Bilbo

There is another post called 'Function Band vs Integrity Ramblings' that covers much of this but I agree with you. I justr read this in a book called 'Consdiering Genius' by Stanley Crouch, a leading Black American writer on aesthetics. [i]'Only the catatonic are incapable of feeling, but what separates the artist from others is more than the nature of his or her passion; it is the skill that allows an interior human feeling to move all the way out into the world as an objective artifact, replete with the synthesis of technical mastery and expression that makes for all living, as opposed to academic, art. Taste and opinion are always individual – or should be – and every writer will prefer certain styles, instrumentalists, singers and composers over others. What is essential, however, is integrity, an integrity based upon as clear a perception of the identity of the art as possible'[/i]. I think what you are describing is a very real risk in approaching the art form as a craft rather than as an art. There is, in my mind, an inherent risk in simply [i]rendering[/i] music instead of [i]making[/i] it. The mental process required to [i]create[/i] ideas as opposed to [i]mimic [/i] them is like a muscle you need to exercise. The skill Crouch speaks of is the muscle I am referring to. If you don't exercise it, it weakens. You gradually start to function more as an automaton and gradually lose the capacity to create in real time. Your choice to enter a covers band is entirely defensible but it carries a health warning. Keep your eyes on the prize. To paraphrase Ellis Marsalis, if you play for money or applause, that's all you will ever get. You are perfectly entitled to play in a covers bnad but I believe that you need to make sure you concurrently maintain a creative outlet that allows you to keep your ears and your [i]mind[/i] sharp.

Looks great. Don't you wish there was one place where you could go and try out all these beautiful instruments. I have only ever SEEN one Alembic never mind played one. Same with Fodera.

Me too. Never done it any differently. The Gary Willis technique OTPJ mentions is astonishing and it is hard to argue with its efficacy (his improvised lines are profoundly sophisticated and his technique impeccable) but I have to say that, despite loving some of the early Tribal Tech stuff (Spears particularly), I have grown to loath his fundamental [i]sound[/i] (very processed and 'digital' ). What I don't really know is the relationship between his technique (using a soft touch as I recall) and his tone.

Fretless rools, fretted drools. Welcome.....

[quote name='barneyg42' post='220170' date='Jun 16 2008, 07:57 PM']Kim Mitchell[/quote] He rocks. Have you heard 'Itch'? Fantastic!

I change my strings every 6 years or so so I assume I don't sweat at all. I guess my mother never told me I was an android. Thinking about it, tho', I guess that, because I play COOOOOOOOL jazz, I wouldn't sweat, would I? That and the root vegetable therapy

If it sounds like Jimmy Johnson's, it's fine with me!

[quote name='Huggy and the Bears' post='219824' date='Jun 16 2008, 01:31 PM']Doing covers makes live music more accessible to the public in the same way that the people that can't get to go and see the Mona Lisa, can enjoy a print of it from the local picture shop. You could argue that the print has no integrity along with the people that produce it, however, the shop keeper (whilst not an original artist) does his job in the process well along with probably the factory workers who printed the picture. They may be budding artists at some stage of the evolutionary process but don't have the skills to paint an original picture as grand as the Mona Lisa.[/quote] I was always an admirer of Hieronymous Bosch - had seen his prints and posters in all sorts of places. I thought his work was great. Then, one day, I visited Petersfield and got to see a genuine Bosch triptych. It was stunning. More to the point, however, I became aware of how inadequate much of the literature is at presenting images of paintings i.e. the plates showing pictures in books are literally a pale imitation of the original and seeing any picture in books has since come a poor second to experiencing the real McCoy in galleries. Once you know that, the books don't work anymore. Now music is completely different. You CAN access the original, as a digital recording (I know we could split hairs about recorded sound vs. acoustic but that's an argument for another day). So why should hearing 'Alright Now' played (especially sung) really badly work for anyone? If they love it that much (and they usually don't), then listen to it at home or go see Bad Company (I auditioned for them once, by the way ). Give the gig to the kids who trying to be the NEXT Bad Company!!! I guess my intimacy with music has created a situation where because I know that there is more out there, it is getting increasingly difficult to share any passion for the forgeries. You know, I would really love to get a knockback from a jazz gig because the venue only booked original bands.

[quote name='jakesbass' post='219643' date='Jun 16 2008, 09:28 AM']Loads of stuff, but really into Rickie Lee Jones 1st album and Kenny Wheeler 'Angel Song' Willie weeks and Dave Holland respectively.[/quote] Got Wheeler's 'A Long TIme Ago' on my player in work - learning to love it (Wheeler, John Taylor, John Parricelli and 9 brass - no drums or bass so very 'brassy'). Also, I just got hold of that James Taylor dvd 'Live at the Beacon Theatre' - after your recommendation in an earlier post of this kind, Jake. Really great. Just got Dave Holland's 'Critical Mass', Andrew Hill's 'Black Fire' and 'Three For All - We Three' by Dave Liebman, Steve Swallow and Adam Nussbaum. Grrrrrrreat! Nussbaum is underated

[quote name='kennyrodg' post='219601' date='Jun 16 2008, 07:55 AM']Love Ballad by George Benson [/quote] There is a great live video of this on YouTube - can't do a link from work so you'll have to find it yourself!

Its the only bass I have practised on for 22 years. :wub:

Great basses in principle but I think you should play it before you buy (never one to shy away from stating the abvious, me). I find Warwick necks to be relatively bulky and don't like them very much but it's a marmite thing and they sound perfectly credible.

I think you point is very erudite and I completely understand your position. I don't think our actual positions are that far apart. Remember, I do play in covers bands - in fact, if you consider jazz standards to be covers, which, for the sake of this argument, I do, then ALL of my work is with covers bands. And I don't despise it. I don't despise the audiences at functions and I don't despise the musicians who I play with. I can sometimes get off on a rock shuffle or a funk riff just as much as a swing groove, samba or quaquanco! I just get a bit tired of people sending me cds with tracks on like 'Ain't Nobody' and saying can you learn them for Saturday's wedding. Maybe I should just demand that people write out charts so I don't have to! My music study time is of profound importance to me and I have to steal it whenever I can. I therefore don't want to spend these (increasingly rare) moments learning 'Le Freak' because, in the great scheme of things, it is bubblegum. I can nail that stuff, no problem. but, as I said early on, its a shallow victory. I guess I want more from this enterprise than cheap thrills. I wish I could find that 'inner peace' you clearly have! (I've had an idea for another book - Zen and the Art of Tribute Bands!! )

I have visited this forum before. That article is a great read and that bass is a credit to all involved. I wonder what it sounds like?

It is unquestionably the case that many musicians doing covers are better PLAYERS (technically) than many of the players in original bands (most of us here could probably outplay Lemmy on a basket of skills). They are potentially more rounded, versatile, educated in the panolpy of genres required etc. But we are not comparing like with like. The problem with music and musicians is that there is a tendency to view all music as part of the same thing, even to consider one genre to be a 'progression' from another (blues to jazz, dixieland to modern, rock to metal, pop to indie etc). This can result in a sense that musicians who commit to an 'earlier' form of the music are, in some way, inferior to the exponents of the newer genres. There is also the tendency to consider a more 'versatile' musician to be a 'better' musician, despite the fact that most of us would never publicly state that music is in any way competitive. This can, in turn, create a sense of hierarchy that places certain aspects of the world of music above others; creativity versus professionalism being the one under discussion here. It is therefore perfectly natural for exponents of any area of music to seek to elevate their professional perspective on this art form in an effort to validate it. I think many people here (and I do not judge them for doing so) are doing just that. If, however, you consider the art of music to be something more than a marketabe product, and many of us clearly don't, then, from where I am sitting, it is difficult to see how it is possible to consider the reproduction of the work of others to be anything other than that. A pastiche, a caricature, a mockery. However serious it takes itself ('the worlds leading XXXX tribute band'!!?!! Damned by faint praise or what?), it represents everything that I DIDN't get into music to do. I am sorry if it offends anyone, and it will, but I cannot see covers bands or tribute bands as anything but tired and culturally redundant.

Here'smy old friend... you can look but don't touch (unless you want to...)

Here it is, my mystery 6-string subsequently identified as a Status Energy. I would consider a swap for a credible 5-string but I am a bit choosy and don't want to cut my nose off to spite my face. It was £799 new (Anderton's in Guildford)

I would only spend £4K on TWO cars. Minimum. PS I think its ugly too!

I bought a 4GB MP3 player a couple of months ago from Argos, nothing fancy, just a little USB stick. It will hold hundreds of tracks (500+) so is plenty good enough for me (it is still nowehere near full). iPODs are too expensive for me to even consider them and I can't see me needing to carry around 10,000 tracks. Anyway, the headphones went today so I went to HMV and bought some Sennheiser in-ear phones for £12. WHAM!! - my pissy little 'Amstrad' MP3 player is now a Bose!!! Obviously I knew better headphones would improve the sound but I never realised how much! Coincidentally, the player was in the middle of a John Scofield track when I changed over and Steve Swallow was playing - WHAT A DIFFERENCE! Swallow sounds even better than brilliant. An up-grade for £12. Cool

I guesss from your post you are not based in the UK, Jogi. Am I right? Either way, you are welcome here.

Jazz trio in Bury. We did an original and nobody died.

There are some fantastic quotes around from Charles Mingus complaining about the fact that, as the 'powers that be' can sell anything to anyone, why don't they sell things of artistic quality over shallow nonsense. His guess is that it is because it is easier to recreate the superficial again and again and not to have to rely on the individual muse of a unique artist! People can't dance in 5:4 but I get requests for 'Take Five' at every other jazz gig I do (hate that one as well). I think (and this is a generalisation) that people don't actually know what they want because they don't actually THINK about what they want - most people go to functions not because they want to see a band but because a, the boss or their colleagues expects it or b, they are related to the bride/groom/birthday boy or girl/retiring employee etc. I would be interested in finding out how many people in the audiences at these function gigs actually OWN copies of the tunes being played by the bands on show. I bet its not 20% of them, maximum. I mean, how many people in the audiences at jazz function gigs (with the exception of the jazz clubs) actually KNOW 'All The Things You Are'? I only ever hear it at the gigs I play.... I actually think the most played jazz standards are not the ones people [i]like[/i] but the ones that saxophone players can play easily and with minimal rehearsal (Softly, Canteloupe, So What/Impressions etc). When was the last time anyone called 'Lush Life' or 'Spring Can Really Hang You Up The Most'? So, my point is, if the audience don't OWN any of the tracks we play, how can we say that they LIKE or even PREFER them? I think they just take what we give them fairly passively and are grateful. So why not give them something fresh and original? Of course, there is the point that all of us, as well as being musicians, are also an audience. Every function band I have ever seen moves me not a jot. So who is meeting MY needs as an audience member at a function. I know I am not alone in this and many rock/funk/jazz/folk/classical/world music fans hate covers/function bands as much as I do - do these people never go to functions? Yes they do - they are the ones outside ignoring the band. I actually believe that the function band culture, like the industry of beans and breakfast cereal, is all about generating the most income balanced against investing the least time it takes to develop a product. No shame in that but I think the protestations about 'giving the people what they want' are a justification for that fact. I think most (not all) covers bands operate on a 'good enough' basis and, whilst there is no shame in 'having a good time' when we are playing, quality, integrity and expression of a personal perspective on music have a place too. The ideal is to have a good time doing something of lasting value. 'Professional' is no guarantee of quality - it is only a guarantee that money is changing hands!

[quote name='All thumbs' post='218067' date='Jun 13 2008, 02:56 AM']In fact for me personally I would feel I had lost MY integrity if I had to get a 9-5.[/quote] I actually consciously decided nearly 20 years ago that the function band/ships/cabaret/teaching route was too much of a compromise for me and I would do a day job I believed in first. That was why I started working as a Probation Officer. Some people's lives have changed for the better because of that decision and I feel ok about that. I have always held original music in higher regard than covers (early indoctrination by my bandmates in a HM band in the early 80s) and just find this whole covers thing uncomfortable (you have probably guessed). I don't get that playing in a posh hotel and getting a free sandwich makes playing music that does't inspire me ok... Sean's point about old music is fair but I also fear that we are fast approaching the point where rock music, in all its various forms, is becoming just another nostalgia thing. Its vibrancy was always its currency, its relevance. If we aren't careful, its going to turn into a dead art form like classical music and much of the jazz industry (what are Diana Krall and Stacy Kent if not nostalgia masquerading as art?)

What? And fail the audition?