drTStingray

Thanks for this. I’ve seen footage of him using Acoustic but to be fair, it was from the early/mid 70s. Many reggae bands used 18” speakers at the time. This is from before the days when ‘lowly’ bass players featured in guitar magazines, or specialist magazines existed for them!!

‘Family Man’ Barratt did use a Jazz in the 70s, but into an Acoustic 370/301. I’m sure if he was playing the same stuff now he’d be using decent class D equipment. The bass player in Steel Pulse used a very nice Stingray. It never ceases to amaze me how everyone presumes every bassist used Ampeg - in the 70s Ampeg would be a V4B - and they were not ubiquitous with bands - John Paul Jones was another Acoustic amplification user. We need to beware current ‘industry standards’, which are often based on an incorrect impression of what was used historically. For 90s pop - Musicman Stingray 5.

Im surprised a shop 20 yrs ago didn’t have half a dozen entry level basses - including possibly a Vintage Stingray copy; Encore Precision copy etc etc. Even my local music shop had those. If they wanted to carry Squier instruments, they had to take 20 items at a time (and what the Fender distributor decided they should have - Fender’s business model worked on the basis they over-produced guitars and used retailer’s showrooms to park them all - hence the walls full in some showrooms). Now 20 yrs ago, you could go on a tour of several shops in Denmark St and the Bass Centre and find multiple left handed Stingrays, Warwick’s, Fenders - fretless basses, Stingrays, Stingray 5s etc etc. I think Guitar Guitar still does carry more than the ubiquitous Fenders. To pick up on @Chris B’s earlier post in this thread, to be honest, the only place I see 4 string Fenders being used are with professional acts (eg Adele last weekend). Not sure why some of them even bother as they’re often virtually inaudible - no doubt you can ‘feel’ the bass in the actual performance - heft and all that 😏 😩

I must remember that next time I see a sonic blue Fender 😀😂

Messrs Musicman clearly missed a trick when they named this rare and somewhat infamous colour aherm….. trans green.

I fear I may have done a couple of shops a disservice - the likes of Andertons stock quite a lot of basses - however many music shops stock vastly more guitars than basses - and probably sell far more of them to be fair. 20 yrs ago it was a quite different picture - perhaps the allure of being a bass player has reduced.

You are of course quite wrong - a bass guitar of ANY TYPE is a niche instrument in most music shops these days, from what I’ve seen.

That is a very subjective view. However I certainly can tell the difference between instruments of the same make and type but different fretboard necks and bodies, for instance and definitely between low end and higher end models of the same instrument type, as a player. Anyone else’s view is frankly irrelevant to the player. I would be surprised if anyone couldn’t tell the difference between say the sound of a Precision bass, a Stingray and an Alembic. I do worry that there’s a certain level of sniping at other people’s choices somehow being wrong, irrelevant or less relevant in threads like this. Surely, so long as the musician is happy with their choice then it is likely they will get joy from performing and will be closer to achieving their playing ability than if they were playing something that they were not happy with - regardless of how much they paid for an instrument to achieve that. I’m happy to pay extra, for example, for a figured maple neck or a specific colour because they please me, aesthetically. Others may not like them - it’s all a matter of personal choice - and there are lots of them with an instrument. Functionality is by no means the only driver for purchases.

Indeed they are but how much real value is added sound wise? And can the average listener tell the difference. I think, as with electric instruments, many can - but the same is true of acoustic guitars. The high level makes such as Martin and Taylor generally produce instruments with exquisite tone - but are cheaper instruments that different? Can the average listener tell the difference? There’s a world of difference in how different types and manufacturing of electric instruments are carried out, the cost and volume of the labour (and in which economy that’s based), the cost of materials and the perceived market value all have a bearing on it.

If we applied the same sort of approach to electric instruments as orchestral players do, why is it then that orchestral players may pay £10s of k for their instruments or even hire one which has even more value, when for anyone who has children who learn instruments will know student instruments can be had for the outlay of £100s rather than £1000s + (thankfully)? It would be interesting to hear the sound of an entire symphony orchestra playing student instruments - I think sound and it’s appreciation is a very subjective thing and works also at the margins where, to some people, an imperceptible difference is a massive chasm to others. When I hear people say, of bass sounds, it’ll not be detectable in the mix, well that’s certainly true in some mixes (especially some pop music of the last decade or more) but ask it to do a more fundamental job in the music performed (rather than background plodding and mush) and place it higher in the mix, I’m afraid I completely disagree. That’s where your sound is crucial. It’s also fundamentally important to the player that they are happy with their instrument and the sound it makes - regardless of how much it cost. Some people work on the basis of getting great satisfaction out of a financial bargain - good luck to them - but that’s no reason to suggest others are paying through the nose to achieve value which is not part of the bargain hunters’ core requirements. I once played in a tribute band to an early 60s famous pop outfit - the other guys were from an earlier generation and I always used to inwardly snigger as they loaded their newish Mercedes cars with flight cases to protect their cheap Mexican Fender instruments and wreck the inside of their expensive cars - but the idea of buying a Custom Shop Strat was to them anathema and an extravagance - a sort of an austerity attitude to their musical hobby and anything else would be an indulgence - whereas the cars demonstrated a different approach!!! The world would be a very boring place if we were all the same (especially if we all played Sunburst P basses 😂 - a sort of free market musical version of the Trabant to the motoring market)

I suppose the answer to the OP’s question is - it all depends what the consumer is seeking from their purchase. It’s perfectly obvious that in any purchase there is an element of choosing between something which does the basics adequately - say gets you from A to B, performs a basic function etc etc. apply that to mobile phones - well why do so many people choose something like an iPhone or high end Samsung when there are far cheaper products that do at least some of the job equally well. The answer is very complex but part of it is the higher end stuff may have more functionality, look and feel more attractive and 101 other things. Apply that to a musical instrument like a bass guitar - take a simple entry level bass guitar like a Precision - available in a range from probably £100 to the skies the limit - will they all perform a basic function of providing a usable and functional instrument - well yes up to a point dependent on what else you are looking for from your purchase and to an extent, what sound you are looking for and pleases you. Many people will want a more refined sound, look, feel or (insert your own requirement(s)), that certain brands and types may give - and all of this is down to a combination of design, construction, electronics and the skill of the player to extract that sound - we can argue all day (probably with diminishing returns) which is more important, but ultimately it’s down to the user and their choice so you’re really discussing/arguing whose choice is right or wrong. Im sure there are types of cars available which perform a basic function only but I’d wager few people on this forum choose those - the reasons for their choices are way more complex!! But ultimately it’s what makes people happy with parting with their money (and their ability to afford financially to make those choices) which determines it. As to who’s right or wrong - well is there much point in debating that?

Increasing the mid range (on board on an active with 3 band of more; on the amp for passive of 2 band active - you can also increase the mid range on the latter by lowering the bass and treble controls especially if they’re full on, and dependent on bass model) usually makes harmonics ring better but I’d also second the use of a compressor - in fact I’m looking at exactly that currently - one of the reasons (but there are others) being to enhance pinched harmonics.

I too have always liked the Jazz Bass slap sound (and finger style) but to me a Stingray (and particularly a dual pick up one with both humbuckers engaged) gives more girth to the sound - less ‘boingy’ sounding - I guess we all have our own likes and dislikes. Marcus Miller’s active Jazz tone is more beefy than a passive Jazz but the Stingray still nails it for me 😀

Oh well - all’s right with the world then - also I still don’t have a NAMM Stingray and one of our fellow forum members now has the appropriate number 😂😀 Regarding the MK (42 only) Jazz Basses, I always took it that as there appears to be a majority of people on forums that think MK is senseless noodling (sorry that’s wrong, that was a Jaco description 😩) - but certainly don’t like slap bass and definitely don’t like MK, then what chance a signature Jazz!! I know there’s a certain amount of panning and in equal or greater measure hero worship of what some may consider rather ordinary Fender models, I thought these potentially, but in particular, were being rather unfairly panned and am willing to give them a chance - I like the colour and the LEDs (and Iceni basses). However I’m one of the people who appreciate MK is one of the best bass players ever and really like his playing - wish I could do it!! Players like MK have always focussed opinion from some players - I am reminded that, having attended with the same guitarist amongst others a Stanley Clarke concert in about 1976 (he dropped his DB accidentally and broke the neck off in the quiet jazz bit of the set - then announced ‘don’t worry I have another’ ) 😳and a Level 42 gig at the Birmingham Uni Students Union bar IIRC in about 1980/1, said guitarist uttered after each gig “hmmm they could do with a bass player”………. 😂😁 as I say MK focusses opinion (and I remain amazed at the number of females who attend Level 42 concerts).

I play in a band with a sax player. He has clip on mikes for his saxes and has a channel in the PA. he also has his own monitor speaker system which he always uses, which comprises a speaker cabinet mounted on top of a stand (I think it’s a mike stand with the clip removed) and the speaker mounted on top at head height, which he has next to him. He also has effects units but I’m not sure how the whole lot is wired up. The rest of the band can usually hear him fine even where we have limited monitoring in small venues. Best of luck with getting it sorted - being unable to hear yourself properly is one of the most frustrating and unsatisfactory things for a musician - as a bass player I find low speaker cabinets at floor level (raising them helps a lot), and extremely loud drummers to be the usual culprits.

Very nice - they’re great basses to play - so comfortable 😊

I think the first ones he assembled were from already made parts - but not all pre EB Stingrays are heavy - I don’t recall mine being heavy although it was about 40 yrs ago when I bought it so such things would probably not have been at the front of my mind - the main selling points were that I wanted one, loved the sound of the instrument and it had a very easy neck to play (the lack of the latter was one of the things that put me off my previous heart’s delight, a Precision). Moving to EBMM Stingrays, I find the 90s models have a slightly more chunky neck - still great to play - but the later production and current Stingray Specials somehow have totally sublime necks - in my view it’s a combination of the attention to detail (they’re all hand finished), the roasted neck, the finish on the neck and the profile/width combination. In terms of weight, my Classic Stingray (made April 2010 from very early production) is 9.75 lbs. My Old Smoothie (also slab bodied), from 2016 is lighter - about 9 lbs. I have a 2014 mahogany bodied Sabre Classic and that’s also about 9 lbs - as is my 2007 Stingray 4HH. More recently, the Stingray Specials are generally light in comparison, even the 5 strings - my 4HH and 5HH are a little over 8 lbs. My last two EBMM basses (Stingray Special long scale Tim Commerford signature - passive) and Bongo 5HH Crescendo are just under 8 lbs and 7.75 lbs. From this I’d conclude that the more recent production is lighter generally than the 90s/2000 models. However I would point out I have an SR5 which is between 10 and 11 lbs - but has excellent balance on a strap - using a well padded strap this bass is fine for me on a gig - it sounds and looks great as well - lovely figured ash body/maple neck. 10-11 lbs (2003 5 string/ash bodied bass) Under 8 lbs (2021 basswood bodied bass) Just under 8 lbs (2021 ash bodied bass)

Upper one for me if you ever think of selling 😏😁 I know you’re not though - certainly top end of my list of wants!! (Do they have strings through as well).

Awesome signature basses - as well as one of the nicest Wals I’ve ever seen - and talking of queues, do you still have two (yes two) NAMM 100 Stingrays? (Don’t tell me, you’ve acquired another 😀) You’re right the LK Rickenbacker is an acquired taste - the standard Rick sort of Art Deco look, combined with gothic looking carving is a strange but alluring look!! 😂

I’ve never really gone for signature instruments although I did dally with the idea of a Marcus Miller Fender Jazz at one time - to the extent of trying them out UNTIL ……. this wonderful beauty appeared. It’s currently my number 1 player Yes - it’s a Tim Commerford signature Stingray Special - passive, long scale. (Offensive wallpaper courtesy Messrs Greene King 😂). Absolutely great bass and sufficiently different from a standard spec Stingray Special to justify the name (and price IMHO).

As I said before, the 3 band Stingray has an HPF. Whether you need one to deal with the Orange I don’t know but it sounds from the previous description of its EQ that the mids are vastly scooped. You could try boosting the mids on the Stingray but a multi band external EQ would probably enable you to pick the band to boost more accurately for your taste.

That’s an interesting suggestion re the Orange amp. I have only used an Orange set up once (valve), when provided at an outdoor festival - I use Stingrays and I found the sound somewhat scooped (but big bass booty in a good way) with the amp EQ centred. As far as the sound from the Stingray is concerned, I’m presuming you’re using a pre Stingray Special 3 band? The reason I query this is the Special is slightly different. Firstly the 3 band Stingray has an HPF (unlike the Stingray 2 band circuit). Presuming a single pick up Stingray, I tend to start with the bass and treble boosted slightly and the mid cut a little - not too dissimilar from yourself - note that cutting the mid significantly gets close to a 2 band sound. I boost the mids slightly more for songs where the bass might require to cut through more (but not be excessively loud). I use this setting on an SR5 also - for a two pick up Stingray using any of the combinations available which use both pick ups, I don’t boost the bass but would start with mids at centre and maybe boost them slightly. The EQ, and especially the mids, are voiced differently on the Stingray Special - as well as being an 18 volt circuit with neodymium pick ups. Howver we all hear things differently and have our own views on what constitutes a good bass sound - there is no right answer so whatever suits you. Playing style also has a significant effect. I got a decent sound from the Orange but felt it was naturally scooped, especially in the highs. I had the same experience with a Fender Rumble combo (again provided) - until I discovered it had one of the pre-set shape buttons activated so was excessively scooped (it was ok after I turned that off). I use a Mark Bass LM3 with Mark Bass 2 x 10s which give a certain mid presence, fat bass, and clear highs - whilst other amps can do this, they all have their own sound colouration, and a number of makes do seem to lean towards mid cut at centre detent.

I know that’s a viewpoint but I think there’s more understanding than that amongst audiences - who appreciate a good bass sound and contribution - just look at Hozier - the bassist has a Skjold bass and the bass sound live is phenomenal. However that’s not to say a good result can’t be had from a £300 bass - it’s just in the right hands, a better one can be had from a different, and expensive bass. I remember some members on this forum complaining of a growing trend for what they described a few years back I think as a tendency towards background pithering on bass - no doubt if that’s the role of the bass player then people probably won’t notice.

Very interesting article - very balanced opinion and reasoning. Interestingly quite a lot matches my own experience of electric instruments. I guess everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I know who’s opinion I would trust when comparing those of highly respected luthiers and interested amateurs with an opinion on the subject on the internet 😉😁 I suppose when a reasonable proportion of players are happy to play pretty rudimentary instruments designed in the 50s, anyone suggesting there is more to the subject of tone and functionality is almost bound to be shouted down. Thankfully other industries involving engineering do not rely on getting away with such things - I’m really glad my 2019 car doesn’t have 1950s spec wheels and tyres, and my train journey of 150 miles on Sunday is not going to be at low average speed on a ‘heritage’ train, or my dinner will not be cooked on an appliance designed over 60 yrs ago (in fact you can insert virtually any item and have a bit of a chuckle). It’s a funny old industry eh!!! 😁👍

I love that Wal - fabulous.