Bilbo

Sorry (and I am not being aggressive or confrontational here ) but that sounds like a justification. The levels of creativity required to re-arrange a cover so it is different but still recognisable are real (remember the Yes version of Paul Simon's 'America'?) but re-arrangements of that level of sophistication are relatively rare. Being blunt, I hear very few even remotely creative 'versions' in any of the 4/5 covers bands I play in/dep for. The only 'creative' bits are the bits where noone knows what to do with the instrumental bridge where the original features a horn section. Its a bit like saying 'every burger is different. I try to ensure that the burger is cooked to the customers exacting requirements, adding the appropriate amount of lettuce or gherkin to each dish with a clear intention to achieve culinary excellence. Some people think this is easy'!

[quote name='tauzero' post='229565' date='Jun 30 2008, 11:24 AM']Sinead O'Connor didn't write "Nothing compares 2 U", Prince did. So she's just an uncreative hack. Mott the Hoople didn't write "All the young dudes", David Bowie did. So they're just uncreative hacks. Patti Smith didn't write "Because the night", Bruce Springsteen did. So she's just an uncreative hack.[/quote] Hardly the point, is it? Doing a cover when you write most of your own stuff is completely different to doing only ever doing covers. Doing covers that everyone else also does all of the time places people well into the realms of uncreative hackdom. I did a gig on Saturday, best paid one in a month. 'I Will Survive'; 'Angels'; 'Signed, Sealed Delivered' - all the hits. Professional? Yes. Competent? Yes. Creative? - in no way whatsoever. It's the MacDonaldisation of music. Do you want fries with that?

[quote name='Paul Cooke' post='227234' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:47 AM']of course not... it's because punk is angry music and you can't dance to it... well, there's only two dances, the Pogo and the other "dance" consisted of running full tilt into the center of the crowd... people don't want punk at functions... punk is for the kids in sweaty little dives that stink of pee... where they can go and be "different"... and escape from the "normals".[/quote] Punk wasn't just about that - it was about saying why? It was about questioning the status quo. It made people realise that music mattered again, for different reasons than in the 60s and early 70s but that it could make a difference. It impacted on our whole culture; news, comedy, art, dance, photography, sculpture. I didn't like the music and still don't but the fact that people gave a s***, said No to racism and sexism, starting questioning their leaders was groundbreaking. But mediocrity always rises to the surface when people stop thinking or caring.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227218' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:31 AM']OK fair play [i]that's[/i] artistic integrity along with some f***ing serious grooving,[/quote] Isn't it!!! I last saw DH with his Eubanks/Coleman/Smith line-up and loved it but this new band is monster - I am assuming that was Nate Smith on the video (i don't think it was Kilson but I could be wrong). I put 6 DH cds onto my MP3 player last week and am loving it (I think I have about 64 cds with DH on, the only person I have more of is Paul Chambers and that's only because I am researching his story for a book). Dave Holland is just SOOOO in there.

Buy a pub

[quote name='crez5150' post='227181' date='Jun 26 2008, 10:58 AM']You can always say no.....[/quote] That as never been my point. My point is why do we all (collectively) collude in this nonsense - its not the money because the punters would pay that for any covers band. My point is why THOSE covers again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again (isn't that a Quo tune?). S'laziness.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='227189' date='Jun 26 2008, 11:10 AM']get me £500 and expenses and I'll do it for you *Jake is considering offering a dep service for bass players that wish to retain their artistic integrity*[/quote] If that was the fee, Jake, I'd do it naked... As for your second point, I offer you THIS [url="http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU"]http://youtube.com/watch?v=g6R0GjY3agU[/url]

[quote name='ianrunci' post='226904' date='Jun 25 2008, 08:17 PM']yeah but you can only enjoy it if you like it. Talking of Chick Corea a friend of mine played with him. He's a guitar player called Jamie Glaser, he's played with all the greats, he's a brilliant player, used to give me lessons over MSN messenger a couple of years ago[/quote] Didn't he work with Jean Luc Ponty? I recall he had an Ibanez Artist guitar. I remember becasue I had the same one (let it go and have regretted it ever since).

I just got callled to do a gig with a 'new' function band. Here's the set list: Son Of A Presacher Man Lady Marmalade That's The Way I Like It Billie Jean Valerie Young Hearts Street Life Blame It On The Boogie For Once In MY Life I Will Survive I Wish Superstition Midnight At The Oasis Play That Funky Music You Might Need Somebody Moondance Somebody Else's Guy Sweet Love WalkingOn Sunshine Dancing In The Street Get Ready I Feel Good Knock On Wood Midnight Hour Proud Mary Reach Out (I'll Be There) Let's Stay Together and, yes, you guessed it, Mustang Sally. Its like Punk never happened. :wacko: Why do I bother?

PM'd What I have learned from playing this stuff is that the Latin American music scene in the widest sense is like the occidental music scene - Latin music consists of as many genres as a western music. We all know (or think we know) Bossa Nova, samba and salsa. But there are hundreds of sub-genres. Argentinan Tango (which I love), Brazillian Axe (pronounced 'ashay'), pagode, baiao, samba duro, guaguanco, Cuban son, merengue, songo, mambo, Timba, bolero, charanga, cha cha cha, Mangue Beat, Lundu, Afoxê, Carimbo, Maxixe even Lambada ... the list goes on and on and on. It really is a lifetimes work to study this stuff. But don't let that put you off - some of this sh*t is fantastic! Los Angeles 'Ozomatli' are great fun (plenty on Youtube but some of it is moving into hip-hop territory). Brazil's Gilberto Gil (there is a great DVD called 'Acoustico' that is affordable on Amazon Marketplace -Arthur Maia on acoustic bass guitar) Astor Piazolla - anything he did is magic! You HAVE to listen to Cachao or Buena Vista although., be warned, Cubans don't like the BVSC as hey think it is misrepresenting Cuban music and is, in their eyes, old fashioned (like Diana Krall or Stacy Keny as a representative of comtemporary jazz) Other great Brazillian artists I like include Marisa Monte, Maria Bethânia (great voice) singer/songwriters Chico Buarque, Milton Nascimento, Caetano Veloso (Maria Bethania's brother), Ivan Lins, Djavan (great songs), João Bosco, Aderbal Duarte. There are also the Latin Jazz people - Airto Moriera, Flora Purim, Hermeto Pascoal, Machito, Ray Barretto, Michel Camilo (already mentioned), Egberto Gismonti and 1970s Chick Corea. There are also popular acts like Falamansa who are great fun although a bit one dimensional. And then, not Latin but often seen in a similar light, there's Nuevo Flamenco from Spain - that's a whole new world altogether! There is so much stuff out there for people to enjoy. Cover bands? Humbug!!

[quote name='bass_ferret' post='226117' date='Jun 24 2008, 07:06 PM']Have you seen the EBS NeoGorm?[/quote] Nope - I don't get out much - what with a day job, gigs and writing a book, I can't find time to travel to London to try out gear I can't afford

I will downsize as soon as I can find an amp that delivers like my Metro and doesn't cost 4x the price. There are times when I HATE that amp but they are not when I am making music on it. So I lift it. As a jazzer, I am surrounded by pianists and guitar players who get the smallest gear they can and don't care that it sounds like s***. Like the tenor sax players with £4K of Selmer Mk VI going though an SM58 and a PA the size of a box of washing powder - whaddayaknow - it sucks! Compromise your sound and you compromise on the whole deal.

[quote name='Mikey D' post='225313' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:58 PM']Wasn't Sammy Nestico originally a bassist?! He's probably composed more than most.[/quote] Trombone. Most of his stuff is arranging rather than composing but, yes, he did that too, very prolifically.

[quote name='Mikey D' post='225313' date='Jun 23 2008, 07:58 PM']Bilbo...no Steve Swallow! Shame on you.[/quote] The irony is I am thinking of starting a Steve Swallow Tribute band - commercial suicide but that's jazz....

Do it all. Contact promoters, venues, other bands, festivals, local music press, local radio - just keep going, banging on doors and making sure people don't forget you are there. There is only one way to get there TENACITY!!!

Rotosound Solo Bass (groundwounds - 22 years and still minimal fretwear)

It's taken me 28!

Cool - Ron Carter once said something about 'free' bassplaying along the lines of 'no thanks. I don't want to be free'. He considered the infinite choices available in that context to be disabling. Like its the frame that defines the artwork and, without it, it has no boundaries and is just so much paint. My own studies of composition have revealed that one of my problems, one of the barriers to my producing anything of value, is my overwhelming desire to complicate things, to look for complex harmonies, melodies and rhythms; in short, to be 'clever'. By breaking stuff down into diatonic sequences and consciously limiting note choices, I was immediately able to write better tunes. Simple melodies, simple tunes. Then, by starting to build things up from there, progress has become possible. Your point is essentially about learning to walk before you try running. I think that applies equally to both craft and art. Good point well made.

This one is at the GAllery in Camden for £1400 (no, its not mine). Real looker. [url="http://www.thebassgallery.com/seijazz5quilt.html"]http://www.thebassgallery.com/seijazz5quilt.html[/url]

[quote name='Galilee' post='222917' date='Jun 20 2008, 01:45 PM']it begins to affect my brain, in the same way that repeating the same word over and over until it no longer makes sense does.[/quote] I'm gonna try that now, now now, now, now, now, now now, now, now, now, now now, now, now, now, now now, now, now, now, now now, now, now

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='222791' date='Jun 20 2008, 11:52 AM']That's it!! I have clocked it now. If I have a Fodera, I can play exactly like Victor Wooten![/quote] It's always a temptation, isn't it? But your musical persona is a lot more than your bass; it is you bass, your amps, your fingers, your head, your heart, your choices.... I fancy a Fodera too (AJ Presentation but fretless?) but have never played one! I guess I am falling for the hype as well (although Jake's turned my head with his Alembic!!). Fortunately, I can't possibly afford one so I'll stick to my Wal....

Ref AndyMartin's point. But one tosser doesn't change the fact that the levels of creativity possible in a context where the music is being created not replicated or approximated are greater. Just as a couple of great and highly original arrangements of popular songs doesn't excuse the fact that most bands doing covers are reprising the same old same old. I can only report on what I see and that is most covers bands are not hot-beds of original thought.

[quote name='mcgraham' post='222752' date='Jun 20 2008, 11:15 AM']You are responsible for being creative and imaginative. Yes, I acknowledge some environments are easier to be creative in than others, so doesn't that mean if you can thrive in a restrictive environment, then your creative ability will prosper in an unrestricted one.[/quote] Possibly. Good point.

A few points in response: Whilst I can readily accept that I am capable of talking bollocks (it's part of the human condition), it does seem that anyone here who seeks to take a considered and reasonably intelligent approach to issues of any kind is quickly accused of being arrogant, self-righteous, elitist, superior etc. We are all just trying to make sense of it all. Being told that things that are being said, whether by me or anyone else, are 'b******s' is not contributing to the debate but debasing and serves only to stifle it. How creative is [i]that[/i]? Thisnameistaken's decription of covers bands as as retirement homes for former musicians is a delight and will be quoted often in sleepy Suffolk Remembering why I play is why I am getting increasingly saddened by this covers/tribute culture. I don't play to 'have fun' although having fun is a common consequence of playing music. If I want to 'have fun' there are 1,000 other things I could do that would cost less money and require substantively less investment in terms of time and effort. I DIDN'T start to play because I wanted to be in a covers band. I started because I like music. As I have played it now for 28 years or so, I have come to realise that certain aspect of the making of music are more satisfying than others. Regurgitating covers is, for me, one of the least satisfying aspects of musiking and amounts to the aestheic equivalent doing jigsaw puzzles or painting by numbers. I find it undermines creativity because it numbs the senses and stifles the flow of ideas. Finally, we say 'here [i]is[/i] my twopenn'th' as it is an abbreviation of 'here is my twopenny's-worth' (the worth of two pennys) as opposed to 'here [u]are[/u] my two pennys'. Now I really AM talking b******s.

Trumpet? Chromonica? French Horn (one hand possibly but maybe not one arm)? Tuba? Didgeridoo? Euphonium? Eb horn? Composing music on a computer for playback or composing using a DAW music or Sibelius for others to play? Various percussion instruments? Synth? Slide guitar (same as French Horn although there is a slide player out there with [i]no[/i] hands who plays slide with his feet - its on Youtube somewhere). And, as was said, the voice, the most sophisticated instrument of all. A life in music is not determined by the number of arms/hands/digits you have but by your passion and ingenuity. The only barrier to a fulfilling and rewarding life as a player and musician would be your mind.