My brother drove over my brand new L2000. Help!!!

[mashup]

What a completely f***ed up day i have had.

In short, after unloading all of my music gear out of my car, ready for rehearsal at the studio, I turned around in horror, to see my brother reverse at speed over my brand new USA G & L L2000 bass, which was in it's hard case, fortunately?

I have been saving up for this bass for a long time, and only got it 3 weeks ago!

Anyway, ready for the worst, I pulled the case out from underneath the car. Upon immediate inspection, i could see that the case had cracked in several places. I opened the case, and to my amazement, the bass was all in 1 piece and there was no visible structural damage or cracks to the body or neck anywhere!

However, once i got into the studio and started tuning up, it was constantly going out of tune. I would tune up E A D G strings, return to the E to check, and it had gone out of tune, as had the others when checked again. After about 15 minutes of constant tuning, i got her to stay in tune, well, the open strings anyway. We ran through a track, and i noticed that she was horribly out of tune on alot of notes. I checked the open strings and they were all true and in tune still, i then worked my way up the neck from fret to fret, and almost every other fret on each string, after the open, was out of tune, although the open still rang true.

The bass was never like this before. What could this be? The neck still looks very straight miraculously! Do i have an intonation problem or is my neck f***ed, and do i need a new one?

Does it sound like something that can be fixed with a setup?

The car's wheels drove over the case diagonally over the 2nd, 3rd, 4th & 5th frets, which also happen to be where the notes are most out of tune from what they should be. The tyre marks are imprinted into the case at this point, that's how i could tell.

I have taken it into a guitar shop today to have it looked at, but we have a gig in 4 days, and i sold my backup bass this morning! The timing of all this is terrible!! The guitarist seems to think that unless there is visible structural damage to the bass, then the intonation problem can be remedied via a setup. However, i am fully aware that i've just had well over a ton of metal moving force over my brand new bass - compressing the outer case and inner padding housing the bass , into her most delicate areas. Could such a high level of compression of all the protective layers sandwhiching the bass together, have caused a warp to the neck or more likely altered or created tension to the neck?

Has anyone had any similar experiences? I live in hope, with my fingers, toes, arms, legs and eyelids crossed. She looks perfectly normal, but intonation is certainly out. Im not a guitar techie in any way ( Wish i was) But does this sound fixable?

Cheers for reading about my nightmare in recent years.

[xilddx]

Never had a similar experience, but I would change my member name if I were you

Seriously, something very odd is going on with your bass. You should get it looked at by a pro, I don't have a clue why it should keep going out of tune like that. I'm sorry to say it sounds to me like it may be serious.

[basshead56]

It is either one of two things IMO:

1) The weight of the car on top and pressing down on the bass has caused the intonation to go out.
It is possible that the bridge saddles may have been pulled further forward, as well as the increased pressure on the tuning machines, thus causing serious strain. but a setup and possibly new strings may see it working again

2) As above, but the weight has bowed/warped the neck a fair bit.

Either way, you will know for sure when the tech has a good look at her.

I really hope its just a bridge issue man, honestly.
Best of luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you too!

[mashup]

[quote name='silddx' post='911525' date='Jul 31 2010, 10:26 PM']Never had a similar experience, but I would change my member name if I were you

Seriously, something very odd is going on with your bass. You should get it looked at by a pro, I don't have a clue why it should keep going out of tune like that. I'm sorry to say it sounds to me like it may be serious.[/quote]


Yeah, that name follows me like a bad smell on days like today!

It was keeping pitch in the end, it's just it was keeping the wrong pitch for most frets. Intonation? I hope so!!

[mashup]

[quote name='basshead56' post='911530' date='Jul 31 2010, 10:39 PM']It is either one of two things IMO:

1) The weight of the car on top and pressing down on the bass has caused the intonation to go out.
It is possible that the bridge saddles may have been pulled further forward, as well as the increased pressure on the tuning machines, thus causing serious strain. but a setup and possibly new strings may see it working again

2) As above, but the weight has bowed/warped the neck a fair bit.

Either way, you will know for sure when the tech has a good look at her.

I really hope its just a bridge issue man, honestly.
Best of luck and I'll keep my fingers crossed for you too![/quote]


Thanks fella

[Grand Wazoo]

First question and more important, is your brother still alive? Want me to take care of him? Say the word and he sleeps with the fishes.

Now onto the bass, it is quite likely that the neck might have shifted from its pocket and horrible tell tale signs will be revealed once the neck is removed from the body pocket and inspected for cracks. So take a few deep breath and do as follows:

[b]1)[/b] remove all strings and unscrew neck. Remove the neck gently by holding the body on a table (use a large towel or rubber camping mat or aerobic excerise similar mat sumfink soft in other words) tap the back of the neck at the heel joint gently until it comes out. Do not force out, by twisting the neck up and down, this will damage the neck pocket. Now look inside the pocket and at the back of the neck heel, are there any cracks? If yes, you're fu###ed, and if not you're lucky and go to [b]2)[/b]

[b]2)[/b] undo the trussroad to the max so that the neck shows a prominent [b]back bow [/b]see pic below



Now get a straight edge ruler and see if all the frets are sitting firmly in their slots, or if any of them have sunken in by the tyre driving over them, in other words they should all stick out at the exact same heigth. If all the frets seem to be ok. go to [b]3)[/b] but before you do that, unscrew and remove the bridge and check if this has been forced into the wood by the tyre, see if there are any sinking marks, if not then it's one less problem and all your issues with tuning now are relevant to the neck itself. Hold the neck up and look at if from the bottom of the heel to the top of the nut, is the neck warped or twisted? meaning is one of the sides turning up or down at the end, i.e. the g string side or e string side are they not even with the bottom of the neck? If they are all ok then lets proceed to the last point [b]3)[/b]

[b]3)[/b] Re-fit the neck to the body, (and the bridge, if you took it off) re-string the bass, with a new set of strings the old strings would have been squashed by now and would not be round anymor but oval-ized hence giving false tuning due to the irregular vibration, sounds complicated but a not fully round string will not produce a true pitch. so...

Neck is in place and strings are on, but we have the trussrod completely undone so the strings are all resting on the frets, not a problem start step by step to take your string up to pitch first and then adding turns on the trussrod until the strings start to come away from the frets. Repeat this until you have a satisfactory action, not too low and not too high, with miniumal fret noise. To check the optimal relief you can use a guitar capo if you have one or a pencil with a rubber band to press all the strings down at the first fret, then press the string at the 12th fret and see if there is a gap the width of a credit card at the 7th fret, use the trussrod adjustment until that is achieved.

Junk the pencil/capo and tune the bridge now.

Plug your tuner in, and play the open string first, then the harmonic at the 12th fret, if the harmonic is sharp move the saddle towards the neck if it is flat move it away towards the arse end of the bass.
Do that for all the strings until all the 12th fret harmonics are pitch perfect.

Now the moment of truth...

with the tuner still plugged in, play the open string, then check the harmonic at the 12th and ensure as above that they are of exact perfect pitch, now gently press the string down on the 12th fret with very little pressure and see if the pitch goes up or down, if it does, Huston we have a problem, if not we have sorted it, and you should live happily ever after and so does your brother. (possibly as far as possible from any bass)

Edited July 31, 2010 by Grand Wazoo

[mashup]

[quote name='basshead56' post='911530' date='Jul 31 2010, 10:39 PM']2) As above, but the weight has bowed/warped the neck a fair bit.[/quote]

The neck doesn't really look warped or bent in any way

[mashup]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='911543' date='Jul 31 2010, 11:12 PM']First question and more important, is your brother still alive? Want me to take care of him? Say the word and he sleeps with the fishes.

Now onto the bass, it is quite likely that the neck might have shifted from its pocket and horrible tell tale signs will be revealed once the neck is removed from the body pocket and inspected for cracks. So take a few deep breath and do as follows:

[b]1)[/b] remove all strings and unscrew neck. Remove the neck gently by holding the body on a table (use a large towel or rubber camping mat or aerobic excerise similar mat sumfink soft in other words) tap the back of the neck at the heel joint gently until it comes out. Do not force out, by twisting the neck up and down, this will damage the neck pocket. Now look inside the pocket and at the back of the neck heel, are there any cracks? If yes, you're fu###ed, and if not you're lucky and go to [b]2)[/b]

[b]2)[/b] undo the trussroad to the max so that the neck shows a prominent [b]back bow [/b]see pic below



Now get a straight edge ruler and see if all the frets are sitting firmly in their slots, or if any of them have sunken in by the tyre driving over them, in other words they should all stick out at the exact same heigth. If all the frets seem to be ok. go to [b]3)[/b] but before you do that, unscrew and remove the bridge and check if this has been forced into the wood by the tyre, see if there are any sinking marks, if not then it's one less problem and all your issues with tuning now are relevant to the neck itself. Hold the neck up and look at if from the bottom of the heel to the top of the nut, is the neck warped or twisted? meaning is one of the sides turning up or down at the end, i.e. the g string side or e string side are they not even with the bottom of the neck? If they are all ok then lets proceed to the last point [b]3)[/b]

[b]3)[/b] Re-fit the neck to the body, (and the bridge, if you took it off) re-string the bass, with a new set of strings the old strings would have been squashed by now and would not be round anymor but oval-ized hence giving false tuning due to the irregular vibration, sounds complicated but a not fully round string will not produce a true pitch. so...

Neck is in place and strings are on, but we have the trussrod completely undone so the strings are all resting on the frets, not a problem start step by step to take your string up to pitch first and then adding turns on the trussrod until the strings start to come away from the frets. Repeat this until you have a satisfactory action, not too low and not too high, with miniumal fret noise. To check the optimal relief you can use a guitar capo if you have one or a pencil with a rubber band to press all the strings down at the first fret, then press the string at the 12th fret and see if there is a gap the width of a credit card at the 7th fret, use the trussrod adjustment until that is achieved.

Junk the pencil/capo and tune the bridge now.

Plug your tuner in, and play the open string first, then the harmonic at the 12th fret, if the harmonic is sharp move the saddle towards the neck if it is flat move it away towards the arse end of the bass.
Do that for all the strings until all the 12th fret harmonics are pitch perfect.

Now the moment of truth...

with the tuner still plugged in, play the open string, then check the harmonic at the 12th and ensure as above that they are of exact perfect pitch, now gently press the string down on the 12th fret with very little pressure and see if the pitch goes up or down, if it does, Huston we have a problem, if not we have sorted it, and you should live happily ever after and so does your brother. (possibly as far as possible from any bass)[/quote]

Thanks for all of this amazing information, but i really dont feel confident in doing this. If my bass comes back and it's still f***ed, would you be up for the job if i paid you for your services? Sorry, i know it's a bit cheeky of me, but you do know what you're doing, and i dont. Also, i wasn't overblown with confidence in the guy i left it with at the shop.

How likely is it that the neck shifted from it's pocket? It's a 6 bolt neck, and it looked absolutely fine upon inspection, externally anyhow.

Edited July 31, 2010 by mashup

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='mashup' post='911553' date='Jul 31 2010, 11:24 PM']Thanks for all of this amazing information, but i really dont feel confident in doing this. If my bass comes back and it's still f***ed, would you be up for the job if i paid you for your services? Sorry, i know it's a bit cheeky of me, but you do know what you're doing, and i dont. Also, i wasn't overblown with confidence in the guy i left it with at the shop.

How likely is it that the neck shifted from it's pocket? It's a 6 bolt neck, and it looked absolutely fine upon inspection, externally anyhow.[/quote]

I'd love to have a look at it mate, but I am off on holiday for two weeks in the morning with the missus, I'll be sailing a yacht to Egypt, so regrettably I can't be of help, I am afraid.

Start by fitting a decent set of strings and check intonation at the 12th fret open / harmonic and then fretted. If it's bad, take it to a good luthier, I am in London and when I am not on holiday I live/work on a cargo ship so very seldom ashore.

[mashup]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='911560' date='Jul 31 2010, 11:41 PM']I'd love to have a look at it mate, but I am off on holiday for two weeks in the morning with the missus, I'll be sailing a yacht to Egypt, so regrettably I can't be of help, I am afraid.

Start by fitting a decent set of strings and check intonation at the 12th fret open / harmonic and then fretted. If it's bad, take it to a good luthier, I am in London and when I am not on holiday I live/work on a cargo ship so very seldom ashore.[/quote]

Thanks alot for all of your help. I'll try what you said, as maybe the strings could have got crushed? Obviously doing wonders for the fretboard! The guitar tech has it, so hopefully he'll sort it out, but he didn't really inspire me with any confidence. If all else fails, do you know of any good luthiers in and around south london?

Have a great holiday with the missus. It sounds like an adventure,

Cheers,

Mat

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='mashup' post='911562' date='Jul 31 2010, 11:45 PM']Thanks alot for all of your help. I'll try what you said, as maybe the strings could have got crushed? Obviously doing wonders for the fretboard! The guitar tech has it, so hopefully he'll sort it out, but he didn't really inspire me with any confidence. If all else fails, do you know of any good luthiers in and around south london?

Have a great holiday with the missus. It sounds like an adventure,

Cheers,

Mat[/quote]

Phone Chandler Guitars 0208 9405874 (not Charlie Chandler Experience) and ask to speak to Brinsley Schwartz, bear in mind he only works there Sat and Mon, he has recovered many written off basses and guitars in worst conditions than yours, broken necks, snapped headstocks, you name it. Their address is 302 Sandycombe Road, Kew Gardens, Richmond TW9 3NG. You can rest assured he will put it right.

[mashup]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' post='911567' date='Jul 31 2010, 11:54 PM']Phone Chandler Guitars 0208 9405874 (not Charlie Chandler Experience) and ask to speak to Brinsley Schwartz, bear in mind he only works there Sat and Mon, he has recovered many written off basses and guitars in worst conditions than yours, broken necks, snapped headstocks, you name it. Their address is 302 Sandycombe Road, Kew Gardens, Richmond TW9 3NG. You can rest assured he will put it right.[/quote]

Thankyou so much. Do you think that it's a job that he could do in a day or 2? We have a gig mid next week

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='mashup' post='911570' date='Jul 31 2010, 11:56 PM']Thankyou so much. Do you think that it's a job that he could do in a day or 2? We have a gig mid next week[/quote]

Very unlikely. You need to book and then it could be a 1 to 2 weeks wait if you're lucky, I get the same treatment despite being a close friend of his and of the Chandler family for over 25 years.
Look mate I tell you honestly there's hardly any luthier in town that operates a drop in, while you wait job, not that I know of at least, otherwise I'd be using them myself. Specially with Brinsley working only part time after his initial retirement he just does it cause he's the best there is in that trade, almost as a vocation, Chandler would be at a loss without him, the other 3 luthier that work there full time are ok but young and lack the experience Brinsley has.

Edited July 31, 2010 by Grand Wazoo

[Fat Rich]

A bit of a long shot but here goes....

Are the strings OK? Do you think the case squashed the strings over the frets and kinked them? If the strings have kinks in them that might cause tuning problems....

Hope it's something as simple as a string change or letting the neck settle and you can get it sorted quickly.

[Kiwi]

There are a number of luthiers within easy reach of south London who might be willing to help:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=26654"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=26654[/url]

Good luck!

[grumble]

[quote]ask to speak to Brinsley Schwartz[/quote]
Am I the only one to do a double take on this ?

[The Burpster]

My thoughts are that as the neck hasnt gone pop, that the strings were crushed.

IME srtings start to do odd things when they have considerable flatspots on them, (form an intonation point of view) especially roundwounds...!

I would be pretty confident stating that the neck hasnt bent as the pressure wasnt applied for long enough, although it is possible it may have bet the trussrod , however you would have noticed the action would had changed considerably.....

I hope its nowt serious, and keep us updated please.

Must have been a week for that kind of incident as my mates nephew ran over my golf clubs and bag in the cart that he was drving for his grandad. None of my clubs appear bent, but in fairness they were never in tune in the first place so they play better with the intonation all ove rthe shop...

[Mickeyboro]

[quote name='grumble' post='911605' date='Aug 1 2010, 01:13 AM']Am I the only one to do a double take on this ?[/quote]

Yeah same bloke but wrong spelling!

In the 70s he had a hundred pickups made with his name on. They put the intrusive t in and he flung them across the rehearsal room where they lay until people like me 'recycled' them.

I joined in a band Brinsley had just left a couple of years ago, but apart from this he seems to have retired from music.

[molan]

[quote name='Mickeyboro' post='911660' date='Aug 1 2010, 08:44 AM']Yeah same bloke but wrong spelling!

In the 70s he had a hundred pickups made with his name on. They put the intrusive t in and he flung them across the rehearsal room where they lay until people like me 'recycled' them.

I joined in a band Brinsley had just left a couple of years ago, but apart from this he seems to have retired from music.[/quote]

Is this the same Brinsley who used to play with Graham Parker?

Really nice guitarist if so!

[molan]

Forgot to say - I can lend you a bass if you've got an important gig coming up?

Most of my basses are 'out' at the moment but there's a 4 string Nash Jazz you could use?

Just keep your brother well away from it!

I'm about an hour's drive away I reckon

Edited August 1, 2010 by molan

[Lfalex v1.1]

Modern cases are quite good, even in the process of being damaged or destroyed, they often absorb a lot of energy that might otherwise have damaged the bass.

If everything looks okay- no cracks or obvious neck damage and no evidence of bridges/frets being compressed into woodwork, then I'd plump for the strings being damaged in such a way as to ruin the intonation/tuning.
If the strings are roundwound with hex cores, then it's likely that the force has not only distorted the outer windings but crimped or kinked the core too. That would definitely prevent the strings from ringing true.
Re-string it first, and see what gives from there. Good advice from everyone else, esp. Grand Wazoo, but not necessarily for the novice bass mechanic.
If after new strings (and possibly a rod tweak and definitely intonation) it's still off, it's time for a visit to a luthier or tech..

[mashup]

[quote name='Fat Rich' post='911578' date='Aug 1 2010, 12:16 AM']A bit of a long shot but here goes....

Are the strings OK? Do you think the case squashed the strings over the frets and kinked them? If the strings have kinks in them that might cause tuning problems....

Hope it's something as simple as a string change or letting the neck settle and you can get it sorted quickly.[/quote]


I hope that it's just the strings

[mashup]

[quote name='Crazykiwi' post='911588' date='Aug 1 2010, 12:34 AM']There are a number of luthiers within easy reach of south London who might be willing to help:

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=26654"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=26654[/url]

Good luck![/quote]

Excellent link. Thankyou very much for the help. Im calling a few Luthiers around my area right now, to see if i can get it fixed today,

Cheers

[mashup]

[quote name='The Burpster' post='911640' date='Aug 1 2010, 07:01 AM']My thoughts are that as the neck hasnt gone pop, that the strings were crushed.

IME srtings start to do odd things when they have considerable flatspots on them, (form an intonation point of view) especially roundwounds...!

I would be pretty confident stating that the neck hasnt bent as the pressure wasnt applied for long enough, although it is possible it may have bet the trussrod , however you would have noticed the action would had changed considerably.....

I hope its nowt serious, and keep us updated please.

Must have been a week for that kind of incident as my mates nephew ran over my golf clubs and bag in the cart that he was drving for his grandad. None of my clubs appear bent, but in fairness they were never in tune in the first place so they play better with the intonation all ove rthe shop...

[/quote]

Thanks for the advice mate. I really hope that it's just the strings that have gone. I would coinsider myself a very lucky man, and also quite rock & roll for the bass that you play to have been run over, but still work. Im sorry to hear about your clubs. I hope that you can still get many more hole in ones in the future

[mashup]

[quote name='molan' post='911667' date='Aug 1 2010, 09:00 AM']Forgot to say - I can lend you a bass if you've got an important gig coming up?

Most of my basses are 'out' at the moment but there's a 4 string Nash Jazz you could use?

Just keep your brother well away from it!

I'm about an hour's drive away I reckon[/quote]

You, my friend, are an absolute star. You dont even know me, yet you offer to lend me a bass for the gig. Unparalled kindness that proves that there really are some very nice people out there, with good Karma coming their way. I am trying to borrow a bass off of my drummers brother, so hopefully, i should be alright on that front, but i will take you up on your ionsanely kind offer, should i really have no other option.

The irony of the whole story is, that i sold my backup bass (an Aerodyne Jazz, that i had in the for sale section here) yesterday morning, and the bloke who bought it, came to pick it up, just before we headed off to our rehearsal, where my pride & joy got run over! Talk about bad timing! You couldn't make it up! Our next gig is only our 2nd gig, after putting years into writing the material, we're finally starting to get out there.

As to my brother, he was looking very solemn yesterday, after the incident. I didnt give him a hard time over it. I'll wait to see what the outcome is first. If you're interested, here's a link to a video of a song that we did at our 1st gig, a few weeks ago. My brother's the one on the left. The Bastard! Im the one playing the bass, funnily enough! The sound quality is not great, as it was recorded on a cheapo camcorder.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1COcEicGw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s1COcEicGw[/url]

Cheers,

Mat