ash

[b]Ok this is what I sent -[/b] With regard to the above, I would like to know how and why I have breached intellectual property rights on the listed item John Birch bass? The bass was made in the early 70s in Birmingham England, it was a one off custom guitar. My listing did not make reference to Rickenbacker or any of its trademarks. As an eBay user resident in the UK I would like to ask when Rickenbacker became the holder of the intellectual property rights to the generic 'bass guitar' since this is the only common factor between their product and the instrument I listed on the eBay site. Sincerely [b] ...and this is what I got back from the chief executive himself...[/b] The sir, I have not seen your instrument but if it is shaped anything like our instruments- head, body, pickguard, pickups, logo plate- it would be covered by a variety of U.S. and E.C. trademark registrations. A number of John Birch instruments I have seen in the past infringe these rights and sale of them would be unlawful. It doesn’t matter when or where it was made nor where you reside. I do recall that a John Birch bass was removed from eBay several times last week, culminating in a listing with no photos and a generic description. This was referred specially to eBay's U.K. trademark counsel who made the ultimate call to delete the auction and flag the account due to violation of their terms of service. Possibly this was yours. Should you require further advice, I would refer you to any one of the qualified IP lawyers you have there in the U.K. Regards, John C. Hall Chief Executive Officer [b]I'm actually quite pleased that they bothered to get in touch to clarify things, it also shows the extent that the Rickenbacker company goes to protect it's identifiable trademarks. Whether we agree with them or not it shows some determination! It still however seems a little harsh to me that as a private seller I have been penalised by restrictions placed upon my account, especially given the current level of blatant rickenfakery going on these days. The double standards by which ebay continues to operate never ceases to amaze me. Without doubt if my bass had passed Rickenbacker's scrutiny eBay would have happily taken my fees. I do intend to respond.[/b]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1232080' date='May 15 2011, 03:13 PM']We must unite to defeat the Rickenwaffen. [/quote] [b]Well Mr Churchill inspired me to write this to eBay -[/b]Thank you for your recent listing on eBay. The rights owner or an agent authorized to act on behalf of the rights owner, Rickenbacker International Corporation, notified eBay that this listing breaches intellectual property rights. When eBay receives a report of this type of breach, we remove the listing to comply with the law. Questions about the specific violation should be addressed to Rickenbacker International Corporation You can send an email to: [email protected] With regard to the above, I would like to know how and why I have breached intellectual property rights on the listed item John Birch bass? The bass was made in the early 70s in Birmingham England, it was a one off custom guitar. My listing did not make reference to Rickenbacker or any of its trademarks. As an eBay user resident in the UK I would like to ask when Rickenbacker became the holder of the intellectual property rights to the generic 'bass guitar' since this is the only common factor between their product and the instrument I listed on the eBay site. Sincerely [b]...and I got this back....[/b] The shape of the headstock, body, nameplate, and certain other elements of Rickenbacker instruments have achieved trademark status in all major world jurisdictions through registration and other provisions of trademark law, such as the Lanham Act in the United States. Due to the burden placed on us by United States case law and the significant investment we've made in these marks for more than seven decades, we must strongly enforce proper usage of our marques and cannot permit their use without permission or on non-Rickenbacker products. Removing mention of "Rickenbacker" or any creative variation thereof is NOT sufficient to reinstate your auction. The eBay user agreement prohibits the sale of infringing goods and bars the use of keyword spamming which is illegal in the United States. For further information look here: [url="http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/trademark.html"]http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/trademark.html[/url] [url="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/keyword-spam.html"]http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/keyword-spam.html[/url] [url="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html"]http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/replica-counterfeit.html[/url] [url="http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/authenticity-disclaimers.html"]http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/authen...isclaimers.html[/url] eBay's control servers are located in California, placing all auctions under jurisdiction of U.S. and California law. You agreed to be bound by this information when you joined eBay. Why do we police our trademarks agressively while some other instrument makers often do not? Unfortunately, due to the lack of action on their part in the past, their trademarks may be invalid or unenforceable. Be assured that they would also take action if they could. No maker considers infringing items to be a tribute or form of flattery. For further specific question you may have, please send your message to [email protected]. Note that messages containing requests to reinstate your auction or account will be ignored as our policy and the law has been clearly stated above. [b]So I think I will send my next query to Mr Hall himself![/b] I bet many Basschatters have had similar stories. Interestingly I have sold MANY Rickenfakers on eBay and never had a problem before by using careful wording, etc. ironically this time I made no mention of the Rick shape or its trademarks and this one gets pulled! Perhaps its because of the sheer quality of John Birch's instruments. Anyway I hope all this isn't hijacking this thread, my apologies moderators please feel free to move it wherever, and thanks to all you fellows who have shared your advice and thoughts with me.

[quote name='karlfer' post='1231322' date='May 14 2011, 08:01 PM']The most annoying thing is the fiscal hypocrisy of FEEBay. They are quite happy for the Retrovibe, Bass Collection's California and the occasional (alleged) "Tokai" Rockinbetter. If it's a business customer. I actually think it is about time the scrotes were reported to Trading Standards or the Office of Fair Trading over this issue. Lets face it, we have plenty of evidence of their hypocrisy. It should be all or none. Karl.[/quote] [b]Totally agree - I got this answer to my stern email from dear old Ebay who have basically whimped out and put the blame on R corps ......[/b] My name is Megan and I?m happy to resolve your query about the removal of John Birch Bass Guitar listing (item no. 140548626245). I understand it can be a matter of concern to have a listing removed from the site. I've checked your account and your listing was removed on the basis of past breach of the policy. Please note that your similar listing was previously removed because RO, Rickenbacker International Corporation sent us a signed legal statement that your item was infringing their trademark/copyright. eBay can?t give you permission to relist them, that?s why it had to be removed from the site. You'll find their contact details in the email notification we sent you when we removed the listing. If you're able to resolve the issue with the rights owner, and they grant you permission to relist this item, we'll reinstate your listing and remove the breach from the account. Moreover, the restrictions are automatically placed on member's account on the basis of severity and repetition of the breaches. Unfortunately, we can't lift the selling restriction from your account. Your restriction will be lifted at the end of the restriction period after you've taken the eBay tutorial. I hope I've been able to explain things clearly. Thank you for your cooperation. Kind regards, Megan Vickers eBay Trust & Safety [b]Hmmm....it totally failed to address any of the concerns i raised of course...I doubt there's any point in writing to Mr Hall and his pedants....I'm interested to find out what the tutorial will be about anyone done one, any suggestions? [/b]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1231254' date='May 14 2011, 07:11 PM']The IP thing applies worldwide, but the law that makes it doesn't, wherever something is, it breaches the IP of RIC on US soil, meaning it can't go across the border, so possibly if you are offering worldwide shipping, they have something, and you need to put a 'will not ship to (which is an option).[/quote] Yes I actually stated 'pickup only' and made no references to any incriminating name! I was selling this as a custom John Birch, I even cut down pics incase of problems in my original listings, its a ridiculous scenario really since there are numerous other brands overtly copying and making reference to the coverted brand.

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1229501' date='May 12 2011, 11:52 PM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-KAY-BASS-GUITAR-/120723865862?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1c1bb40106"]Kay[/url][/quote] [b]I relisted again and it just got pulled - this is what they said -[/b] Thank you for your recent listing on eBay. Unfortunately, the following item(s) breached one or more of our policies and had to be removed from the site. 140548626245 - John Birch Bass Guitar Vintage UK Made 1970s Any associated fees have been credited to your account and any bidders on this item have been notified. Why did we remove your listing? - Past violations of policy - No photos of the item For a safe shopping experience on eBay, and to make buyers feel confident about their purchases, we will at times remove certain listings from the site. [b]Keep in mind there was no mention of a certain US company and there were no pictures and also I am a private seller....further to this I got the following...[/b] We regret to inform you that, because of a recent policy breach, your account has been restricted from selling for a period of seven (7) days. During this time you won't be able to list new items, and you're not allowed to register a new account. Please be assured that your account is not suspended, the restriction will be lifted automatically once the seven day period is over. While your account is restricted you won't be able to sell on eBay, however you may continue to buy items, leave Feedback, access emails in My Messages and do most other administrative tasks. Please be aware that repeated breaches of this or another policy may result in a range of actions, including the suspension of your eBay membership. This restriction doesn't relieve you of your obligation to pay any fees that you may owe to eBay. If you have any further questions, please review the notice that was previously sent to you about this restriction. Thank you for your cooperation in this important matter. Regards, eBay Trust & Safety [b]....if you've got this far you can imagine I have contacted them with a somewhat caustic reply. [/b]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1227892' date='May 11 2011, 07:04 PM']Report all the Ricks for being fake Retrovibes.[/quote] Ha! Ha!

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' post='1225708' date='May 9 2011, 11:44 PM'][url="http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/John-Birch-Bass-1970s-UK-Custom-Bass-Guitar-/140546925411?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item20b93fe363"]Think we've seen this one recently.[/url][/quote] Yep they keep pulling it and I haven't even mentioned the 'R' word or even shown a full picture - this time I was told the very small picture of the bass which incidently showed no 'cresting waves' or other product identifiable names or shapes or associated artists [i]infringed copyright[/i].... hmmm...