Pitfalls of setting the band up as a business??

[Jamesemt]

The singer is wanting us to go official with our band as we've just done our first wedding and have a few more in the pipeline.

As I've got a full time job it will mean I pay 40% tax as I'm right at the new threshold already.

Can anyone give me advice? Is it worth seeing a financial advisor?

Also on a similar note, does anyone give out contracts for weddings? Thinking about writing one as we did our first wedding before being paid in full. I've already started it in the format of 'your commitment, our commitment'. Should I see a solicitor to confirm we are not dropping ourselves in trouble? Does anyone have a contract they could PM for me to look at?

Cheers guys

[goingdownslow]

I came across this doing a google...[url="http://www.garypowell.co.uk/healer/faqs.html"]This Link[/url]

[crez5150]

There's a lot of threads here about going pro/wedding bands/function bands etc..... Get yourself a good accountant, make sure you claim for everything, Never undersell yourself and get your website sorted out.... the links on the left hand side don't work for me

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='crez5150' post='881087' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:14 PM']There's a lot of threads here about going pro/wedding bands/function bands etc..... Get yourself a good accountant, make sure you claim for everything, Never undersell yourself and get your website sorted out.... the links on the left hand side don't work for me[/quote]

Cheers, I know the problems with the website. Are you trying to view the site with an IPhone?

[crez5150]

No but on an imac

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='crez5150' post='881097' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:20 PM']No but on an imac[/quote]

Can I ask what browser you are using? Bit of a quirk in the software I used...

[Gust0o]

The tax threshold sucks.

I'd be content to remain amateur, to be honest - unless it's a substantial additional income, so as to off-set the liability.

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='881101' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:24 PM']The tax threshold sucks.

I'd be content to remain amateur, to be honest - unless it's a substantial additional income, so as to off-set the liability.[/quote]

Tbh this is all just talk at the moment. We haven't really made any money yet, just wondering what the benefits are...

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='goingdownslow' post='881082' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:07 PM']I came across this doing a google...[url="http://www.garypowell.co.uk/healer/faqs.html"]This Link[/url][/quote]

Wow - think we need to up our game slightly

[hubrad]

If you're near that tax threshold, you can probably afford to make it into a self-funding yet official thing, i.e. spend all the musical income on musical gear - strings, instruments, stage gear etc.. hence no additional tax liability but officialdom is, bizarrely, happy!
Any income is technically of interest to HMRC, but they aren't the ogre that some make them out to be. Unless they find you first..

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='hubrad' post='881108' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:29 PM']If you're near that tax threshold, you can probably afford to make it into a self-funding yet official thing, i.e. spend all the musical income on musical gear - strings, instruments, stage gear etc.. hence no additional tax liability but officialdom is, bizarrely, happy!
Any income is technically of interest to HMRC, but they aren't the ogre that some make them out to be. Unless they find you first.. [/quote]

That's a good idea. Think we do need to speak to an accountant

[Stingray5]

Just thought I'd let you know your website links only seem to work in Internet Explorer (IE8), but not in Firefox, Chrome or Opera.
This might not have mattered as much a few years ago but as IE no longer has the market share it once had, you could be losing out somewhat.
Fyi, I'm on a PC running Windows XP and my own default browser is currently Firefox (3.6x).
Looking at your source code (which is very bloated), it looks like the site has been put together using a Microsoft Office program (was it Frontpage, Word, Publisher?).
There are better (and even free) ways to put a respectable website together.
Hope this helps.

[arsenic]

I have just tried in IE8 on W7 - everything works, but none of the graphics display properly.
Opera, as has been said, everything looks OK, but the L/H links don't work.
Looking at the state of the coding, you may be better off starting from scratch.

As for going official, I would start off by getting the web presence sorted, and then look at accountants and contracts etc - mainly because, in my opinion, there may be potential "customers", who will look at the site, and quickly move on elsewhere. If it were me, I would expect the website to reflect the band.

As has been said, and accountant can make all the difference to whether you pay the possible additional tax or not.

You may be better off seeing a solicitor to so out a contact - you want to ensure there are no loopholes - but it also needs to be simple to understand - again, too much legal jargon could put people off.

Anyway, that's just my 2p worth.

[WalMan]

[quote name='Gust0o' post='881101' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:24 PM']The tax threshold sucks.

I'd be content to remain amateur, to be honest - unless it's a substantial additional income, so as to off-set the liability.[/quote]Not really your call. If you're making money, you ought to be telling HMRC

[quote name='Jamesemt' post='881103' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:25 PM']Tbh this is all just talk at the moment. We haven't really made any money yet, just wondering what the benefits are...[/quote]
Doing it as a partnership will require submitting a partnership return to HMRC as well as personal returns. The partnership return has it's own set of penalties if you submit it late (£100 per partner) so can get expensive if you are lax with the paperwork. As a partnership all your individual expenses and claims for gear have to be made through the partnership return/accounts. Not necessarily a problem as individual claims can be unwound as part of the tax profit sharing arrangement, BUT you cannot have one partner with a profit & another a loss - which could be a problem if you get a new rig and bass in the year and the gets a packet of lozenges.

[quote name='hubrad' post='881108' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:29 PM']If you're near that tax threshold, you can probably afford to make it into a self-funding yet official thing, i.e. spend all the musical income on musical gear - strings, instruments, stage gear etc.. hence no additional tax liability but officialdom is, bizarrely, happy!
Any income is technically of interest to HMRC, but they aren't the ogre that some make them out to be. Unless they find you first.. [/quote]
You might even find that you have a loss once everything is factored in and you can claim a refund. But remember for capital items - like amps, intruments - when you stop you will need to value them (and not all gear loses value over time) and a tax liability could arise.

Worth checking out with an accountant who is familiar with musicians claims - if you're in the MU & get the quarterly mag there are a few that advertise. And do draw up some sort of partnership agreement. Happy bands can become squabbling bands (as can be seen from other threads) and if you haven't agreed how stuff is split / who gets what / etc in the good times it becomes a nightmare when it turns sour.

[OldGit]

[quote name='crez5150' post='881087' date='Jun 29 2010, 04:14 PM']There's a lot of threads here about going pro/wedding bands/function bands etc..... Get yourself a good accountant, make sure you claim for everything, Never undersell yourself and get your website sorted out.... the links on the left hand side don't work for me[/quote]


What he said, except the links work for me.
Jay you use a Mac don't you?

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=142&st=0&p=936&#entry936"]Wedding thread[/url]

[OldGit]

[quote name='Stingray5' post='881158' date='Jun 29 2010, 05:20 PM']There are better (and even free) ways to put a respectable website together.[/quote]

Sure but pay a pro about 2 wedding band fee's worth of money and you can get a great CMS driven effective website that drives your bookings hard enough to pay for itself easily in a few months and then generates bookings for decades...


Re tax: if you talk to the Musicians' Union they will give you huge list of stuff you can offset against tax. If you read it carefully and keep accurate books you will probably get a refund at the end of the year. You certainly won't be paying much out.

[bumnote]

You should always approach it in a business like manner unless you are jamming down the pub for nothing. As others have said, there are things you can claim for to offset against any earnings.

Find out what you can claim for, travel, equipment and all the other costs, and then keep receipts and records. I use an old program called quicken, and it shows all my incomings and outgoings over the years.

The most important thing is for you to sit down on a regular basis and record all those incomings and outgoings. Its easy enough to drag out the receipt for your bass or amp, but you wont remember the stamps for publicity, or the hire of a rehearsal space, the batteries for your effects, BGM from Smiths unless you make a habit of regularly entering these up.

Many years ago a friend of mine was caught as a solo organ player who used to play in a pub every couple of weeks. The IR caught up with him, and assesed his earnings as huge figure. Jack didnt even know how many times he had played there over the years, and there was talk that the landlord had been entering Jacks and other peoples gigs through the books far more times than they had actually played. He had to pay a fortune in back tax.

By and large Ive always found the revenue fairly reasonable, if you approach them in a reasonable manner

[thepurpleblob]

Just for the record I tried your website in Chrome, Safari and Firefox on a Mac and non worked (the links didn't work). Looks a bit like a saved HTML Word page or similar. That's not suitable for a public web page.

[Stingray5]

[quote name='OldGit' post='881226' date='Jun 29 2010, 06:45 PM']Sure but pay a pro about 2 wedding band fee's worth of money and you can get a great CMS driven effective website that drives your bookings hard enough to pay for itself easily in a few months and then generates bookings for decades...[/quote]
No argument there, OG, but as Jamesemt mentioned 'problems with his software', I figured it was a case of DIY (for now anyway?) and wanted to point out there are at least alternatives to Word, etc!

[OldGit]

[quote name='Stingray5' post='881411' date='Jun 29 2010, 09:58 PM']No argument there, OG, but as Jamesemt mentioned 'problems with his software', I figured it was a case of DIY (for now anyway?) and wanted to point out there are at least alternatives to Word, etc! [/quote]

Sure, sorry that sounded a bit brusque. James and I covered this subject way back and I suspect like a lot of people he has a problem convincing the band to invest in a decent Website.

[HMX]

I'd be willing to provide help/designs/coding for the website if you need it, TS.

[Jamesemt]

[quote name='HMX' post='881547' date='Jun 30 2010, 01:28 AM']I'd be willing to provide help/designs/coding for the website if you need it, TS.[/quote]

Yeah any help you could provide would be greatfully appreciated.

Thanks for all the advice. The website was done in Publisher as it's all I've got. I did try a couple of free packages but got very frustrated with them. We haven't really got the cash to pay for a pro website at the moment as we still have a few band things to pay for from gigs.

[OldGit]

[quote name='HMX' post='881547' date='Jun 30 2010, 01:28 AM']I'd be willing to provide help/designs/coding for the website if you need it, TS.[/quote]


Hi Carl.
There is clearly a need for a function band website template.
Could you build one any BC member could use?
I'd be happy to help.

[BigRedX]

If you are going to make a serious business of the band then sorting out the web site should be maximum priority.

If your band income relies on getting more bookings than you need a web site that works for everyone and that now includes people who want to look at your site on mobile devices. Lets face it there's plenty of bands in the market place and if someone looking to book a band for their event can't make your web site work, then they'll just go on to an band who's suite does work for them.

And while you're at it sort out the vertical scaling of the photo - it's not doing you any favours.

TBH it always amazes me that people aren't prepared to put some money and effort into getting their web site functioning and looking good - and doubly so when they are expecting to use it to make money for their business. Simply owning an application that purports to create web pages does not qualify you to actually be able to make something usable. You wouldn't hire someone to dep in your band simply because they own the correct instrument without firrst checking that they could actually play it!

[OldGit]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='881662' date='Jun 30 2010, 10:08 AM']If you are going to make a serious business of the band then sorting out the web site should be maximum priority.

If your band income relies on getting more bookings than you need a web site that works for everyone and that now includes people who want to look at your site on mobile devices. Lets face it there's plenty of bands in the market place and if someone looking to book a band for their event can't make your web site work, then they'll just go on to an band who's suite does work for them.

And while you're at it sort out the vertical scaling of the photo - it's not doing you any favours.

TBH it always amazes me that people aren't prepared to put some money and effort into getting their web site functioning and looking good - and doubly so when they are expecting to use it to make money for their business. Simply owning an application that purports to create web pages does not qualify you to actually be able to make something usable. You wouldn't hire someone to dep in your band simply because they own the correct instrument without firrst checking that they could actually play it![/quote]

+1

Whether you register your band as a business or not, you are still marketing a service and it is imperative that your website does the job.
If you are offering a professional band you need professional marketing. A self built website can do it, and there are, plenty of examples around, but you do need it to be good and effective.
Otherwise as BigRedX says, it's way too easy for the client to go back to google and move to the next band along...

You need to convince your band that investing a bit in decent photography and a good website will bring far greater rewards...

or learn WordPress CMS yourself