drTStingray

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1441618806' post='2860199'] Vintage: muffled muddy indistinct sound, where not only can you not tell what type of bass is being played, you can't tell what note is being played either. Think "hippopotamus farting underwater" and you're there. Hi-fi: Unforgivingly distinct sound, where every single wrong note and string noise is amplified a thousandfold. Useful for discovering exactly how inaccurate a tab is. [/quote] Now this is much more like it!! I do recall seeing bands in the 70s and sometimes coming away thinking the bass sound rather like indistinct elephant noises, but Tauzero, you've summed it up magnificently "hippopotamus farting underwater" - flappy farty speaker sounds also help, although not obligatory if the bass is truly vintage. Duff hearing from years of playing can also assist (especially guitarists and drummers) who sometimes seem to have a view on what a 'vintage bass sound' should be. Mr Squire RIPs live sound in the 70s did, however at times (though certainly not always) conjure up Discreet's "cutlery drawer down the stairs" imagery. Goodness, this sounds like a wonderful GCSE English question - describe vintage v modern bass guitar sound!!

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1441453559' post='2858998'] Vintage: Proper hefty bass sound with bass played as it should be, as part of a rhythm section. Rugged and manly. Hi-Fi: Widdly-widdly twangy cutlery-drawer-down-the-stairs in your face inappropriate slappy solo nipple-rub for gaylords. I await the backlash with pleasure. [/quote] I enjoy your sentiments Discreet!!! However I have the likes of Andy Fraser, Jack Bruce and Chris Squire as definitely not modern but clearly not vintage as you can hear what they play. I think vintage (UK) = pre 1968 Modern = post late 70s 70s = people listening on new fangled hi fi stereos to people recorded using old fashioned instruments but with high quality recording technique. And Discreet the only thing which ever falls down stairs musically speaking is a drum kit........

[quote name='cana.dan' timestamp='1440788875' post='2853949'] I also think the US SUB's were poplar body's rather than ash. [/quote] True but then so were many of the solid colours and blueburst in the late 80s/early 90s - and most trans red in that period were alder. I've just bought a U.S. Sub 5 from 2003 and it's extremely good. Also v light.

[quote name='JapanAxe' timestamp='1440366795' post='2850196'] A cab to the shin generally does the trick! [/quote] Definitely :-)

I did something I never thought I'd do but after a happy hour or so spent with another bass player and guitarist in the Bass Gallery noodling on various elderly Precisions I actually bought a used bass a little later in Denmark St. As my companions wished to look in other shops I was keen to watch as well. I then experienced something I never have before - I became persona non grata in every other shop we went in - 'er we don't allow gig bags in here you'll have to leave it' (in one case behind the counter and another by the door etc etc you get the drift). I thought ah you think I'm a thief going to walk off with one of your guitars - however my gig bag was v obviously loaded!! Needless to say I was less than chuffed with the idea of leaving my new purchase by the door in case someone walked off with it - a fact which appeared not to have even crossed the minds of the gentlemen running said shop. In the one where I was required to leave it behind the counter I rather pointedly opened the gig bag to check it was still there before leaving - well if they don't trust me not to swap my instrument for one of their (cheaper) ones whilst their back is turned why should I trust them not to do the same? I'd hasten to add that no one actually gave any explanation why 'er - we don't allow gig bags in here' - just 'you'll have to leave it here'. Not the best level of customer communication and service in shops inviting you to offload anything up to several thousand pounds on their wares I thought! Anyway apart from feeling a little uncomfortable, no harm done to me, I just found it a bit strange - however if I was an American tourist for instance, it may well have given me a very outraged view of Denmark St and it's outlets, if not the British in general!! I wonder if they confiscate bags when you walk in for fear of someone pinching an effects pedal or guitar pick?

I couldn't agree more - I've just bought a well used 5 in white - still with the checker plate pickguard - absolutely love it and fills my urge for a 2 band rosewood board MM 5. The neck feel reminds me exactly of my Bongo, and I think it has a standard 11 mm radius. Plays and sounds absolutely great. I have just measured my US Sub 5 - outer edge of strings at nut = 44 mm, actual neck width there 49 mm; at 12th fret outer edge of strings, 59 mm, actual neck width there 68 mm. This may be of interest to McNach but it is a very early build, late 2003 bass and although I haven't looked to check it sounds distinctly like it has series wiring (especially noticeable in slap and pop sound higher up the neck). Whatever, it's an awesome playing, sounding and looking bass and I certainly will be keeping it stock - it feels extremely light, to the extent it has significant deck dive when played seated - balances great on a strap and has been gigged several times already. A pity the previous owner put one or two nasty dings in the textured paint finish ......... but hey ho!!!!

The differences in the videos shown are generally between a 2 band or a 3 band EQ Stingray (in one case a U.S. Sterling - which has ceramic pick ups which tend to be a hotter sound), rather than a pre v post EB bass. Your key choice really is whether to go for a 2 band EQ or 3 band EQ. The 3 bands have more mid range at centre detent on the controls than a 2 band and the mid range control is a useful addition. I have lots of Stingrays and much as I love the 2 band EQ ones the 3 bands have more flexibility on the fly in some circumstances (especially when you're playing with a band in a room with boomy acoustics). The second decision will be whether to go for a multi pick up Stingray. These offer even more flexibility as you get a variety of coil selections, in addition to the classic single bridge humbucker soloed. Then how many strings do you want? A U.S. SR5 between circa 1992 and 2008 will come with a ceramic pick up which is slightly hotter in sound - all US SR5s have series/parallel switching also. The U.S. subs are good basses (I just bought a 5 string - and really like it) - effectively you're getting a slab bodied 2 band US Stingray with a rosewood board in cheaper finish - hence the lower cost. So as you can see, there are vast differences across the range (I haven't mentioned cool limited edition runs or the classic series, which have figured necks and other different features) all of these factors account for the differentials in used prices. I would suggest going for a 3 band standard single humbucker bass used - you should get one for around £750. A rosewood board will give you a slightly mellower sound, but the EQ will still allow you to get all the tones you want. Natural is a classic Stingray finish which attracts a surcharge new, which does not seem to be reflected in used prices. Best of luck with choosing.

[quote name='Meypelnek' timestamp='1439234634' post='2841172'] Just read at the EBMM Forum: Music Man is going to discontinue a whole bunch of colours and models from 31 Oct. on. Among the cuts is the whole Reflex and Big Al line - what makes me in particular very sad. The Classic Sabre will only be available in 4 colours. And it seems that most (if not all) piezzo modells are discontinued. Here's the link to the announcement: http://forums.ernieball.com/music-man-basses/61272-discontinued-music-man-list-october-31-2015-a.html [/quote] It appears the classic Sabre is discontinued, which is a great shame IMO, and possibly the classic Sterling - the remainder of the classic line (Stingray and Stingray 5) will be available in four colours only. Also the left handed Bongo is discontinued. Some cool colours disappearing there - and that's a lot of colours discontinued (presumably some of these are made mostly as customer order rather than dealer stock anyway currently). Let's hope they continue to produce some nice limited editions.

I'd love to know what some people think of Keef (presuming we're talking that chap from the Rolling Stones and not Keef Hartley?) I've long been unimpressed with icons who denigrate other bands - both Keef and Ian Anderson )separately) did this about one of my favourite ever bands on one of those bbc4 programmes - notably Ian suggesting the guitar solos were self indulgent and full of notes - hmmm I saw Ian Anderson live with Tull back in the early 70s and I would have said he gave an accurate self description. Back to Keef - he is clearly wrong - FWIW I saw them in 1973 (I think) and thought they were past it being eclipsed by the support band (Billy Preston) - notably Jagger was out of breath after every lunge across the stage and missed the next line of vocals - the only saving grace was Mick Taylor on guitar who was superb. I have mellowed since and quite like them again - I suppose my experience was like seeing the Bay City Rollers in the 80s - an anachronism. I much prefer Mick Fleetwood's take on things - he was waxing lyrical about King Crimson appearing at Hyde Park in the late 60s and said they were astonished at the musicianship - when asked about his own playing he said they kept things simple and in reality couldn't actually play the flash stuff (I guess they were a good unit and Peter Green was an awesome player). So a bit of honesty amongst icons like Keef wouldn't go amiss. I still am fond of the Stones though and am glad I saw them in the short lived Mick Taylor era.

V nice - congrats and enjoy - I have a Classic Sabre in that spec - get the bass in very bright light and the colour really pops. They also have a mahogany body.

V nice

This has some nice walking bass - nice Precision tone as well http://youtu.be/NWfx1hSeM-c

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1437842058' post='2829487'] I thank you, but I may stay traditional since I clapped eyes on this 1963 Daytona Red P-Bss... [/quote] Good lord - that is gorgeous

You can easily change from the Musicman sound to a 'generic Fender sound' by altering the position you pluck the strings and the intensity you play. Have you tried the 3 way switch - makes quite a difference - parallel (closest to bridge) is typical Stingray sound - serial (closest to neck) really beefs the sound up - centre position (single coil - without hum) gives a thinner sound. Anyway glad you found a usable sound!

Worth trying Larry Taylor on the John Mayall album Jazz Blues Fusion; Leo Lyons with Ten Years After - various tracks off the live album Undead; Woman Trouble off the album Stonedhenge. Anything by Blood Sweat and Tears. These are all electric bass players but some very inspiring stuff. Charles Mingus on upright also.

Forgive me if I'm asking a silly question but didn't G and L invent one of those back in 1980 (L1000)? Nice looking bass though - black and tort is always nice.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1437511931' post='2826740'] Miles Davis - 'Nobody knows what the bass does but they miss it if it isn't there'. [/quote] Neat - but is that quote pre 1969? You certainly can't say that of Marcus Miler's playing with Miles. I suspect even Paul Chambers would have dabbled with, if not more, electric bass had he lived long enough.

I'm willing to bet a number of our six stringed friends (guitarists) have made similar mistakes - no doubt the locals all sang with one finger in one ear - hmmm perhaps I'm stereotyping too much here!!

[quote name='Leonard Smalls' timestamp='1437494223' post='2826529'] Excellent! I hope you're also taking a pedalboard with a full array of distortion, wah and envelope follower pedals! [/quote] 😄

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1437491489' post='2826484'] In the real world, double bass playing Jazz is the normal default for a 'standards' gig, to the point where MDs will book a bad double bass player before they book a decent electric player! It is not a question of whether the bass player believes it to be authentic or acceptable, it is whether the MD believes it. My argument is simply that mostly that is exactly what they think. [/quote] Yes I don't doubt this. Thankfully I don't have to deal with such people!! I had particularly noticed Michael Buble's band had moved more to double bass - interesting and no doubt because of the standards they do - but I prefer it personally with electric.

Many of the comments in this thread about 'authentic jazz' remind me of the days of old in folk music when Dylan went electric and caused a near riot at a concert in Manchester - similar apeplexy when Fairport Convention used electric instruments and these days seen as a bunch of narrow minded people looking and sounding daft. I personally prefer Jazz on electric bass and I'm sure lots of people do. I also like upright (but please not in Miles Davis later music). What are these 'calls' which people keep saying electric players won't get? Firstly probably id wager a majority of people posting here are not professional musicians looking for a jazz session call (are there that many jazz sessions)? And secondly what is wrong with learning a range of music on your instrument - be it authentic or not? The idea is to grow musically not fit to some preconceived idea someone else has. I've learned quite a lot of music I'd never remotely expect to play in a group or even want to. But I can say it has helped me technically and theory wise to be a better player in what I do play. These people with the 'it's not a 62 precision with la bella flats through a Kustom so it's not authentic Jamerson' make me smile - they never notice it ain't Jamerson playing either. All has little relevance IMO - a bit like 'disgusted from Tunbridge Wells' in the Times letters page. They miss the point entirely.

Excellent - what is especially noticeable is the way the individual parts complement each other, leaving space - even the drumming does this. No individual part is overly complex or plays many notes - but together it sounds fabulous.

I experience this phenomena and have done/do with guitarists as well. With the drumming the issue for ears is with the high frequencies particularly (as far as ear safety goes). I have watched this situation with interest over periods of time and have developed several theories:- 1) too loud anything is usually caused by people whose hearing is suspect 2) people whose hearing is suspect don't hear higher frequencies properly so complain the bass is too loud and/or compensate by having an excruciatingly raucous tone or volume or both. 3) different instrumentalists/singers hear music in their own way - I will give you an example - the band I play in sometimes provides music by iPod in between sets - through the PA and generally at normal PA volume - when returning to play it's not unusual for the band to play along with the last bit of the final track of the interlude - all is well and beautifully mixed until the guitarist joins in who summarily drowns the entire band and the music track - does he hear music that way - ie it is only the guitar?? The problem is that is the volume he will play at so the entire band ratchets up to match it - meaning the band is excruciatingly loud at the start. 4) I was sat talking in the audience between sets during a gig of the band at 3) when the guitarist played a few notes having changed a string - it was truly ear shatteringly uncomfortable - if I'd been a punter I would not have stayed 5) I once played in a band with an elderly guitar player whose hearing really was shattered through a lifetime of gigs and I believe one incident with a PA contributed greatly - anyway he regularly moaned that the bass was too loud - he was so concerned about this he bought a radio device so he could stand at the back of the room at sound check and be assured the mix was ok - he was stunned that the sound in the audience area was well balanced - however the root cause - that he heard no treble and a heightened version frequencies at the bass end was not resolved - that band had a seemingly raucous guitar sound which led to people leaving gigs - it was also compounded by a singer who's idea of 50s Echo was to submerge his voice in slap back echo and reverb. So two issues there - hearing problems and perception problems - they are extremely audible on recordings made. So what's the answer to all this - and to the OPs problem - well comments about people's volumes generally creates defensiveness and denial and bad feeling - unless you entrust the job to someone independent - eg a sound engineer. My own problem is not being able to hear myself if people play too loud - and if I can't I'm pretty damned sure other band members can't as well. However the bass sound carries and the result is being too loud at the back of the room. Our (sometimes loud) drummer moaned at our guitarist at a recent band meeting - to paraphrase - for having an unmixed sound the direction from which it originated being obvious to the audience. The drummer was asked about his volume at times (he is very good at lowering his volume to create dynamics but tends to drum louder when the band get louder) - his response was he's not s jazz drummer! Which is a lie because he can play jazz admirably. A complex issue involving personalities, perceptions and even physical issues (hearing). Sometimes it's good for someone to say - we re too bloody loud - turn down!!

[quote name='Old Horse Murphy' timestamp='1436627059' post='2819643'] I've taken the neck off to look closer but unfortunately it's just as illegible as the photo By all accounts and speaking to a few people on the Ernie Ball forum, "red" was a colour option at the time and it certainly is that [/quote] Indeed - if you follow the link below (independent database - probably the best info you can get on pre EB instruments) you'll see there are quite a few basses listed with B027xxx serials in 1988 even though EBMM had used serials without the B0 prefix before and continued to use them after - perhaps they used up a batch of pre EB bridges? Anyway there are several listed as red and they certainly made other basses in the late pre EB period in that same colour (I've seen Stingrays and Cutlass basses) - as has been said on the EBMM forum the first Stingray EB made was in that solid red colour also. It looks a very nice bass. http://www.musicmanbass.org/mycustompage0028.htm

[quote name='LayDownThaFunk' timestamp='1436515714' post='2818691'] Tell me Royal Blood isn't helping newbies pick up the bass for the first time, [/quote] Agreed - I had Muse with Chris Wolstenholm in that category as well. But they are exceptions - kids starting to play will generally get the 'sit in the background with a smiley face EQ and play a Precision with flats' mentality - as if it's 1960 again. A far cry from Royal Blood and guaranteed to put them off!