Bilbo

There are very rare exceptions but drummers don't ordinarily think in keys (unless it is tympani or tuned percussion)

I don't know what you mean by transposing. Do you mean literally taking a piece of music in one key and putting into another opr are you talking about reading a chart in one key and playing the notes in another? (It happens less now we have ireal books than it did in the days of paper charts). The issues are many and complex depending on what instrumentation you are using. Bass guitar has one set of problems, saxophones another, brass another, tuned percussion another etc etc. Changing the area of any instrument in which a tune is played has the potential to impact upon the instrument's tessitura (the range in which a given instrument presents its best-sounding tone or texture). A sax playing a fourth higher may put comfortable notes into the area of the instrument where tone is thinner, more screechy or plain unreachable etc. Moving things around on stringed instruments is complex as voicing changes can seriously alter the effect. Imagins the opening Dsus of Pinball Wizard played in C. It's a massive subject.

Wasting valuable thinking time.......

I think the kinds of fretboard memory skills we are talking about here are very much at the peripherly of playing the instrument. What I mean by that is that, say I am playing a B on my A string and decide I need to add a 10th. I NEED to know where the requisite Eb is on the fretboard before I go there. Completely agree. The fact is, however, that, for me to WANT to play that 19th, I NEED to know what a tenth is and how it sounds before knowing where the requisite Eb is. Learning about 10ths and how they sound will give me the knowledge I need to make useful musical decisions whereas knowing where and Eb is on the neck will make no more contribution in it's own right than knowing where to plug the lead in. The geography is useless on its own. I was at a Jazz gig last night watching a highly skilled electric bass player who was all over the neck all night. He clearly knew the neck very well and was able to move positions naturally and gracefully without dropping a beat. Trouble was, it was clever but it was often quite unmusical. He did it because he could not because it needed doing. Knowledge is not power; wisdom is power. I think that knowing where notes are is crucial but knowing what they are there for and what you can do with them is infinitely more important. Learning these disciplines comes first; the geography will sort itself out.

Yeah, yeah. He's brilliant. [size=6]NOW WHERE IS THE NEXT PICTURE?!![/size]

I use one fo these with a Fishman Plat Pro into an AI Clarus/Ten 2EX. It mostly sounds like a bass (depends on the gig, the room, the drummers cymbals and how much I have been practising lately). Easy to fit. Feedback a possibility but the Fishman deals with that. http://www.gollihurmusic.com/product/1426-KANDK_SOUND_DOUBLE_BIG_TWIN_UPRIGHT_BASS_PICKUP.html

I did a gig once where a singer called a tune but which, when we started, was all over the place. Thinking I was in the wrong key, I looked over the pianist's shoulder to see that he was playing the wrong SONG. His choice? 'How Insensitive'.

The merit of knowing the fretboard is for improvising. If you play a B on the A sting and you want to play a Eb (10th), if you know the fretboard, you can find it easily and without 'learning; anything new. If you don't know the fretboard, it's an act of faith. I know the electric fretboard very well but, on my double bass, I struggle in ways that I don't on my Wal.

The solution is obvious. You have to speak to him. The issue is not finding the solution, it is implemnting it!! It is important to appraoch the issue of criticism with your ultimate goal in mind. 'Hey, Fred. You're sh*t' wis great if you want to start a row that will result in one of you leaving the band. You need to find an approach that retains your relationship and also allow the other party TIME to address the issue. I remember reading an article once on Bruce Springsteen who, at the top of his career, had a change of drummer. The new guy was not cutting it but The Boss allowed him to sort it his shortcomings over a year. I would record a rehearsal and then sit him down to listen to the tape saying something like 'Hey, Fred. We need to have a chat about your playing. I like your ideas and feel but there are occasional note choices that are not working and [b]we[/b] need to look at (share the issue in terms of recognising that the problem is everybodies not just his) . Is it a gap in your knowledge or are you hearing these notes as correct? Challenge the behaviour but not at the cost of the relationship. I remember telling a friend that he needed to think a bit more about his phrasing. He got the hump (quietly, he was too nice a guy to have a fight) but called me the next day to thank me. He had gone home and listened to himself on a recording and could hear what I was saying. He is still a friend today 20 years on. My greatest epiphanies have happened as a consequence of chats liek,this. The idea is to say to people 'I respect you enough to offer advice and to believe that you will accept this criticism as a means to secure improvements in your playing. If someone is a total trainwreck, I wouldn't be critical because it is pointless. If a small thing can make a massive difference, it is almost a DUTY to say something

Or to MEEEEEEEEE!

Some are probably only voting once because they haven't read the guidance.

[quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1432813942' post='2785208'] Miles Davis - "Kind Of Blue". Both the track and the album was my introduction to jazz, an enjoyable journey that still exists to this day. [/quote] There is no track 'Kind Of Blue'. Do you mean 'All Blues' or 'Blue In Green'?

I love these threads. It's all about the power of music. Ravel's Bolero - heard it at school in a music lesson (1974) - (actually, it would be more accurate to say I SAW it as it was on film (not video, film). An awakening. I went home and told MUm about it and it turned out she had it on record. I played it over and over and over. I also heard/saw that Disney version of Peter and The Wolf in that same music lesson but, for some reason, as much as I loved it, it didn't have the same life-changing effect as the Ravel. Take It Off The Top - Dixie Dregs. I loved the Friday Rock Show and used to listen to it diligently. This was the theme but what it subtly did, along with Al Di Meola's 'Chasin' The Voodoo', was to show me how much I preferred iunstrumental musics to songs. After the Rock Show, came Alexis Korner's programme which had Weather Report's 'Birdland' as a theme tune - another indicator of the merits of music without words. Fand - The Enid - I saw them live in about 1979 (and many times afterwards). I had no idea who they were but they appeared in a local theatre venue at a time when I would have been impressed by anything. They were one if the first bands I ever saw live (THE first was Gillan). This piece, an epic that took up the whole side of their Aerie Faerie Nonsense lp, was absoutely captivating. I still listen to it occasionally today. Donna Lee - Jaco - an absolute WTF!! moment. Conference Of The Birds - Dave Holland - the day I realised you didn't have to 'understand' something to appreciate it.

[quote name='Old Man Riva' timestamp='1432675073' post='2783933'] That's a beautiful piece of music. Are you a fan of Mulligan's Age of Steam at all? Early 70s album with a very west coast sound, quite a bit of electric bass on it as well courtesy of Chuck Dimanico. It's a cracking album that tends to get overlooked, probably due to the 'electric' nature of it. [/quote] I don't think I have ever heard it. Will look it up.

I lose interest at this point and just want to see the next picture

Have I been sacked without my knowing?

[quote name='Skol303' timestamp='1432596821' post='2783189'] Unless they both want to be drummers [/quote] Adam and The Ants! The GLitter Band!! Some of Coltrane's later bands!! Two drummers has a proud if noisy tradition, Paul!! Start 'em early!!

There is another issue at stake here, something that is hard to talk about without offending people; I am talking about respect for the music. Now I understand that I am on seriously dodgy ground here but, some years ago, a drummer friend and I decided we needed to start a Jazz venture locally so we could bring some decent quality Jazz to the area. We found a sympathetic landlord etc and set up our little thing here www.jazzeast.vpweb.co.uk The reason I am posting this in this thread was to explain [i]why[/i] we did it. There were/are a massive number of acts/bands/artists in our area who were listed as or presenting themselves as 'Jazz' at a time when 'Jazz' has little or no media presence. We were aware that. locally, there were a growing number of these 'Jazz' acts/bands/artists and venues putting on 'Jazz' acts/bands/artists that had no idea what 'Jazz' was and was not and certainly struggled to actually [i]play[/i] it. I am not splitting hairs over semantics here; the stuff that was being presented was both poorly produced, poorly presented and VERY poorly played (try a Jazz sextet that used a drum machine that just went tsss, ut tu tssssss, ut tu tsssssss, ut tu tssssssss all night? Duos that comprise a singer and guitarist wearing a suit and using a 'Jazz' guitar whilst playing pop songs - it was even bad pop, never mind bad 'Jazz' - all first position chords, no concept of solo 'Jazz' guitar playing - just painful to watch). Now, we could have lived with that as there are always s*** bands etc but the problem was that these s*** so called 'Jazz' bands were the ONLY 'Jazz' bands available for audiences to hear and the absence of any credible alternatives meant that anyone who wanted to see/hear 'Jazz' for the first time was being presented with some pretty grim stuff and would have most likley been put off it for life (one musician friend reported saw audience members actually [i]laughing[/i] at the material being presented). One of my biggest gripes is people who sing songs from the Great American Songbook and call it 'Jazz'. They may be great songs that might even be sung quite well but that doesn't make them Jazz, just songs that are/may be associated with 'Jazz' artists like Sinatra, Ella Fitzgerald etc. Some even use backing tapes, FFS. How can it be 'Jazz' with backing tapes and machines? I am not just being precious about my favourite genre and being all pretentious; the stuff I am discussing is just not 'Jazz' in any way shape or form. I guess what I am saying is that, if anyone is going to put live music on, as a performer or as a venue, they should have sufficient respect for the music [i]and for the audience[/i] to ensure that what is presented has some degree of merit. Our view was that poorly presented 'Jazz', and this stuff was [i]poor[/i], was actually doling more [i]harm[/i] to the music than not having it available at all. We did something about it and are having some success but it's hard work fighting these bizarre Frankenjazzers!! I know I am coming over as a Jazz nazi/snob but this stuff was grim, really grim (and they are still out there, s***ing on the music).

Can't post links from here but here goes..... ELO – Concerto For A Rainy Day - Out Of The Blue was my first grown up LP that I bought when it came out. I had heard A New World Record at a friends house and eventually bought for myself but OOTB was the oen I waited for and bought hot off the press. . Phantom Of The Opera – Iron Maiden. Not sure how I came to this but the whole thing was a really fresh sound to my ears. Got me into metal in a big way and my first gigs. I was a NWOBHM geek. Firth of Fifth – Genesis – heard at a friends house being played by his older brother (who later committed suicide, tragically). I registered the line ‘Like a cancer growth, is removed by skill’ and went looking for it Close To The Edge – Yes – a friend bought the LP and I borrowed it soon after and really got into it. It was one of those LPs that, as a teenager, I played again and again and again and again..... It had everything; harmony, counterpoint, strong rhythmic identity. Still a marvellous piece of music. Bastille Day – Rush – I bought the ‘Caress of Steel‘ LP on the basis of their reputation and this was the opening track; a ‘wow’ moment for a young rocker Evidence Of Autumn – Genesis – just intelligent writing. I still love the song today Either End of August – Bruford. I got hold of all of the Yes solo lps and Bruford’s ‘Feels Good To Me’ was the last one I got. My introduction to fusion. The tune is a ballad in 5:4 Milestones – Miles Davis – the first full on Jazz tune I ‘got’. That Cannonball Adderley solo...... Song For Strayhorn – Gerry Mulligan. The first solo I transcribed properly, note-for-note. I can still sing it today. The Rite Of Spring – Stravinsky. I keep listening to it but still have no idea where it all came from!! The one piece I would consider to be the most important to me would be the Stravinsky simply because I would still be finding something fresh in there every time I heard it. Book? I, too, would take Lord Of The Rings, It has been a favourite since I first read it 35 years ago. It is the only book I have read more than twice (six times, I think) Luxury item. My Gibson ES175. A double bass would be great but I think I would miss the harmony.

As I have only really played one electric bass since 1986, it's a no brainer. My Wal Custom Fretless.

I have previously transcribed solos by Gerry Mulligan (baritone sax) and Bob Brookmeyer (valve trombone). These instruments tend to sit well on the bass but it is worth working with material from all instrumentalists because they all tend to think differently and force you out off a bess-centric perspective.

Ten entries!! Solid.