drTStingray

Yeah good view if you’re bidding. Back in 2010 or so, I bid on an immaculate 1989 trans red Ray with fabulous birds eye maple neck and board - I dropped out at £900 - it went for £1200 - what I didn’t realise was the tear drop case alone was worth £300 (as the up market pre EB basses - eg Cutlass, as well as some Rays and Sabres came in those). Mind you every cloud - I got a similarly beautiful 93 fretless in its original deluxe gig bag, immaculate, a couple of weeks later for just over £750!! Did a lot of gigs with that bass (paid for itself several times over). I still have it 👍

I guess you’ve got the choice of sending it back and wait for another to pop up somewhere. Presuming used prices haven’t gone through the roof, you should get one between £500 and £600 I’d guess. As for the BD remark about normal prices, whoever said that there clearly doesn’t have a clue - BUT it will be a commission sale so very probably 15% added to the price the seller gets.

Yes especially dangerous when buying Sansamps!! 😩

I try and do the ‘right’ thing basically - and yes I think there is a morality involved - I’m not in it as a business so can afford to take such a view - there are businesses which do the right thing and others which don’t . I’m afraid that market traderesque bartering is something that doesn’t appeal - particularly when dealing with luxury items (which musical instruments are).

Don’t you just love the Basschat threads take a life of their own - this one seems to have become a repository for posting every low ball Stingray price on the net worldwide. On the Bass Direct Sub what do ‘the experts’ here think is the correct rating of condition? And if @Waddo Soqable likes the bass why send it back because of the neck points - I would ask for a reduction - maybe £50. But it’s all not relevant to this thread title anyway?? I am coming away with the impression that there are a number of market trader-esque of used car salesman/ buyers on the forum which will make me think twice about selling anything here!!

This article plus stories from one or two people I know in the industry reveal another ‘unforeseen’ issue from Brexit. If firms are offering 20% wage increases just to retain/recruit delivery drivers, it looks like shipping costs (and everything else costs) are going to ‘inflate’….. Anyone get the distinct feeling that those promoting Brexit either didn’t have a clue about economics or anything else?! Whilst Covid issues are also wrapped up in this, the fact that UK’s economy has ‘bounced back significantly slower than any other comparable economy suggests another economic condition other than Covid effect has occurred. https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/the-grocer-blog-daily-bread/the-hgv-driver-shortage-has-hit-catastrophic-levels-industry-needs-government-intervention/656892.article

No problem - I know there a few people on here and TB who have that point of view view 👍 I’m just saying there are other points of view which differ - the commission sales in shops (not just of Stingrays) show there is a broader market. There’s a whole thread full of problems relating to scammers on FB market place so you takes your chance there - on the other hand there are also FB groups for some instruments - like supporters clubs - and I guess like car clubs (eg the MG Car Club), people might sell to each other within that as they’re all enthusiasts.

I feel this needs challenging as I know there are some people on here that have this view and buy and sell Stingrays because they like the idea, then can’t get on with them - or maybe do this several times think - this is not necessarily reflective of the market for Stingrays and is really an oversimplification and although I don’t want to start a silly poll (and as Basschat is fairly unrepresentative of the broader bass market it wouldn’t be much help anyway), there are a fair few people around who are a bit more discerning than that. There are vast differences across the years of production and certainly since 2005, there have been a range of additional options, and loads of variations of models, both standard and short run. Since 2018 there has been the introduction of the Stingray Special model. That’s before you get into desirable or otherwise colours - even back into the 80s and 90s. A new one is the mid 90s was £750 - a new one now is in the high £2ks. (The US Subs were about £425/450 new in the 2003-6 production period - gig bag (no case) - the passive was slightly cheaper). Saying a Stingray costs x is about as helpful in the real world as saying a Classic Mini was on sale for £5k, and a Classic Cooper S might be a bit more (oh yeah - a mint one might actually be £45k) - apart from for people who just want a Stingray and don’t actually care (I think it is a major presumption that is the market). It doesn’t just apply to Stingrays - the same is true of other basses (eg Warwick - tons of models - different values; Precisions - vast range of models of more or less the same thing - vast range of prices - occasional ‘bargains’ for one reason or another). I must say if I found a Ray being sold by a struggling muso, and it was a model I was really after, you wouldn’t catching me offering a low ball price, in fact I would be more than happy to pay a going rate and probably more - I’d be more than happy to outbid the ‘flippers’. If I did pay a low ball price, I would most certainly feel I was taking advantage of such a person, who you could consider to be in a ‘vulnerable’ position - there is a distasteful side to capitalism imho!

I have one (amongst its 9 other more expensive (some very much more) siblings. They’re great and sound exactly as a 2 band Stingray should - the string of cost saving measures are largely on body material (multiple, poorly matched pieces of poplar), no contours (so slab body as pre EB and Stingray Classic), neck finishing (covered with black paint - lack of hand finished fret end slots etc), body finish (textured) but the electronics and hardware are all standard (but unbranded hardware) US Stingray bits. Just remember the price of these has increased, and like with normal Stingrays, a lot of people prefer them stock! A good purchase though - they sound exactly as you’d expect a poplar bodied, rosewood board 2 band Stingray to.

😂 I’ve ceased bothering to defeat the silly profanity filter - the correct word was the male version of a hen - bizarrely a pink torpedo according to this forum!!!

I don’t agree with the first point. The last point is the key to it - look at the prices achieved on commission sales at places like The Gallery. You’re not the first here to say they’d achieved sales on commission, recently where they couldn’t for appropriate prices elsewhere. I just wonder if prices for some basses are now beyond what the people frequenting this forum and EBay etc are willing to pay unless people want a quick sale as they need the cash. A lot depends on the person buying - if they ‘just want a Ray or a P - any one will do’, they may not be typical of the broader market. Just look at the price of used Wals (for specific reasons).

Well that is quite bonkers!! I paid £750 for a used one in 2005 and that is 16 yrs ago…..someone has a bargain there. I wouldn’t sell any of mine for that price as they simply are worth more (both to me and based on the market). As I have said earlier, prices are generally increasing - but there will always be outliers (not least if people are desperate to sell - or there’s a pink torpedo up in valuation by the seller - I do recall a couple of years back someone saying they’d bought a US Sub for a price more appropriate to an import Sub). Car prices are another good pointer……. the worry is this is all the tip of an iceberg and the supply problems will inflate prices of everything and thus fuel inflation - I’m sure there are others who remember the days of 15% per annum being the norm.

Nice tracks - @bloke_zero he appears to be using an octaver on both tracks and I’d say the P bass has flats from the sound - I like this type of sound and playing which is quite similar to Pino. However, what the P can’t do is a more upfront clean bass sound with plenty of top - as an example, back in the early 70s, there were examples of Walters using a trebly sound on a Precision - and then there was Squire with a proper treble sound not on a Precision….. similarly hear Edwards playing finger pops on his flats equipped Ray (We Are Family for instance) and compare with the same on a Precision (even Sam Wilkes on the attached films). The Precision is a really good instrument and also played with a pick BUT it certainly can’t cover certain ground, even with EQ and pre amp assistance - and even then there are styles for which it is not, for me, the most appropriate choice. It’s all a matter of personal taste really. Last night I was watching some live footage of Alan Spenner playing in around 1974 - as well as great playing and sound - he was playing a Precision - I was reminded why I wanted one back then - I was then reminded I saw him live in about 1979 playing a Wal and how much better it sounded in all respects….slightly different genre (Kokomo - soul/funk - 1974 was more rock/r and b)…. I guess we’ve all got different takes on this.

The view of whether they sound great or not is a matter of opinion I guess - having seen Pops Popwell several times with the Crusaders, he’s one of the guys of that era who played the bass very hard - and got a good sound accordingly, I was actually a big fan of his playing - there are others (Precision players) and definitely a lot around in the 70s (especially black R and B players such as Louis Johnson etc) however as I said, I have to work (play) too hard to achieve that on a Precision - I also have a slight dislike for the tone with the tone control fully open - I much prefer Louis Js Stingray or Alembic eras; same with other bands (Kool and the Gang; Rose Royce) - more defined/refined sound - I guess it’s down to personal taste.

Do any of you guys who swear by the P bass play anything with a hint of fusion? I can see how they would suffice, even excel in some genres, however even with soul music I like something with a bit more definition in the sound (without me having to play excessively hard to get it) - that can be achieved by muting technique and a bass with a more defined sound. I guess I’m talking B Edwards late 70s sound v a mid sixties Motown (Babbitt orJamerson) or Duck Dunn sound. Even though it’s not Bernard Edwards playing, Sister Sledge’s version of My Guy (circa early 80s) v the original (which is also upright in fact) demonstrates the point v clearly.

I tend to agree with you - certainly with cars the prototypes rarely make it into the wild. However I know it applies to Stingray 5s as there appear to be more than one pre-production/prototype around - one of the members on here has one - marginally different from the production one and called a V rather than 5 on the headstock 👍

I found what @Stacker or @Grinderman posted (not even sure who it was 😧) quite interesting. It has struck me there must be a lot of closet would be (or actual) grammar school teachers (the type who’ll chuck a text book at your head for an undotted i, split infinitive etc etc rather than read the actual content) around here 😬 I seem to recall a guy who posted some interesting stuff but interspersed with random commas which also started a fury amongst the grammatical types shouting at the clouds for moving 😂😂 That said block capital emphasis does tend to grate a little….ever since Bill Gates or someone claimed it’s keyboard shouting. Anyone else seen a Jazz bass prototype? 😀

I’m not sure Sir George Martin, Trevor Horn et al would agree with you on that 😏

I certainly am very conscious there are people in the position you’ve described and really empathise with that - however the point I’ve been making is it seems the price of instruments is on the up - including used as shown in cases in this thread - in the case of used Wal basses, they are now changing hands for in excess (way in excess in the US) of the price of a new one. So sellers, if they can find a buyer, should get a good price for a used instrument. I bought a used bog standard 3 band Ray in a nice colour, a bit battered for around £750 in 2014 - I wouldn’t expect to pay under £1000 for the same thing now, and significantly more if it was a Classic, Special or any other version out of the ordinary. Without wishing to appear disrespectful £600 for a used Ray seems cloud cuckoo land to me - they were £750 used back in the mid 2000s (15 yrs + ago) - £750 new in the early 90s - £600 may get you a used US Sub 5 these days. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, look at the prices for used basses achieved in commission sales in various well known shops if you want to see realistic prices achieved (the seller clearly pays commission but taking that into account the prices are, in some cases, significantly different from what might be achieved here - the demographics of a forum may be far more specific than retail outlets, which may have a broader base - and many of the instruments listed do appear to sell - in the case of the rare ones I’m interested in - before I get the chance to buy them it seems 😩 !!!)

Just as an add on - I don’t think Fender prices have reached the stratosphere yet - I’m not sure if they have temporary immunity from supply chain issues as possibly their previous model of flooding the market and possibly stockpiling parts (wood for instance) might have given them a buffer whilst the items in the supply chain are sold/manufactured - however there are becoming issues of being able to purchase certain consumer goods at all (including certain bass guitars and amplification equipment). Presumably it will hit Fender eventually as well. Their financial model is quite different from others.

Unless it’s a Wal - it looks like used prices are increasing of many types of basses particularly if the seller doesn’t mind waiting for the right person to turn up! Most new prices are increasing often because component costs are increasing or not even available. Shipping being a big issue throughout the supply chains for consumer goods. Many commentators think we may be heading for inflation - I can’t see ho it can be avoided given current circumstances - unless Government Consumer Price Index manages to only focus on those items which aren’t increasing.....

In the film industry people have to put up with being called ‘gaffer’ (even if they aren’t ex members of the Sweeney), and ‘best boy’ etc etc 😀 they even get listed in the credits at the end of films. So I can see the need for more appropriate and precise terminology here. As we already have the acronym FOH, wouldn’t an acronym be best? Or just generic ‘sound’. A pet peeve of mine is the notion that the band and especially the bass player, just provide a basic ‘generic’ sound and the soundists at the desk create the overall band sound. This is, of course, rubbish. The amount of time and energy spent creating ‘the band’s sound’ on, say an album is huge and generally people going to see the band live would expect in general to hear a live representation of what they’d heard previously. When I saw Yes live in the 70s they did sound reasonably close to the recorded sound - notably the bass - similarly when seeing Free live that incredibly fat bass sound was present. In each case the band had created that sound and the team on the desk had mixed it to suit and fill the venue. For pub and local venues surely the same should apply. In terms of being precious about the use of the term ‘Engineer’, I work in engineering in an environment where everyone is qualified or working towards some level of qualification, be they technical, engineering or some other discipline. There are people who are precious about using the word and I can understand it to an extent - there are also people who are simply being elitist though, some cringingly so 😧 something which doesn’t sit well with my 60s upbringing, where all forms of class-based elitism were (quite rightly) mocked by satirists and dismantled as the country grew out of archaic and inappropriate social structures. Music was part of that as was the business of sound recording, mixing/engineering. Remember when Cliff Richard and The Shadows and The Beatles started in the early 60s, it’s said the recording engineers wore white lab coats etc etc and there was a specific hierarchy of them, and defined set of rules (which these guys broke on occasion to create new sounds). I voted sound tech btw..... I’ve heard them called this often. Usually recording engineer in a studio.

It’s not just the bass and drums which need to consider this. The guitarist needs to play in a way during the song which avoids the impression that a massive void has been created whilst they solo. This also applies more generally in music and isn’t restricted to three piece rock bands, for instance. A combination of changing the bass part a little, the drummer perhaps going to ride symbol and if there’s a separate vocalist, maybe adding tambourine might all complement the solo and subtly fill the void created during a solo. Its interesting this applies with a keyboard based band and the keyboard going into a solo from, say a boogie woogie style left hand - the bass playing an octaved walking bass to replace the missing left hand piano line can work (if the bassist can do it!!) However if your three piece is based on the guitarist playing barre chords in frets 1 to 5 all night except when soloing, and also dependent on the sound they’re using, it may be difficult to compensate!!

I’m sure the Custom Shop would - at a price.... - however Andy Baxter Bass has two nice 1980s Fender Elite Ps of this configuration in stock. https://www.andybaxterbass.com/products/1983-fender-elite-precision-bass-ii-pewter I know I’m miles out of date but shouldn’t Dimarzio replacement P and J pick ups have white covers??!!

This is really good - one of the most iconic bass lines ever - clearly a Fender Precision as well. Thanks for posting 👍