mcnach

ah, next to Button Moon! I hear it doesn't rain much there.

oh the irony

Me, I'm working full time, and I have a girlfriend but no kids so it's pretty easy, especially when I can bring her with me the times we play at some fun festivals or at interesting locations (for instance, we had 3 gigs in Skye one weekend last year, so I drove myself with my gf rather than in the van, and we did a little tourism too). A total of 57 gigs in this past year may sound like every weekend is taken, however it's not unusual to have a few very busy weekends, multiple gigs on one day even (two of the bands I play in have often been at the same festivals, which makes summer quite busy that way)... so there's still lots of free time left. We book our own gigs. After spending time seeking them, now we get lots of gigs when they just contact us. If we get a gig somewhere beyond a certain distance, we can often arrange to have another gig nearby to help us return home with a positive balance... but it took years to know the right people. One of the bands, our gigs come mostly from one single member who just seems to know everybody all over the UK: again, he's been doing this for a long time. We got lucky with him.

I once bought from an eBay shop one of those mini Roland amps, the battery operated ones... they came in various colours and I specified the red one. I received a black one. I contacted the seller to return the black one and get the red one I asked for. They said they ran out of red ones. I said "I'll return this and have a refund please". I ended up paying the return out of my own pocket and never got refunded for that even if it was not my fault. EBay was not interested. I think shops will sometimes try it on, knowing that many will just give up, as I did.

I once sold a neck with a separate fake logo, but it was a real neck, I didn't dream it.

But it's a real logo, right?

Very nice! I'm not a big fan of the golden anodised pickguards, but I have to say that with the tinted maple neck and black body it looks GREAT

This. I don't think the Italy vs Indonesia production really has anything in it. I have a LM3 from 2009 as a backup (and home rig) and I'll probably get another if/when it fails. It's not the very best sounding amp, but it's an amp that never lets me down and always produces pleasant sounds.

G&L L2000. Probably the only bass that can do its own thing as well as a very passable P and Jazz bass sound.

sigh... we've moved fast from "this is illegal" to "however, here's a loophole". And all... for what? Is anybody here seriously suggesting changing anything in the way the FS subforum is run?

No worries... stuff in writing here often looks serious while the very same stuff spoken while having a friendly discussion and a couple of beers would cause no offence. It's all good. Yes, it actually turns out that Ferrari and Fiat seem to be going separate ways lately... but I just wanted to make the point about there being a larger company who decides what the subcompanies do etc as expanded earlier. However... and I add this simply as a curious bit of info it turns out there's a Fiat 500 "Tributo Ferrari"...

You're just bitter because you tried to the the 500th but got a little late

No, but the main point is: a company (large or small) chooses what to do with their products, and if they are a large company with smaller subcompanies and they label their products differently, then that's what they are. Whether the products look alike or not is entirely irrelevant, but used by some to 'pretend' they have a Brand X product despite its Brand Y label. Of course, nobody says their Ferrari is a Fiat. However, I have heard many times how a Skoda is just like a particular VW or Audi, and Minis referred to as BMWs... Again, the direction is always the same: associate a perceived lower tier product with a perceived higher tier one. But you knew that already.

Just because you do not understand the question it doesn't make it moronic. Fiat owns Ferrari just like Fender owns Squier.

Both. But mostly a Fender guitar is a Fender guitar if the company decides to stick a big juicy Fender logo on it. Because only they have the right to make a Fender guitar, and they reserve the right to source their materials wherever they see fit. When the company sticks a Squier label on it, with or without "by Fender", then it is a Squier guitar. It's pretty simple. It's funny that some people would call their Squier a Fender... but the genuine Fenders that came out in the 80s with the "Squier series" smaller logo are never referred to as a Squier. You know exactly why. Any reason people come up with to call a Squier a Fender is just clutching at straws to make an instrument somehow seem to belong to a higher tier.

So by that reasoning, is a Fiat 500 a Ferrari then?

Oh, maybe I misunderstood, you added a link to the buyer's ad and labelled it as "the crook's ad" so I assumed you agreed with that label:

Me too. I think there's even someone here with an amazing story of a blue Ric where the blue was leaching into the neck binding and he was blamed for it. And quite a few reports of bridges bending... etc. But as a reason, it stood out as a good one.

That kind of baiting is very annoying and culprits should be shot.

I think the issue is more of a distinction between 1) made to be sold as a Brand X 'lookalike', and 2) made by an individual for their own purpose. Situation 1 is wrong. That's why Limelight had to backtrack and stop putting Fender logos on their basses... but they'd still "help a buyer apply their own Fender logo", as long as Limelight is not doing it (yes, we know...). Personally I don't mind enterprises like Limelight, because they very clearly state what they do and they do not attempt to pass their instruments for 'real' Fenders. Others (see plenty on AliExpress) are not so cool. Situation 2 is "ok". The thing is that one day they may decide to sell the instrument to another person. As long as the instrument is described accurately, I can't see the problem, personally. It's like me debadging my Audi A3 and putting Maserati logos... (ok I'd fool nobody, but whether it's easy to pass for the real thing is not the matter here). Maybe I just like my car with those logos, for whatever reason. It's my car. Then one day I decide to sell it... then I sell it as an Audi A3 and there's this person who thinks an A3 with Maserati logos look great, and they buy it. No deceit. No harm. Still... a company's logo should only really be used by that company, hence the "ok" with quotation marks. I think we're having the discussion here with people coming at it from different places, depending on whether they are more interested in talking pure right or wrong, or whether it's a wrong that needs to be punished (and who is harmed). A company like Rickenbacker protects their designs aggressively for whatever reasons (they have many valid ones) but one I read was that they take pride in their quality, and they do not want people to judge their company poorly after unwittingly playing a fake instrument. It's a reason I can sympathise with (even if I detest their manners: you can be right and still be an a$$hole). Fender seems to be a different kind of animal. Maybe their baby grew too big and they cannot police it as much as they would like, but for whatever reason they do not pursue individuals. Today it is incredibly easy to find decent looking parts that allow you to build your own Fender lookalike. Add a logo, et voila, if you just want a replica, you got it. I find it hard to justify bringing down the hammer of Thor on those who do that for the simple purpose of playing a lookalike instrument, without lying about what it really is... even if, technically, it is wrong.

I had bacon & maple ice cream once, with bacon bits! It was pretty good!

57 this year, with the last one on the 9th of December, and nothing now until late January... my fingers itch!!! On average I tend to do around 40-50 a year, but next year is not looking to be as busy as I'd have liked. My main band is intending to record our third album, and generally gigs slow down while we're busy with that. I don't see why, we're perfectly capable of doing both, but that's how it's been previously...

I was going to ask about people who replace various parts on their generally more expensive basses, then I remember I have my own special case with my £75 (used) Squier [1] and I thought it would be interesting to mention it: would the 'market' value of an instrument be a factor in what we're discussing here? Or only for instruments where their value is above a certain threshold? People do all kinds of modifications to their guitars: preamps get added/removed/replaced, pickups changed, or added... when does it stop being a Brand X product? The serial number criterion... I don't know, sometimes the serial number is on a neck plate. Change the neck plate... it's most definitely still the same bass, in my opinion. Change the neck... hmmm... that's quite a substantial change. I guess, for me, once you change the (most?) fundamental aspect of an instrument, it becomes another. If I replace the neck, it's no longer the same instrument. However... it kind of still is. Argh. I don't know. I never gave this enough thought, possibly because I don't care about Brand X or Y, but I *do* care about the history of an instrument and the modifications it's been subjected to, because that may affect its market value and also because I want to know exactly what it is that I have in my hands. That's why, for me, a 'replica' with the logo of another brand is not much of an issue beyond its market value, and as long as it's disclosed I am ok with it. But the rogue sellers out there do get on my nerves and they take advantage of the fact that certain instruments are easy to pass for their more expensive cousins to an inexperienced buyer. I like how the marketplace section in this forum is open for comments, and if someone is trying to deceive they get stopped easily. It's a decent community here, fortunately. [1] This Squier cost me £75 used (Korean, Cort factory, 1994). I just wanted a cheap Jazz for a specific purpose. Electronics were not working well and the pickups were pretty horrible. But for some reason it felt very nice and with a set of DiMarzio Area J pickups I had, that thing sounded very nice. I ended up adding a J-Retro preamp. It is a very nice Jazz bass, but curiously the cost/value of the initial instrument is merely a fraction of all the added bits. Actually, I also replaced the bridge (I like to adjust the string spacing to be a bit wider than normal)... I'm not sure how much of the original bass is left on this one! I doubt I'll ever sell it, but if I did, the whole history would be disclosed, obviously.

well, I have a spare one

Hey, that's the wrong logo! A fake, not me!!!