Bilbo

[quote name='EntropicLqd' post='250003' date='Jul 28 2008, 10:02 PM']When I first started playing I was completely anti any suggestion of learning to read music. It was dull, boring, and I saw it as simply taking time away from playing bass. Now, almost 2 decades on, I am learning music theory and seriously considering learning to read music. Because I've reached the point where it will actually make me a better player. And understanding why some of the stuff I play naturally now sounds right would be useful. So while I sit in the "learn music your own way" camp, I will concede that if I'd had to learn to read music a long time ago (even 15 years ago) I'd definitely be better player than I am now.[/quote] The trouble with instruments like the bass is that people are encouraged to approach it casually and are offered all sorts of short cuts to perceived competence - 'play in a day' books can easily get someone up to playing a song all the way through in a relatively short time frame. Try that with a piano, a bassoon, violin or saxophone. Because of that, learners struggle to see the benefits of investing long hours in proper study. People all around them will start to justify their lack of investment with all sorts of statments about how proper study undermines your instinctive abilities, undermines your ability to play 'with feeling' etc. It is perfectly possible to play in a gigging band without any theory or 'proper' technique so people do. This affirms their 'I don't need to study' mentality and they proceed accordingly until one day, two years in or ten, they start to see the benefits they missed out on. By then, for many people, it is too late and domestic obligations prevent sustained study. I think the most important skill a new player can have is the development of a critical sense that allows them to recognise what is useful information that will help their progress as a player and what isn't. Who is giving you the right information. That way, whatever Jeff Berlin says can be critically analysed and informed decisions about the most appropriate way forward for a developing player can be made. Like most of us, JB can talk sense one minute and unmitigated b******S the next. We need to be able to recognise the difference.

Hello Bob. My name's Bob too! We should start a Club Built by Roberts

I pride myself on being able to swing on the electric (particularly as I grew up listening to the agreed wisdom that it can't be done) - it all depends on the tone and the other musicians. If the drummer and piano/guitar player I am playing with aren't in there, then there's not a lot I can do about it. But if they are in that pocket, I can swing like a swingy thing from Swingtown. Fortunately, most of the players I perform with nowadays are in there and the results are happening.

And Johnny Griffin last Friday.

Find a secondhand Eden Metro - Do it. Now.

And you have the freakiest avatar I have ever seen.... Welcome.

Every third myspace bulletin message I get is from Jeff Berlin seeking the contact details for someone he wants to gain reflected glory from. 'If I can get Andreas Bocelli to record one of my songs, I am made for life'...yeah, right. Just write something without the bass in mind and you've got a chance, Jeff.

Joe Beck was an American guitarist who had been notable in jazz for more than 30 years. Born in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, Beck also briefly flirted with rock music in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Beck played in a variety of jazz mediums, including jazz fusion, post bop, mainstream jazz and soul jazz. He played and recorded with numerous artists, including: Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, Gil Evans, Duke Ellington, Buddy Rich, Paul Desmond, Maynard Ferguson, Woody Herman, Stan Getz, Ali Ryerson, Larry Coryell, Gene Ammons, Sergio Mendez, Antonio Carlos Jobim, Jimmy Bruno, Laura Nyro, Houston Person, Roger Kellaway, Richie Havens, Paul Simon, Joe Farrell, James Brown, David Sanborn and Gato Barbieri. Beck died in Woodbury, Connecticut on 22nd July, due to complications from lung cancer. So why Joe Beck mentioned on a bass fourm? In the early 1970s, Joe entered the hotel room of a double bass player he was working alongside and found him playing a newly acquired electric bass, a Gibson EB-0. He took the bass off the bass player and played it with a plectrum, ripping complex jazz lines and sophisitcated chords out of the instrument. The bass player, impressed at what he had seen Beck accomplish, ditched the double bass and has played the electric ever since and, what's more, he has played it with a plectrum. The bass player was Steve Swallow. Rest in peace, Joe.

STOOOOP before it tooo late.

When I get a chance (at work so no access to YouTube). I did work out Johnson's solo on Metal Fatique (the LP version) years ago - just a perfectly placed little solo - so I will have a listen. Saw JJ with AH in a church in Bristol about 80 years ago. Good gig as I recall. Johnson's highlights are with Wayne (no relation) Johnson tho': Arrowhead, Grasshopper and Everybody is Painting Pictures (Spirit Of The Dancer and Keeping The Dream Alive have a couple of Flim performances but the main events are the first 3 recordings). Bad hair, great sound!

If you can't get a decent set up for that kind of money, you aren't trying....

Did a function in a tin shed and it was HOOOOOOOT! I have never felt so ill - blinding headache, nausea but I still played the gig. When it ended, I collapsed with heat exhaustion. Never felt so ill in my life. Went to bed feeling like s**t, woke up fine. Hardest gig I have ever done.

He's a great player but I find his writing a little 'embryonic'. I think he is still in a learning phase with his writing for horns and can see his ideas are only just starting to develop. Compared to people like Gil Goldstein, Maria Schneider, Django Bates, even Dave Holland etc, his horn writing is relatively simplistic but, hey, he is still developing as a composer. He is clearly highly motivated as both a player and composer and I wish him well. I will be listening.

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='249441' date='Jul 28 2008, 10:55 AM']OK, the $64,000 question is : do you think he's still developing as a player? (I think I can predict the answer)[/quote] Probably - but that's not the issue. I think he is on a fool's errand! He is trying to create music that is marketable by building up a vocabulary using an instrumental voice that is not. His solo bass pieces (Imagine, Tears in Heaven) are difficult to execute but fundamentally bland and pointless (unilke his 'Dixie' which had humour and sophistication). He is putting the execution of each piece before its inherent qualities as a piece of music. Its a kind of 'look, I can play pretty ballads on the bass' without recognising that the performances aren't actually very pretty and that the beauty of the material he is using is in their lyrics and not their melodies. In response to your point, I feel that he is getting better and better at doing the wrong thing!! He needs a good producer.

That's not what I am talking about. I am refering to his stated position on things like metronomes and 'you can't teach groove playing' type stuff. Gary Burton, who I consider to be one of the most competent improvisers in jazz, does advocate for metronome usage and I personally believe you [i]can[/i] work with someone to enhance their groove playing. His thinking on some of these issues is concrete. I have exchanged correspondance with him on some of his views and his responses were astonishing (not offensive in any way but indicative of concrete thinking). I have no doubt that he means well but I find his position on some things to be too inflexible and ill-argued. I do agree with him on TAB tho' - bl***y useless!

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='248977' date='Jul 27 2008, 04:15 PM']Fair enough I guess but to play devils advocate, are you not painting him with your own prejudices against fusion when he's also branched into rock and jazz? I think your points about craft could probably stand on their own merits regardless of style.[/quote] You have to remember that I was a Jeff Berlin devotee in my yoof! I have transcriptions somewhere of some of his bass solos on 'Pump It' and Champions' (my own work) and used to pride myself on my ability to execute some of his solos in real-time. I think Berlin has kind of become a parody of himself. His sound has thinned out in order to allow him to play chordally but he has, as a result, lost a lot of what I liked about his early playing (I particularly love his work on Allan Holdsworth's 'Road Games'). His forays into rock and jazz (and country) are a little embarrasing - he clearly doesn't understand the genres in question and will never make a mark that way as he is not delivering anything with integrity. People (audiences) can see through that kind of superficiality very easily. I want him to do something classy but he keeps delivering pompous self-indulgence. As I said, I want to like his stuff but don't. He is becoming a jack of no trades and master of none. His teaching methods are uncontentious - he is just doing what 1,000s of standard music teachers do. Teaching the dots and basic music theory. Where he irritates me is when he starts talking in absolutes.

[url="http://www.kayona.co.uk/"]http://www.kayona.co.uk/[/url] Watch the dvd - its me selling out!

I had heard but have no idea why. Anyone know any details? He wasn't that old, was he?

No irony, Ck. I have come to see JB as the epitomy of what is/was wrong with Fusion (with a capital F). Complexity at the expense of humanity. There is little in Berlin's music or playing that is anything more than the evidencing of skills and competences. To use a literary metaphor, it is like looking at a writer's CV and never reading one of his books! JB is a craftsman who clearly wants to be an artist but in order to achieve this, he continues to work on his craft: "More technique, more technique, more knowledge, that'll do it, if I know more I will be better"!! You can read 1,000 books on roses but, until you have smelled one.... I really WANT him to do something beautiful but, so far, its all nuts and bolts.

I agree with some of what JB says but feel that his perspective lacks humility. His perspectives on bass playing are credible but, because his own playing is cold, doesn't always groove and lacks musicality, I have to approach his views with some scepticism. I WANT to like Berlin's playing and have several of his cds but I can't see them as anything but juggling and acrobatics. He has great technique and no idea what to do with it! His perspectives on time and groove playing start with assumptions about human beings that don't meet with my own life experiences so I haveto treat those views accordingly. Has anyone heard his take on Norah Jones, John Lennon etc? He is SOOO missing the point of those pieces; adding noodling bass to a Jones hit and playing 'Imagine' without the lyrics is like adding a moustache to the Mona Lisa and watching the Aurora Borealis in the daytime! He lacks any critical sense. He has invested emotionally in an academic approach to his art and is hacked off at the fact that other succeed without it. The world isn't fair Jeff. Trying to get a hit by adding crass bass filigree to established hits is not going to get you anywhere. You need to move people and your playing and writing just doesn't do it. Berlin says he gets a better response from a rock crowd because they are more open-minded. No, Jeff. You get a better response because that audience is impressed by fast playing and technique - they don't 'get it' any more than a jazz crowd. More to the point, most jazz audiences are just not impressed by the superficialities of your playing. Just write some beautiful music that doesn't feature what is essentially a naff bass sound and you may have a chance to be heard. When I was starting out, I loved Jeff Berlin. But now I am a mature musician, I can see why I was enamoured of his motor skills but not his music - I still like 'Palewell Park', I still like the Bruford version of 'Joe Frazier' but, on hisown CDs, I am struggling to find anything other than athleticism. Shame.

Sorry, Mike, but you really need to tighten your sh*t up. The walking lines don't swing and your phrasing over the head is very stilted/laboured. You still have some work to do to make this a great performance piece. But you are not a million miles away from nailing it. You need to remember that Jaco took NINE years to nail it. I have been working at Parker's 'Passport' for 15 years and am yet to catch a performance I like. Maybe one day. I know this sounds like I am being tough on you but there are hundreds of people out there that will tell you you are great. It's nice to hear that but it won't make you any better. You need to hear the truth. Trust me, if your performance was on the money, I would have said so but you have some more work to do before you can deliver on this tune. Keep trying and good luck. Rob

Having pretty much played my Wal Custom Fretless 4 exclusively for 22 years, I can honestly say it has delivered in every setting I have taken it into : jazz, funk (not slap), rock, latin etc. What I like about it is that it never sounds like anything but me. I don't think of 'my sound' as the Wal but believe that the Wal facilitates the expression of my musical ideas, 'my' sound. Other basses I have played have sounded like the bass. The Wal sounds like me. The addition of an Eden Metro about 6 years ago (previously SWR, GK, Trace Eliot and Frunt (remember them?)), I feel like I am home and dry. Musicians I play with have, for many years, been complimentary about my sound so I feel confident that my selection is affirmed. The DI sound is great for studio work too. That's why I stick with it. Why would I need another bass? Yes, I would love a 5-string fretless but am not desperate and, financially, it has always felt unnecessarily self-indulgent. I have played 3 or 4 other Wals, including 5s. They all sounded like me too! Wals work for me. Always have. Oh, and 6stringbassist, that was a beautiful thing you did for your brother. Some things matter more than basses.

I refuse to engage in this debate as it is, by its very nature, sexist. A players gender is of no relevance to his or her playing. You'll be asking who is the best gay bass player next. The best Muslim player? The best Socialist player? The best player over 65? Nonsense.

Lincoln Goines - rarely talked about but an exceptional journeyman player who has a cv as long as your arm.

Cubase has a mixing desk on it so you won't need one (unless you want to). What you will need is an audio/midi interface that turms an analogue signal (e.g. a bass or guitar) into a digital one. There are loads out there (I use an Edirol Audio Capture UA-20 but its ancient). You need to make use the ASIO driver on your soundcard is adequate (mine wasn't); not a big deal but, if it is not powerful enough, it will mean playback and recording won't match and there will be a gap between what you hear and what is recorded - not much use to a musician. But don't worry about it, its not an expensive bit of kit and there are 100s on ebay if youy need to cut costs.