bassbloke Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 Do any of you have formal, written band agreements covering royalties, investment, disputes? If so, how have they worked for you? Have ou ever needed to involve the MU or similar to assist with settling disputes? If so, were they helpful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='bassbloke' post='761608' date='Mar 2 2010, 10:44 AM']Do any of you have formal, written band agreements covering royalties, investment, disputes? If so, how have they worked for you? Have ou ever needed to involve the MU or similar to assist with settling disputes? If so, were they helpful?[/quote] Are you anticipating trouble or have you just had trouble?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 I have a large bit of wood with a nail in it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='thepurpleblob' post='761626' date='Mar 2 2010, 10:59 AM']Are you anticipating trouble or have you just had trouble??[/quote] Not really. However, band is gaining profile - bigger gigs, endorsements, etc... but still at the stage where investment is required from individual band members (merchandise, backdrops, photoshoots, web hosting) so we're considering a formal agreement setting out expectations, etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='bassbloke' post='761649' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:16 AM']Not really. However, band is gaining profile - bigger gigs, endorsements, etc... but still at the stage where investment is required from individual band members (merchandise, backdrops, photoshoots, web hosting) so we're considering a formal agreement setting out expectations, etc...[/quote] It's a very good plan as it can be surprising how people show their colours when money is to be divided (also possible for it to all be cool tho) The MU have information on this. I used to be a committee member but that's a few years ago now. I would recommend all of you looking into what the current info from the union is and if they will offer advice (they may even have standard agreements) then join. There are plenty of other benefits too, the best of which is £10m public liability insurance for each member. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='bassbloke' post='761649' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:16 AM']Not really. However, band is gaining profile - bigger gigs, endorsements, etc... but still at the stage where investment is required from individual band members (merchandise, backdrops, photoshoots, web hosting) so we're considering a formal agreement setting out expectations, etc...[/quote] IIRC from lectures on music business/management and all that, if you're playing and earning money together from gigs, you're assumed to be in a [i]de facto[/i] business partnership. That means (among many, many other things) that you're jointly and severally liable for each other's debts until you draw up a partnership agreement that dictates otherwise. If you're talking significant investments -- and it looks like you are -- you should draw up a partnership agreement ASAP. And of course, the partnership and all its members should be submitting an annual tax return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WalMan Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='761672' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:39 AM']IIRC from lectures on music business/management and all that, if you're playing and earning money together from gigs, you're assumed to be in a [i]de facto[/i] business partnership. That means (among many, many other things) that you're jointly and severally liable for each other's debts until you draw up a partnership agreement that dictates otherwise. If you're talking significant investments -- and it looks like you are -- you should draw up a partnership agreement ASAP. And of course, the partnership and all its members should be submitting an annual tax return.[/quote] As above if you are getting to that stage it really is worth getting a partnership agreement set up sooner rather than later. If not you will end up covered by legislation that is over 100 years old. I'm sure everyone has heard of royalties cases like The Smiths, and more recently for A Whiter Shade of Pale, that have rumbled on for years and where probably the only winners are the lawyers. Get everything agreed now while you're all talking, 'cos a few years down the line when the singer has been through the rest of the bands g/f's, the guitarist says he wrote all the songs when everyone elses recollection is that is was a group effort, and none of you are talking except through lawyers a bit of paper that covers the business aspects and was agreed in the good times will be a godsend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassbloke Posted March 2, 2010 Author Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='WalMan' post='761781' date='Mar 2 2010, 01:41 PM']As above if you are getting to that stage it really is worth getting a partnership agreement set up sooner rather than later. If not you will end up covered by legislation that is over 100 years old. I'm sure everyone has heard of royalties cases like The Smiths, and more recently for A Whiter Shade of Pale, that have rumbled on for years and where probably the only winners are the lawyers. Get everything agreed now while you're all talking, 'cos a few years down the line when the singer has been through the rest of the bands g/f's, the guitarist says he wrote all the songs when everyone elses recollection is that is was a group effort, and none of you are talking except through lawyers a bit of paper that covers the business aspects and was agreed in the good times will be a godsend.[/quote] Check out our myspace page. I would dearly love to see our singer get in on with some of our wives/girlfriends No, no, that's sexist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny-lad Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='jakesbass' post='761658' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:24 AM']It's a very good plan as it can be surprising how people show their colours when money is to be divided (also possible for it to all be cool tho) The MU have information on this. I used to be a committee member but that's a few years ago now. I would recommend all of you looking into what the current info from the union is and if they will offer advice (they may even have standard agreements) then join. There are plenty of other benefits too, the best of which is £10m public liability insurance for each member.[/quote] The MU offer a Partnership agreement for bands, as well as advice, free of charge, if everyone in the band is a member of the MU. Without an agreement, the group would be covered by the Partnership Act 1890. +1 to all the other benefits of MU membership too - AFAIK, to get a £10m public liability insurance policy on it's own would cost more than the cost of joining the MU, so it's well worth it for that alone IMO. IIRC, the MU has also recently introduced some kind of personal injury insurance for it's members as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plumbob Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Low End Bee' post='761630' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:00 AM']I have a large bit of wood with a nail in it.[/quote] Love it !!! Were so correct these days , the old ways were better , and so much more fun !! Nothing quite like tearing after a drummer with a piece of 4" bee 2 " ha ! ha ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussFM Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='761672' date='Mar 2 2010, 12:39 PM']And of course, the partnership and all its members should be submitting an annual tax return.[/quote] Oh wait... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickH Posted March 2, 2010 Share Posted March 2, 2010 [quote name='Low End Bee' post='761630' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:00 AM']I have a large bit of wood with a nail in it.[/quote] Cliff Da Drumma FTW! Band With Rocks In 4 eva! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='761672' date='Mar 2 2010, 11:39 AM']IIRC from lectures on music business/management and all that, if you're playing and earning money together from gigs, you're assumed to be in a [i]de facto[/i] business partnership. That means (among many, many other things) that you're jointly and severally liable for each other's debts until you draw up a partnership agreement that dictates otherwise. If you're talking significant investments -- and it looks like you are -- you should draw up a partnership agreement ASAP. And of course, the partnership and all its members should be submitting an annual tax return.[/quote] Exactly! A lot of the rules for partnerships are really counter-productive for bands. It's worth knocking one out just to counteract the unfavourable rules for partnerships. These things can split bands up though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomEndian Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='The Funk' post='762919' date='Mar 3 2010, 01:30 PM']These things can split bands up though![/quote] Wheat/chaff, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Funk Posted March 3, 2010 Share Posted March 3, 2010 [quote name='BottomEndian' post='762924' date='Mar 3 2010, 01:33 PM']Wheat/chaff, no?[/quote] Agreed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I feel convinced by the MUs arguments for having Partnership Agreements. Even in a covers band you need to protect your instrument and backline against alleged band debt. Has anyone been faced with band members who won't go along with it? What did you do? EDIT: I once asked someone I agreed to set up a duo with to sign one. The answer was a flat refusal with a "Youre saying you don't trust me" attitude. We never played together again. Edited January 26, 2012 by musophilr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earbrass Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='The Funk' timestamp='1267623042' post='762919'] It's worth knocking one out just to counteract the unfavourable rules for partnerships. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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