Rick's Fine '52

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1335994565' post='1639375'] Don't need to. Just like don't need to on Ebay. [/quote] But you can't shill at a car auction!! You can have a friend bid on it for you though, same thing. I think you're missing the point though. Shilling is basically bidding, as someone else said. No-one loses, except eBay on the fee's.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1335994314' post='1639366'] I've seen this too, but there may be ways to deal with it. For example: If Rick colludes with Dave (name picked at random), then Dave can place a £7000 bid. Meanwhile, Rick uses Auction Sniper or similar to place a last-second bid at £8000. When BadGuy #2 places his silly £50k bid, bidding goes temporarily to £7050 and BadGuy #1 now thinks he need only place a £7100 bid to win. Sense? Or barking? [/quote] Never heard of auction sniper, so I'm a bit lost?? Guessing its software to protect your maximum bid, and only disclose it in increments?? Not sure I'd trust it if I was bidding top money on something I really wanted though?

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1335993661' post='1639353'] For me it's because it's not a genuine sale. If you get my drift. If you put a car through a car auction are you allowed to bid up your own motor? you'd get fairly short change if you did. It's not really No one Loses out scenario as you are supposed to be bidding against another potential buyer. Not the seller trying to make extra coinage artificially increasing the selling price. [/quote] At a car auction, you state a reserve. Theres no artificially increasing the price. Its just another way of ensuring an item meets the sellers minimum bid, or reserve price. You can do that by setting a reserve, or starting the auction at your reserve price. Or you can do it by shilling, which is not in the spirit of the bidding process, but the system allows it. Don't get me wrong, I am totally against it, but its just another way, it doesn't put the price up. No-ones naive enough to think a seller will let his £1000 guitar go for £300, because he forgot to put a reserve on!! eBay actually monitors bidders who regularly bid on a particular sellers items. I know this because many years ago, I was a big Stone Roses memorabilia collector and used to buy lots of items from the same seller who had loads of top stuff. eBay opened an enquiry into it, which was good to see. Was all fine, as we could prove payments made via Paypal for the items, but they do check.

The worst thing about eBay, which I've seen alot, especially on high end guitars is this; Say a bass is currently sitting at £4k, I'm the highest bidder and my max bid is £8k. Someone (A genuine buyer), will get a friend with an account to make a huge bid (Way over its value), lets say £50k, the high bid will then be £8050, and they will be the new highest bidder. They then instantly know that my highest bid is £8000. They then cancel the bid, stating they 'entered the wrong amount', which is shown, and people will see the £50k bid was wrong and cancelled reasonably. The bid then go's back to £4k, but the other buyer in competition with me, knows my max (For the moment at least), is £8k. It does give an unfair view, which I've seen dozens of times. Impossible to prove, but shady nonetheless.

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1335984896' post='1639196'] Well if it's an honest bidder who ever puts the highest bid on win. So it doesn't matter. And shillers don't usually put a big heavy bid on way over the highest bid anyway, like I said they tend to go up in small increments otherwise they put their item up too high to sell. Especially done in the last minutes of an auction without time to cancel. It's just a tool to take away some of the likely hood of someone bidding the item up just to get a few extra coins. Wheres the problem? [/quote] Shilling is simply not giving your item away. The normal, and correct way is to have a start price of your reserve. However, if the start price is set too high, then it may attract no bidders, and even no watchers. Shilling falsely shows an item having genuine interest, which may invoke someones interest for that reason. Its all bollox though, as no-one loses out. The item sells to the highest bidder regardless, if it sells to someone's shilling buddy, then no-one pays anything, the seller doesnt let his item go for less than he wants, and no-one gets ripped off. I disagree with it entirely, but i don't get why some folk have such an objection. Its an auction, if you make the highest bid, you win, regardless of shilling. I just don't understand why sellers do it, if your reserve is £300, advertise it at £350 BIN with offers, that way you find the true value, if the highest offer you receive is £250, then thats its value at that given time. It's not brain surgery.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1335980391' post='1639065'] Cancelled bids and such show up on their profile. Ebay get negi about it after a while. [/quote] Didn't mention cancelled bids, that's different alltogether, and is nowt to do with shill bidding.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1335976412' post='1638936'] So they can be bothered to do all that, when can't be bothered to type in some numbers to start price and reserve? An you assume this all happens every auction, to the extent you act in accordance with that assumption every time? Do you then send them messages saying 'I forgot to bi last minute'? [/quote] I assume the 'you' wasn't aimed at me? I dont do this, but I know it happens, you can see the patterns. I've also had auctions cancelled on me, so know its an almost instant procedure to cancel, and get fee's refunded immediately. Its no hassle for the seller, and acts as a feeler really. I agree though, just state your price, or put a reserve, and auction the damn thing. All my auctions either start at 99p, or have a BIN.

To be honest, I have no willpower at all, which is not a good thing. On many occasions, I've paid more than I wanted, not hugely mind, during the last 5 minutes, simply because I don't want the other 'bastard' to get it!! "How dare you outbid me at the last moment, I'll show you!!", of course he has the last laugh, knowing he's probably got me to pay over the odds. I usually bid on rare items though, that rarely turn up, and wouldnt do it on a readily available item, so despite the fact I may have paid a little more than I intended, I usually get the item, which is always the intention, otherwise why bother. I enjoy the game though, and know it to be such, so no biggy. I'm a seasoned auctionee. The sensible thing to do of course, is when you first see the item you want, enter your maximum bid, wait until the auction ends, and see if you won it (This is what I do when on holiday, and thus detached from the interweb). This of course is sensible, and extremely dull, and takes all the fun out of the bidding process....for me anyway. It must be said, that eBay is all about the last 45 seconds!!

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1335965946' post='1638729'] If they are shilling, then congrats they just paid Ebay 10% of their made up price for nothing. [/quote] In that case, they simply contact the 'buyer', and agree not to proceed with a transcation, as long as the buyer agree's, then the sellers listing fee's, and selling fee's are all refunded. Assuming they are in collaboration, then its easy, and no fee's are incurred. Its an on-line form on the drop down menu that gets sent to both parties. The seller then has the experience of knowing what the item is likely to achieve at auction, prior to deciding to re-list (Normally "due to timewaster"), or not.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1335962385' post='1638642'] If you're worried about not getting a good enough price then start your auction at the minimum price you will accept. There seems to be free listing every other weekend these days so there's no excuse. [/quote] Takes all the 'fun' out of it though!!

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1335940908' post='1638235'] It's swings and roundabouts. I recently pulled my Parker Fly bass from ebay as I was offered a very good price for it by an ebayer; subsequently when I ended the listing he went cold and backed out of the deal. However, an Ibanez bass that I had listed same day I left to run, despite some interest but not great bidding it went for £150 more than I had offered it to somebody on here for! I have to confess that I will not show my hand on a bass that I am interested in until the last seconds... we all have our own ways of doing things but I prefer to pay as little as possible! I should qualify the above; if you/everyone bids early on a bass it can and does induce certain types of people to revise their bids up even though they have set a maximum (they psychologically have taken ownership of the bass and don't want anyone to get it). However if you don't reveal interest in a bass, the type of person mentioned previously, doesn't feel compelled to rethink their price as they remain confident that they will get ownership at the amount that they put in. It's all 'headology' in the world of auctions/buying/selling! [/quote] This. the risk of leaving until last day etc, is that with 12 hours and 5 minutes to go, if the seller thinks the price is crap, he can end it, and sell it another way, or decide to keep it. I've lost out on a few things with that, at which point you wished you'd put a sensible bid in earlier. For the most part though, last 5 mins is what most people do, right or wrong.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1335888765' post='1637612'] $10,000, not £10,000 (not that it matters much to me. Just sayin'...). [/quote] This had a buy now of the equivalent of £10,000, once bids started the BIN option disappeared. It's now at $10000ish, good price if it stays like that for someone (Not the seller).

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1335799374' post='1636197'] Phew I thought I'd gone bonkers everyone going on about decals and the like... even the mighty Rick neglected to add what I'd already said to his list of obvious faux pas. [/quote] I didn't mention it because you'd already said it, well spotted too! 'Mighty Rick'??

And I thought this was a sadly mutilated neck!! Actually, this is a shame, because its otherwise a lovely neck, flush truss rod, nice decal, frets and board, and then.......oh dear. [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170830999755?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_14196wt_1185"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170830999755?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649#ht_14196wt_1185[/url]

Lovely clip, nice one.

This looks like an Encore to me, with a repro '69 neckplate, and appalling decal. This is at £225 at the moment, already £125 more than its worth. Tuners and string tree are real cheap, and look at that sunburst....fender sunburst...errr...No. The pickguard is also the wrong shape (Apart from the wrong colour), its too wide around the control plate, and too rounded on the top section above the fret board. Soooo wrong. Avoid. Someones gonna get hurt.

Truss rod access at the headstock? Look no further, but the £5 tuners, and £2 string tree also give it away. Its an £80 bass, as stated above. Body looks quite nice though, with a 60's reissue Jazz neck, would be a nice LPB looker.

[quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1335515065' post='1632339'] seems they shrunk the scratchplate to fit the contoured round edges on the horns of the 54 Precisions. the reisuue plates are for slab 51's and cant be modified as the screw holes are too near the edge, BUGGA so, can anyone on here make me one? [/quote] This is correct. I'm told the Fender Squier Mike Dirnt bass has a blackguard, that fits the contour body, like this (This ones a B/W/B, but you could shop around for a single ply?); [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-B-pickguard-fits-Mike-Dirnt-Signature-Fender-P-bass-/250977885691?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3a6f729dfb#ht_620wt_1185"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-B-pickguard-fits-Mike-Dirnt-Signature-Fender-P-bass-/250977885691?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item3a6f729dfb#ht_620wt_1185[/url]

Simply lovely (Not the hideous strap!).

[quote name='Bassman Rich' timestamp='1335537186' post='1632842'] Thanks again guys, however due to a family illness, this is going on the back burner for a while. Best wishes to all Rich [/quote] Sorry to hear that fella, hope things improve for you.

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1335534531' post='1632790'] I do that when I'm practising - facing the corner. [/quote] Is that because you're made to?