usually use a pick and I play very lightly. (BTW, for those who say Ashdown are dull, through the Compact the ABM is brighter and more lively than either the LMK or the UL502, so it's not as cut and dried as that. It is also bigger sounding and ballsier, although not as balanced and compressed. It's like the difference between John Entwistle and Richard Bona. Our guitarist agrees; he didn't rate either the Epi or LMK, although I will say that my Sei Melt sounds better through the LMK than the others, if unfortunately too thin to drive a rock band! Great for noodling though ). As I've mentioned before, the cabs I've had that were the least successful were the Aguilar GS112s. I tried a back to back against my old Trace 1153 and they were just lifeless. Compared to the GS112s with the tweeters off (I hate the GS112s tweeters) the 1153 was much more open, much livelier, much toppier, somewhat thinner, but just much more "alive". Of course that may not be what some people want, or the same result everyone might get. A friend and I tried my ABM, his LMK and our old Trace 300 SMX through both sets of cabs and everything (Trace included) sounded as dull as dishwater through the GSs. The LMK was by far the most successful. The SMX sounded terrible. However paired with the Trace cab the SMX came alive. The ABM through the 1153 was also great; in fact possibly better. The Compact reminds me quite a bit of the 1153; it differs, but it seems to be coming from the same place. Neither however seems to have the same midrange (non-tweeter) push as my old 4x10. Ironically the first few days I owned that I thought "my God this is middly-sounding!". I'll add that I've never played another 4x10 of any make since that had that sound (sealed and only 200w handling have something to do with it Alex?). As an aside, a year or so ago I took a couple of my basses for work to the Gallery (72 Ric and Sei Melt). Now given that currently they both need at the very least different heads to function properly, I played them both through pretty much everything in the shop and guess what? Trace Elliot won by a mile for both basses (and it was a new one)! Not a gig situation, but the sound was instantly there (maybe Alex's suggestion of familiarity played a part, but if you can plug in and get a sound you're happy with straight away compared to hours of unsuccessful tweaking with other brands, what's not to like?). I've also seen my mate the LMK owner use my old SMX/1153 set up live and the sound was always there. Huge, clear, ballsy, zingy; in fact almost everyone I've ever seen using Trace live (loads!) has had the same thing, so I'm completely with Loz on that. If it wasn't for my back, I would go back to Trace - cabs at least, though probably amps too - in a heartbeat. Anyway, I guess my points are as follows: If you like Trace, you like Trace, and it really does do that Trace thing like nothing else (and yes I'm aware of the myriad eq permutations and how they can affect "that Trace thing"...). It may be possible to replicate it using other (and lighter) means, but I always found it hugely easy to eq and - with the right bass - get the sound I want straight away and consistently, which is surely a big plus. What's more, despite it's supposed funk affiliations, I think it works superbly (for a certain type of player) in more rock-orientated situations. As above, every player, bass, etc may require something different, even when trying to achieve the same tonal end. I might have to use a completely different set-up to mimic someone else's sound, simply because I don't play like them. Obvious maybe, but often forgotten. Despite having owned 9 (10?) Ricks and a Marshall Superbass stack, the best Chris Squire sound I ever got was out of a Vester VB11 through my original Trace rig. This is where it gets very difficult to offer accurate advice on gear, although I'm sure someone with Alex's knowledge will get you as near as possible. Lastly, every different combination can potentially throw a spanner in the works. An ABM through the Compact/1153 sounds different to through an ABM cab, and nothing like it does through a GS112. An LMK sounds completely different through all of the above, as does a UL502. At least they do when I play them; YMMV. This of course probably also translates to every other brand; these are just examples based on my experience. Mix and match by all means, but be prepared for some very unsuccessful pairings! Of course then there's the small matter of the people you're playing with and the places you're playing..... Apologies for the length of the post and if it sounds like bollocks, it's been a very long day!!!!

I had an SVP, but didn't get on with it at all. Went from early Trace GP11 to that and regretted it ever after. Probably just me though.

Sonic blue, the magic words.