bassbluestew Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I wonder if Drummers have this arguement over the size of their kits..................I think not. S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 [quote name='bassbluestew' post='93481' date='Nov 23 2007, 06:58 PM']I wonder if Drummers have this arguement over the size of their kits..................I think not. S[/quote] I shudder to think what they may discuss! - Over to you Mike... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) ....and to (another of one of my favourite drummers) Bobby Rock as well. [url="http://www.bobbyrock.com"]www.bobbyrock.com[/url] If you can, get hold of a CD called "Snap, Crackle & Pop". It's a power trio featuring Bobby, Neil Zaza and Bill "The Buddha" Dickens on 6,7 & 9 string bass, it's just unbelievable !! Edited November 23, 2007 by 7string Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alun Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 [quote name='bass_ferret' post='93275' date='Nov 23 2007, 12:33 PM']+1 When I called it circus bass (or something similar) I got slated.[/quote] Yeah, the difference is that Steve is talking, as far as I can see, about the music created by some solo bassists - not what they create it on. As far as I remember you were referring to the instruments, regardless of what was being played on them. I would count some of Mark King's solos as "circus bass" - lots of high speed triplets that make bassists go "oo" and everyone else go "when is the chorus coming back in". Played on four string Trip Wamsley playing "Sweet Algebur" on his eight string ( with a plectrum) - very beautiful instrumental music As always, just my opinion Cheers, Alun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 (edited) Are we still here? IS this subject not dead yet? Can one of these ERB dismissers please show the rest of us,why they have a problem? In clear,definable detail.... SO we,the open eared and minded, can spend the next few days ripping the pi55 out of them.... please. (Self edited..the swearbox pansything was not switched on) Edited November 23, 2007 by ARGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted November 23, 2007 Share Posted November 23, 2007 I think it comes down to this - great music is great music no matter what it is played on. Who gives a f*** that Tony Levin plays stick on some Gabriel albums - I dont. Unfortunately most of the you-tube clips that get pasted onto basschat are circus bass, stunt bass or musical novelty acts - call it what you will. That shapes the opinions of people like me who's only exposure to ERB playing is the clips posted on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) Well then we cant help it if you are to stupid to see beyond that,If a trick shapes your opinion upon or of an instrument then thats such a shame that you are too closed minded to be beyond that. Ive seen similer 'trick' music played on 4 strings,on 5s,but its accepted because those instruments are common to the eye and easily seen day in/out by the musician ...and lets face it,to see an ERB IS quite eyecatching or at least grabbing the attention of the self,by its sheer physicality...Im experiencing it now,thats why Im not taking it out ..AT ALL at the moment....because its not a 'novelty' or an oddity to cause uproar or question...its an instrument made to be played and mastered. So Jean Baudin playing 'The Mario' theme tune,isnt a novelty..insomuch as Stu Hamm playing 'Moonlight Sonata' or Stuart Clayton doing 'Shape of my heart',its a novelty to anyone to have a Bass solo,on a gig,or in a song as much as it was to have the 'My Generation' break in the 60s. But times,as Ive said have moved on.....in an age where as the 30 or so years have past since the 'Stick' turned up as a "Novelty" act (An argueably LESS versatile instrument than the ERB) in the hands of the few. Difference is ONE company make 'The Stick',Its their trademark and apart from the Warr,and a few choice others,no-one I can think of actually makes anything similer or bothers to,possibly because of copyright infringments ,or maybe Emmett and Mark Warr just hit the nail on the head perfectly!?!? ANYONE can make an ERB (In fact things got better when the Novax patent ended) so all sorts of fun and wild design ideas are going to appear in the coming years,we even have a standard or possible benchmark in Bill Conklin's company...his 'no problem' building ethic is an inspiration for everyone. Was the Stick not as gimmicky upon the eye and mind,in its infancy? If Stanley Clarke or Victor Bailey or Jeff Berlin ,or Jaco played an ERB,your opinion would cease to exist,but the point is ..THEY DONT,and they are part of the past,there cutting edge days are gone,along with the music they made,its still there inspiring people as CD reissues,but its not the edge anymore. The music exists,you just dont want to hear it,or...and this is the bottom line ......accept it. Edited November 24, 2007 by ARGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted November 24, 2007 Share Posted November 24, 2007 (edited) Is THIS Bassplaying? [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uOs_kG8a5Eo"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uOs_kG8a5Eo[/url] Any less so than this [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BLm8Hx8jiW4"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BLm8Hx8jiW4[/url] or this? [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=js93qxDlIzg"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=js93qxDlIzg[/url] or maybe?? [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnGxASoXn0"]http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnGxASoXn0[/url] The answer is plainly..NO,its four different musicians,playing what they want to do,wether its with a band,on their own,or...well...anything. (RIP Sandman) Edited November 24, 2007 by ARGH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gypsymoth Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 four pages of this, Ok. I almost get five, but seven, I mean, what's the point? next thing you know, they will be 8 or 9 no one should have to justify what they play - or how they choose to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7string Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I have to say that, in my opinion, the first YouTube clip is exactly what people would call "circus bass". In my opinion, there is a great deal of technical prowess, but it purely played to amaze anybody passing by (and hence massage the ego of the player). This is exactly the kind of thing which puts people off of ERB's. Just mindless widdling. Mind you, it does give ACG basses a good deal of exposure !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setekh Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 man arent you people aggressive...and I mean some of you who are anti-ERB and pro-ERB... that a personal choice. whether you like playing it...or not. who doesnt like ERB is entitled to think they're a novelty act, and those who like should disagree. what's so mind-boggling about this? is there any need do start insulting each other? chill out... personally, I draw the line at 6 (ok...maybe 7 ) more than that I cant really see the point...but if you like playing basses with 8+ strings, by all means do it...you see something in them I dont Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 I do think we need to keep a cool here. Yes, *I* find it difficult to understand why there are some that can't accep the 'ERB' or the 'Chapman Stick' as viable forms of music making.. etc etc, insults are probably not going to help the discussion either way though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='ARGH' post='93944' date='Nov 24 2007, 09:33 PM']or maybe?? [url="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnGxASoXn0"]<a href="http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnGxASoXn0" target="_blank">http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=fXnGxASoXn0[/url]</a>[/quote] Wow Morphine! Bass, Baritone sax and Drums .. excellent! Thanks ARGH, there's a few CDs for the Christmas list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 There's a heck of a lot of negativity and aggression posted on this thread. I'd be really disappointed for a newbie to make this thread the first one they read on their first visit to BC, it makes us look like a bunch of froth-mouthed ranting bigots. People need educating not insulting and bullying and ARGH's approach sadly doesn't help the case he's trying to state, in fact it's probably having the reverse effect. My message to anyone who is skeptical about ERB is go a Steve Lawson gig, open your mind and absorb. Take a chill pill people, this forum used to be a nice place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='OldGit' post='94105' date='Nov 25 2007, 12:56 PM']Wow Morphine! Bass, Baritone sax and Drums .. excellent! Thanks ARGH, there's a few CDs for the Christmas list[/quote] 2 string bass played with a glass slide. (RIP Mark Sandman) I think the lp "Sharks patrol these waters" is the one you want,Very very cool I remember them doing a session on Mark and Lards show,late night when I was in School....they were gods! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alun Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 Slightly unrelated - I dug my glass slide out yesterday after listening to Robert Randolph playing pedal steel and had forgotten how utterly crap at slide playing I am! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Lawson Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='Alun' post='94231' date='Nov 25 2007, 06:39 PM']Slightly unrelated - I dug my glass slide out yesterday after listening to Robert Randolph playing pedal steel and had forgotten how utterly crap at slide playing I am![/quote] I've been playing a LOT of slide this year, after my friend [url="http://www.claudiozanghieri.com"]Claudio Zanghieri[/url] pulled one out in a jam we were having in Italy earlier this year - he sounded great with it, and as we were playing at a trade show in a music shop, I went and tried out as many different kinds of slide as I could - I found a heavy brass slide worked best on flatwound strings - can't vouch for roundwounds at all... Slide on bass is way cool, but it does take a fair amount of time to get comfortable with... Mark Sandman was a big influence to get into playing slide - there's a tune on my second album dedicated to him - [url="http://www.last.fm/music/Steve+Lawson/_/Exit+Sandman"]Exit Sandman[/url] - a sad loss indeed. On the subject of negativity, heading in both directions, my suggestion would be that posting we aim for clarity, humility and seek to liberate each other to play the music we hear in our heads rather than confine each other with discussions of what is and isn't acceptable for a bassist to do - as I mentioned in my previous post, ultimately all that matters is what comes out of the speakers. That doesn't render technical discussion invalid, far from it - it just means that the proof of the veracity of our claims about music and how it works are to be found in our own music, not on youtube... A preponderance of music not to my liking coming from a particular approach to the instrument doesn't invalidate the approach, it just suggests that it either doesn't work for me, or that the stuff that doesn't connect with me is the stuff that's getting the coverage. That goes for the music within a particular artist's catalogue... there are some players that I think make beautiful music who have some really uninspiring videos on youtube of them 'shredding' - they've chosen to get exposure that way, and save their beautiful music for other situations, and that's a marketing choice they've made. I can leave the wow-stuff to the wow-fans, and still greatly enjoy the music that engages my emotions to a greater degree. Those of you who've been dissing ERB will probably grow out of that when somebody makes some music using one that really connects with you, and those of you vigorously defending ERBs will probably do so with less ferocity when you've had a few more of your own prejudices exposed, and perhaps have a few more gigs to get ready for... It's all good, we're all friends and there's room in the bass-pool for all of us to do our thing. We just need to keep some perspective, and keep the goal as being the music. Great music is great music whether it's played on bass, banjo or accordian... with that, I'm going to go and start another thread to help focus our minds in that direction... Steve [url="http://www.stevelawson.net"]http://www.stevelawson.net[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Nimrod Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 (edited) [quote name='6stringbassist' post='94240' date='Nov 25 2007, 07:01 PM']"look I'm having a bass built by John Shuker"[/quote] Well I'm not ;-) I personally don't really care how many strings are on a Bass guitar... My preference is four - your mileage may vary - what's the argument? Don't dismiss the Forum, maybe this thread isn't a very good example. But BC is a great resource and full of knowledgeable players (not me btw!). Edited November 25, 2007 by David Nimrod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='6stringbassist' post='94240' date='Nov 25 2007, 07:01 PM']I have to say that this site does seem to be very old fashioned, it's not very friendly, and "look I'm having a bass built by John Shuker", probably why I don't come on here very often nowadays.[/quote] Sorry I am going to have to defend BassChat. I really can not see in anyway that it is old fashioned. The forum is 'made' by the people who use it.. and we have the very youngest to the wise elders on board, with a wealth of knowledge and experience. I could name plenty of other forums, whose users appear 'not friendly' ;o) I would invite you to tell the BassChat team what it is you don't like about the site... you are welcome here and I'm sure any views on improvement will be taken into consideration! As for the build diaries, you don't *have* to read them lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARGH Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='6stringbassist' post='94240' date='Nov 25 2007, 07:01 PM']I kind of liked the idea of a seperate section or ERB players, I didn't notice that thread until earlier today, its been locked I see. I have to say that this site does seem to be very old fashioned, it's not very friendly, and "look I'm having a bass built by John Shuker", probably why I don't come on here very often nowadays.[/quote] hmmm Best put suggestions about change to the board,they like it done via them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='dood' post='94263' date='Nov 25 2007, 07:35 PM']Sorry I am going to have to defend BassChat. I really can not see in anyway that it is old fashioned. The forum is 'made' by the people who use it.. and we have the very youngest to the wise elders on board, with a wealth of knowledge and experience. I could name plenty of other forums, whose users appear 'not friendly' ;o) I would invite you to tell the BassChat team what it is you don't like about the site... you are welcome here and I'm sure any views on improvement will be taken into consideration! As for the build diaries, you don't *have* to read them lol.[/quote] +1 Most people on here who frequent other forums say we are friendly and helpful by comparison (which I believe we are). If by old fashioned you mean we use normal English prose and no text speak, respect people's views and try to help as much as possible then I'm all for that. This particular thread does seem to have got a little unruly in certain areas but most of the forum is not like that. As Dood says: "I'm having a bass built by Jon Shuker" is just a very, very small part of the overall forum and you don't have to read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted November 25, 2007 Share Posted November 25, 2007 [quote name='Steve Lawson' post='94239' date='Nov 25 2007, 07:00 PM']Those of you who've been dissing ERB will probably grow out of that when somebody makes some music using one that really connects with you, and those of you vigorously defending ERBs will probably do so with less ferocity when you've had a few more of your own prejudices exposed, and perhaps have a few more gigs to get ready for... It's all good, we're all friends and there's room in the bass-pool for all of us to do our thing. We just need to keep some perspective, and keep the goal as being the music. Great music is great music whether it's played on bass, banjo or accordian... with that, I'm going to go and start another thread to help focus our minds in that direction...[/quote] Blimey, welcome back Mr Lawson. S'been a while innit? I think the ERB vs 4 strings thing is one of those situations that can feed on itself VERY easily and over what? An few extra strings? ERB players can sometimes come across to more traditional players as a bit pretentious when this may not actually be the case. On the other hand, 4 string players may be seen by ERB'ers as being unnecessarily conservative, which may not be the case. All it takes is one side to get defensive and lash out and it sets the other on a path to retaliation. As someone who plays both, I think both sides need to get a bit of altitude on the situation. This whole exchange is PRECISELY the reason why I didn't think creating an ERB forum would be a good idea. I like playing 4 strings because I can get so many well known sounds which is just perfect for covers. However there are many occasions when I need extra range and a trad bass isn't going to do it. They're tools for goodness sakes, seeing people fall out over an issue as inconsequential as this is like watching people argue over whether a hammer is better than a screwdriver and whether it requires more/less technique to use. Be happy people, c'mon there are far more deserving things to argue about. Lets see some impressive 8,9,10 string playing and have a debate about whether the instrument is being taken forward musically or not. Or alternatively, whether Steve Lawson would look better if he shaved his head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queenofthedepths Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 [quote name='OldGit' post='94342' date='Nov 25 2007, 11:38 PM']+1 Most people on here who frequent other forums say we are friendly and helpful by comparison (which I believe we are). If by old fashioned you mean we use normal English prose and no text speak, respect people's views and try to help as much as possible then I'm all for that. This particular thread does seem to have got a little unruly in certain areas but most of the forum is not like that. As Dood says: "I'm having a bass built by Jon Shuker" is just a very, very small part of the overall forum and you don't have to read it.[/quote] +1 [quote name='BeLow' post='94282' date='Nov 25 2007, 08:12 PM']The big questions for me are how long the debate can be prolonged and whether this or the smoking thread will produce anything useful whilst I am still breathing?[/quote] I think there are plenty of valuable opinions expressed in both of the threads, regardless of how badly some of them have been put forth - it's certainly opened my mind a bit and I've seen a few cool videos! As for prolonging the debate, I honestly don't think there ever was a debate... the ERB question, like all things musical, has always been and always will be a matter of opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 I think the thread has run its course... and not really arrived at any worthy conclusion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
setekh Posted November 26, 2007 Share Posted November 26, 2007 [quote name='dood' post='94368' date='Nov 26 2007, 01:47 AM']I think the thread has run its course... and not really arrived at any worthy conclusion![/quote] was anyone expecting that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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