Bilbo

[quote name='P-T-P' post='211832' date='Jun 3 2008, 02:55 PM']...which subjectively hints that you consider your opinion to be a little more than simply a personal perspective and more an absolute truth applicable to all. Hopefully that's not the case, or if it is, you'll need to practise harder at avoiding those kind of slip-ups before your plan for world domination will be a success! You're talking about your "creative" playing as being original in the sense that it came from within you, of the moment, derived from influences etc. but then criticise a perfectly good lyric. The subject matter may be as old as the hills, but the fact is, no one had ever expressed the boy meets girl story in the way that lyric does. The writer, in the moment, from within, etc. Ring any bells? You're unjustifiably attaching more importance to what you're doing, even if you're not making a direct link from one to the other. That's where opinion slips into pretension.[/quote] All perfectly valid points. My use of 'you' as opposed to I 'is' is, as you correctly point out, grammatically incorrect - I should probably have said 'if [b]one[/b] plays too many etc' but, culturally, I would be unlikely to use that term, like. Re: criticising bubblegum lyrics - it was a dig at tBBC, a mischievious joke, a bit of banter! Hence the emocion. (Still don't like those lyrics, tho') Re my opinions slipping into pretension - that's where they like to spend most of their free time. Hence my plan for world domination In terms of attaching more importance to what I am doing, it is it's importance to ME that I am referring to - isn't that what integrity is? My best gigs are always in front of the smallest audiences (but not beacuse they are the smallest audiences). Ellis Marsalis once said to Wynton 'If you play for applause, that's all you'll ever get'. God, my life is complicated.

Integrity is, by its own nature, subjective so I make no apology for having my own perspective on it. I have played with many musicians who are genuinely able to enjoy playing anything equally, whatever the genre, location and band. I don't, not really. It's what I call a shallow victory. I CAN get a basic (bassic) degree of satisfaction out of knocking out a Tower of Power line, or a James Jamerson line or whatever, but its 10% of the satisfaction I get from doing something creative (original in the sense that it came from within me as a consequence of decades of influences, conscious or unconscious, and the muse of the moment as opposed to learning someone elses dots by rote - I do not mean original as in 'never been played before by anyone else in the universe ever' - how can I know that?). Bottom line is, speaking frankly, why have a covers band at all, why not book a disco and play the records? That's what most people do now, isn't it? As for quoting 'Pretty Woman' lyrics, BBC - boy meets girl he fancies and she fancies him right back? - WOW!! Now THAT's original!!

[quote name='P-T-P' post='211706' date='Jun 3 2008, 12:20 PM']And there, in a few simple words, is the prime key to success in choosing songs for a covers/function band. A full dance floor makes such a difference to the band's perspective on the songs they do. Even the most done to death and/or cheesiest numbers become enjoyable if the punters are lapping it up. It also helps if you're a fan of songs. Just because something like Pretty Woman gets butchered up and down the country hundreds of times a week, it doesn't take away the fact that it's a great song. If you play a song like you have to play it 'cause it's what the punters want, you're just a butcher. If you can tap into the song in some way though - the groove, the soul, the spirit, the mood etc. - you're going to help make it fresh again and get so much more enjoyment from playing it. When all's said and done, a live band is at it's peak when making a connection with their audience. Are the audience there specifically to see you? If so, congratulations you're doing something right and don't need to be reading this. More likely for most of us though is that most of the audience is there either because that's where they and their friends always are on a Saturday (Thursday, whatever) night or because they happen to be attending the function you're playing at. They're (hopefully) there to have a good time and the fact your band is there is, at the outset, not of great importance to them but most will happily open the door to the possibility of you entertaining them. If there's an area for dancing, as there surely will be, there's your meal ticket. It's a bit simplistic but if you play songs that make the girls want to dance, the girls will have a good time. If the girls are having a good time, the guys will have a good time. And if, at the end of the night, you play "Lady in Red" and there's couples melting into each other everywhere you look, you've helped make that happen. Whatever they are feeling is, in that moment at least, real. And as every note you play intertwines with what they are feeling, you become part of that moment too. You can't tell me there's no integrity in that.[/quote] Can't argue with this but that's not the point, for me anyway. If I could write a book, one book in my life, would it be Jeffrey Archers 'Cain and Abel'? No it wouldn't. It would be something profound, of lasting value, something I could be proud of as a piece of art. Playing in covers bands (and I do) is low input, (aesthetically) low return stuff. Its the difference between making high quality, hand crafted furniture and knocking up an IKEA flatpack. It has its place, as lots of people have said here, but, in my experience, as a jazzer, I find that too much of this bubble-gum stuff takes the edge of your 'proper' art. When I do a jazz gig, I need to be listening and responding VERY quickly to the stimulae around me and I need to execute considerably more sophisticated lines in real time. With most covers bands, you can effectively coast for the whole evening (and still play killer grooves). I find that, if you do too many 'lightweight' gigs, when you go back to the more cerebral music, you feel stale, sluggish even, and it takes a while to get into 'the zone' again. Your brain just slows down. The problem is, does the proliferation of low brow gigs undermine our collective potential to excell? I think it does. If I had absolute integrity, because of my stated position as outlined here, I would knock these commercial gigs on the head and focus my energies on the music I have a passion for. But I don't because, if I did that, I would do about 1/3 of the gigs I currently do. Its a dilemma I wish I didn't have to live with but I do. I guess that means I lack integrity. PS for my money, musicians in the LSO playing Tchaikovsky for 1,000th time DO lack integrity and 'Pretty Woman' is NOT a great song, harmonically, melodically, rhythmically or culturally

Then Zappa rocks!

[quote name='crez5150' post='209626' date='May 30 2008, 02:21 PM']Function bands are there to play to the audience.... the audience want to hear songs they know and love.....[/quote] D'ya think? In my experience, this is what the bookers and bandleaders BELIEVE but is not necessarily what the audience want. What they usually want is to dance. A really grooving band can play almost anything as long as it has a back beat and drive. The endless piles of sh*te that most function bands play (including, if not especially, my own) are swallowed wholesale by the punters who, as a collective, love everything, however bad. One of the bands I occasionally do gigs with (£120 etc) are awful but the testimonials they get are glowing (I do the gigs as I like the people (and the money) but they are awful). The problem I have with function bands, frankly, is that, despite the fact that they have 100 years of hits to choose from, they all chose the same old b******s. Chaka Khan's 'Ain't Nobody' (all beat and no groove), 'Mustang Sally', 'Angels', the aforementioned 'Lady In Red', 'Killing Me Softly' - you know EXACTLY what I mean. This isn't about what the punters want. This is about doing the thing as superficially as possible and still getting away with it. Two rehearsals and you're gigging because you've all done it 1,000 times before. If it doesn't change soon, the music industry deserves to die.....

Fourths and minor sevenths do present another problem in terms in fretless playing and intonation. Using the one finger per fret model is not as simple because your fingers are actually NEVER straight across the neck particularly at the lower end of teh neck (they are simply incpapable of being so, physiologically speaking) so you have to make subtle adjustments every time you move a note. I think, though, in a nutshell, you just need to stick with it, keep practising the changes you are looking at and develop a personal approach to the issue that lets you find a way to fluently execute your ideas using these intervals. As someone above said, theories advocated by Bailey, Berlin or anyone else are guidance and shouldn't be taken as gospel. As much as anything, there is the limitations of the written word. What is written in these books is often incomprehensilbe if you don't know what they are trying to say! I always find they make sense after I have already worked out the thing they are talking about!

Pete did a dep for me for a Latin in Ipswich earlier this year and delivered. The bandleader has tried to book him again since but he was busy so they got another bloke who just couldn't handle it. Bearing in mind that, when he got to the gig at 10 p.m., Pete had never played that kind of music before, credit has to be given for his sharp ears. He's now our first call dep for that (weekly) gig - even if he doesn't know it.

I think there is another factor in that many of the early exponents of the wonder of Wals were fretless players; Percy Jones, John Giblin, Mick Karn etc. For a LONG time in teh late 70s and 80s, Wal was THE fretless bass to have - still is for me. I have never played a fretless I like more than my own. Never played a BASS I like more than my Wal, come to think of it.

[quote name='Astronomer' post='209119' date='May 29 2008, 07:27 PM']Eventually she said, "I know you come up here and play bass, but I never realised you were a musician."[/quote] Don't be silly - you can't do both....

Your question is a bit like 'do you need spelling, grammer or language to tell a story'? You need them all and more. Most of all you need ideas and a context. Chord tones and scales give you both but you need to experiment to make sense of it. If you just used chord tones, you would need a lost of chordal movement to maintain interest. If just used a scale, you would need a sense of melody like a raga player to pull it off indefinately. You need a comprehension of both to make sense of it all. And then, when you understand all that s***, you just forget it and play. S'easy really..... In an nutshell, music is made of harmony, melody, rhythm and dynamics (I like to add silence to the list). Control them all and you are in heaven. Leave out harmony and you are in Asia, leave out rhythm and you are in Europe, leave out melody and you are in Sepulchre . Leave out silence and you might as well be on a train.....

I have been trying to play Charlie Parker's 'Passport' for the last 20 years. I never seem to get it to phrase properly. Soloing over the changes is relatively easy, its the head that still sounds wooden. I keep recording it but, to date, no joy.

And thereby hangs the problem. The question you are asking is that to which the greatest musicans in the history of the art form have focussed their individual and collective minds. You are asking for the Holy Grail to be sent to you Recorded Delivery. The only strategy is years of trial and error. Transcribing other peoples solos, preferably NOT bass players, will give you insights but, to sum it up simply, your choices of what constitutes a musical idea is yours and yours alone. Mine will be different. That's why all musicians are different. You make it musical using your experience as a listener and player and, gradually, over time, your ideas formulate and become coherent and carry their own form of internal logical. If you practice hard, your ideas will begin to appear. If you practice really hard, they will be good ideas, appreciated by other listeners. If you practice hard forever, you may have ideas that move other people and that amount to a voice of your own. Remember - its the journey that matters, not the destination.

Have you heard 'No Quarter'? Seriously, tho'. I have written elsewhere of why I think people get into more sophisticated genres. You just get bored with the predictability of simpler music forms. I still have a soft spot for HM but it is based on nostalgia and the genre holds few surprises for me, especially bass-wise. So I have, over a long time, looked for other things to get excited about and jazz forms a substantial part of that - although even I am bored of the head-solos-head formats that are a central theme of several of its sub-genres (hard-bop etc). Jazz is best when someone is taking chances! Same with most music, I guess.

NWOBHM B listers 'No Quarter' - featured on 'Heavy Metal Heroes Volume Two' and a Friday Rock Show Session in '82. One 12 inch EP, Survivors, now goes for £40 on the internet. My 15 mintes of fame.

Yik!

I use Duracel simply because I find that, when they die, they die quickly. So, rather than have a gradual and undiscernable deterioration in the quality of the signal that results in you fiddling with your eq, it quickly deteriorates into a hideous buzz that screams 'change the battery now'. I do like a bit of clarity.

I would leave the bass alone for a couple of days and probably the computer keyboard too! Rest.

The flute wasn't a waste of time, mate. She tried it, she learned some stuff about music (reading?, listening, playing in time, bits of theory - there's loads of transferable skills here). She decided she didn't like the flute - could be because she didn't connected with it. Could have been a bad teacher (there are LOADS out there), could be that the teacher only threw classical stuff at her when she wanted to learn more popular music forms, could be that she couldn't identify with the genres she was being introduced to. She may find out later that she does want to play the flute (or saxophone?). There are 1,000s of top notch musicians out there, professional players and celebrity musos alike, who started on one instrument and later changed to another, sometimes several times. Its a journey and many kids don't get the instrument right the first time. It woudl be a shame to ditch the whole idea on the basis of one bad decision. I know its a pisser when you are spending money but, as someone said, you could sell the flute (or play it yourself). The gift of music is priceless and the outlay relatively cheap (what does an ipod cost? Or a weeks holiday?).

Paula Gardiner, Gill Alexander, Melissa Slocum, Chi CHi Nwanoku (principle Double Bassist with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment), Miranda Sykes, Antonella Mazza..... I could go on - some of these pop bassists are a bit weak when looked at alongside some of the jazz and classical double bass players listed here. There are hundreds of quality female double bassists that could knock these 'celebrity' bassists into a cocked hat. The world of music is broader than you think!

Just got a listen to him on his website. Am loving it and just ordered a cd off Amazon (£5). I have, for a long time now, enjoyed neuvo flamenco so this is not new territory. But his is just a beautiful sound and it has got me wishing I could play that instrument (see previous posts about why I can't).

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='201628' date='May 18 2008, 05:54 PM']Ref: the original clip. I managed to sit through it twice. Although I can't say I enjoyed or liked it, its much better than most. I can see the guys talent and I can [i]almost[/i] tap my foot to some of it. And that for me is a giant leap. I'm off to drown myself in a shallow bath.[/quote] Keep at it,my son! You'll get there in then end!!

But I like the tin foil hat....

And another under represented gem of a player - Marc Johnson. His sound was one of the first double bass sounds I could recognise immediately. Still love his Bass Desires stuff .... [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ML3Pj5AijY&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ML3Pj5AijY...feature=related[/url] Listen to Frissel's solo! Saw him with John Taylor a few years ago and his sound was superb. His bowed solos are some of the most beautiful in jazz.

No probs, Jase. I saw this one myself but didn't really like it (I am not a Clarke fan - I find him clunky, always have!!)

[quote name='chardbass' post='201313' date='May 18 2008, 12:03 AM']Jeff Berlin and his Dean bass.[/quote] They do suck a bit, don't they? I understand Mike Stern (guitarist) has the worst gear possible but makes it sound fantastic.