Any advice on playing fretless?

[patch006]

Hi!

I am due to take ownership of a thumb bass 6 fretless, this will be my first fretless and I am jumping in at the deep end.
Have any of you got any good advice for starting out on fretless?

Are there any of you in the south west area willing to help me out and point me in the right direction, may be get a few of us together! I am left handed so if there are any lefties around the south west want to come along and have a go too.

Any help, advice would be greatly apreciated!

Patch

[jamesbass116]

i have the perfect sheet that might help you..
it's one that my bass teacher gave me when he gave me a lesson on fretless.
It basically just gives tips on how to practice with it, and some recommended listening.

i can scan and post on here if you want?

James

[patch006]

Yes James that would be great, Thanks

[jamesbass116]

[quote name='jamesbass116' post='732125' date='Feb 1 2010, 07:55 PM']i can scan and post on here if you want?[/quote]

Actually, i could just type the stuff down on here...

[u]Fretless Tips[/u]

-Practice in pitch-black/blindfold whatever takes your fancy, as long as you can't see the fretboard

-Practice Scales, use open strings to get an idea of an in-tune scale, then move on to full neck scales once the ear has developed. (.....i was rubbish with scales on fretless )

-Practice intervals - 8ves, 7ths, 6ths, 5ths, 4ths, 3rds,

-Play it like a fretted bass. i.e - don't go sliding up and down to the notes because it's possible to do so.

-Mess about/experiment with sound envelope by plucking with different intensity and in different positions.

-It might say to play the fretless like a fretted, but mess about by taking full advantage of the lack of frets!

[u]Reccomended Listening[/u]

Japan (Mick Carn on bass) - Oil on Canvas

Paul Young - no parle

Joni Mitchell (w/ [b]Jaco pastorius[/b]):

Hejira
Mingus
Shadows and Light - 'Dry cleaner from Des Moines' <- Stand out track


Just a reminder, it's all stuff recommended by my bass teacher so i'm not to blame if any of it sounds a bit silly

Hope this helps!!

James

[ghigo85]

Just work on your tuning with your ears.

Use the open strings for helping your ear and study slowly the positions.
Keep the left hand in position, avoid useless movements of your fingers.


If you want I put some fretless lesson on Playbassnow.com ...

[url="http://playbassnow.com/author/guidoponzini/"]http://playbassnow.com/author/guidoponzini/[/url]

[MIJ-VI]

[quote name='jamesbass116' post='732152' date='Feb 1 2010, 03:15 PM']Actually, i could just type the stuff down on here...

[u]Fretless Tips[/u]

-Practice in pitch-black/blindfold whatever takes your fancy, as long as you can't see the fretboard

-Practice Scales, use open strings to get an idea of an in-tune scale, then move on to full neck scales once the ear has developed. (.....i was rubbish with scales on fretless )

-Practice intervals - 8ves, 7ths, 6ths, 5ths, 4ths, 3rds,

-[u]Play it like a fretted bass.[/u] i.e - don't go sliding up and down to the notes because it's possible to do so.

-Mess about/experiment with sound envelope by plucking with different intensity and in different positions.

-It might say to play the fretless like a fretted, but mess about by taking full advantage of the lack of frets!

[u]Reccomended Listening[/u]

Japan (Mick Carn on bass) - Oil on Canvas

Paul Young - no parle

Joni Mitchell (w/ [b]Jaco pastorius[/b]):

Hejira
Mingus
Shadows and Light - 'Dry cleaner from Des Moines' <- Stand out track


Just a reminder, it's all stuff recommended by my bass teacher so i'm not to blame if any of it sounds a bit silly

Hope this helps!!

James[/quote]

Addendum: play ON the imaginary frets.

[Bilbo]

Don't build it up to be anything especially difficult - 10 million vioinists, viola players, cellists and double bass players can't all be geniuses. Practice it like a fretted bass but just be aware of the intonation (your fingering needs to be more accurate than it needs to be playing fretted). A good fretted player should be able to convert to fretless in a few hours. It ain't rocket science. Its the same notes, the same scales, the same theory.

Remember if you can't hear yourself live, you probably aren't playing in tune.

And the playing in the dark thing? He's having you on.

[jamesbass116]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='732553' date='Feb 2 2010, 09:07 AM']And the playing in the dark thing? He's having you on.[/quote]

I was given the tips from my bass teacher, who played fretless exclusively for about 10 years of his gigging life..

I'm not posting to make fun of or offend anyone.. just to pass on whatever small bits of knowledge i have.

Sorry for the mini rant, but i just want to help people

James

[MIJ-VI]

Bloody do-gooder! ^

- A former fretless player.

[Bilbo]

No worries. I wasn't having a dig - most of what he says is useful. I have played fretless pretty much exclusively for 24 years and the playing in the dark thing is like tennis ball squeezing. It kind of makes sense but, in reality, it is basically useless. The skills you require to play fretless are nothing to do with the available light just as the strength you need to play an electric bass was available to you at around age 3 or 4.

There is only one way to bass nirvana, fretted or fretless. Hours of tedious, boring, repetitive and wonderful practice.

[jamesbass116]

Ha sorry for the misunderstanding then!

I suppose i should've been more specific with the whole dark thing anyway. Playing in the dark is more of an ear training thing i suppose, (Similar to just not looking at the fretboard when playing), Getting the right intonation incase there's ever a lack of light at gigs and what-not.. then again my bass teacher's crazy (in a good way) so that's probably why he thought of the idea!!

But yeah.. good practice schedules are the way to becoming a better bassist.

[fatback]

+1 Anchor that thumb. That is, always be in a definite position, not slithering about.

Are the side markers in the right places on that bass? I guess they would be on a quality machine, but if they're not move them so they're in fret positions rather than between the (imaginary) frets.

[quote]Remember if you can't hear yourself live, you probably aren't playing in tune.[/quote]

That's why I like a lined board, even though it doesn't look so cool.

[Dr.Dave]

[quote name='jamesbass116' post='732152' date='Feb 1 2010, 08:15 PM']-Play it like a fretted bass. i.e - don't go sliding up and down to the notes because it's possible to do so.

James[/quote]

Amen to that !

Have a good old slide about for an hour or so - in private! - and get it out of your system. Then you can think about a slide when it tastefully adds something to the song you're playing which is a harder and more useful thing than wizzing about out of novelty value.

[Jerry_B]

[quote name='fatback' post='732692' date='Feb 2 2010, 11:13 AM']That's why I like a lined board, even though it doesn't look so cool.[/quote]

After a while I've found a lined fretboard is a distraction, once you get the hang of playing a fretless. If anything I'd say it may be better to start off on an unlined one, to really get to grips with the technique and tricks required. After all, you still have the dots on the top of the neck as a reference point.

[Malc62]

Agree with the point about playing it like a fretted and not sliding all over the shop. The band still take the p*** out of me for an old demo tape on which I "enhanced" the song "The Lady Is A Tramp" by sliding up or down to virtually every note. Cringe city.

My preference was always blank fingerboards rather than lined ones. Blank ones looked daunting at first until I figured that the side dots were exactly in line with where I had to put my fingers. Oh yes, and I don't know if I was making rod for my back, but I sometimes practised in a dark room.

Mal

[Paul S]

Speaking as a fretless newbie, I have been played the thing in isolation at home for some months and, er, fretted that I would never get the hang of it after listening to all those recordings by the masters. Taught myself the beginning of 'Wherever I lay My Hat', then did silly Clangers impersonations. Then last week I did exactly as folks here have said - took it along to rehearsal and pretended it was a fretted bass. Much better, and it has cured me of my fear of it. Once you have got your head around the slightly different intonation it is fine - and the difference in tone is lovely. Well, for some stuff, anyway. But as an exercise in getting to grips with it I don't think that approach can be bettered.

[peted]

I picked up a Tanglewood unlined fretless off of Ebay for under £100 just to give it a go and cure any fear of fretless. After a few hours of practice at home I took it along to a band rehearsal and was fine with it. As much fun as it was I decided that fretted was best for the stuff I was playing. Will definitely treat myself to a quality fretless one day.

[patch006]

Hi all, thanks for the little tips!

I am now the proud owner of my very first fretless! lefty 6 string warwick thumb bass. It sounds absolutly awesome, I'm loving it!.

Like I said before, if there are any lefties in the south west that haven't tried a fretless and wish to do so then give me a shout. Decent lefty basses are hard to find at the best of times let a lone a monster like this.

Patch

[Steve A]

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this but I'm a bit tipsy and can't be bothered to read through the entire thread!

I often found it useful to record a drone of a certain pitch or chord and then practise playing melodies and improvisations over that note/chord to practise playing in tune.

Use open strings to gauge your pitch to compare to fretted notes.

Try and play as much fretless as you can (the ideal is to play it exclusively but of course that isn't always possible) if you want to get good good at it. It's a combination of ear development and muscle memory that can only be attained by regular practise and repetition.

Hope this helps (says someone who regretfully had to sell his beloved fretless to buy a new car last month )

[Doddy]

I've got to agree with Bilbo on the playing in the dark thing-it's rubbish. Why would you choose to limit
one of your senses? Like I've said before,if you want to avoid looking at the 'board (on either fretted or
fretless) put a chart in front of you and read it. It's much more beneficial to your playing.
Familiarity of the 'board will come naturally with practise.

I play a lined fretless and have noticed that by playing right on the line you will be out of tune. In the
lower positions you should be slightly in front of the line,while high up the neck you should be slightly
behind.

[urb]

[quote name='Doddy' post='742247' date='Feb 11 2010, 04:27 PM']I've got to agree with Bilbo on the playing in the dark thing-it's rubbish. Why would you choose to limit
one of your senses? Like I've said before,if you want to avoid looking at the 'board (on either fretted or
fretless) put a chart in front of you and read it. It's much more beneficial to your playing.
Familiarity of the 'board will come naturally with practise.

I play a lined fretless and have noticed that by playing right on the line you will be out of tune. In the
lower positions you should be slightly in front of the line,while high up the neck you should be slightly
behind.[/quote]


+1

I play a lined fretless and while I have tried unlined necks I prefer being able to adjust my intonation visually rather than always hitting and hoping - and if it's good enough for Gary Willis it's good enough for me:



I agree with Bilbo as well - just practice it like a normal bass - and play along with a backing chord or notes - a sustained chord on a keyboard is good - and if you can match the tonality exactly then you're basically playing in tune. The biggest compliment I ever received for my fretless playing was from soneone in the jazz combo I was playing with saying "i didn't realise your bass was fretless" as I was actually playing in tune... but it's been a long time since I gigged it now!

M

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='jamesbass116' post='732152' date='Feb 1 2010, 08:15 PM']-Play it like a fretted bass. i.e - don't go sliding up and down to the notes because it's possible to do so.[/quote]
I'd say this is a really good tip for getting started on fretless - practice doing on the fretless what you can already do on fretted - it's certainly what I did.

Having said that, the slide can help in finding the intonation when simply jumping to the note can be slightly off.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Doddy' post='742247' date='Feb 11 2010, 04:27 PM']I play a lined fretless and have noticed that by playing right on the line you will be out of tune. In the
lower positions you should be slightly in front of the line,while high up the neck you should be slightly
behind.[/quote]
I'm using an unlined Precision now but when I had a lined Jazz I noticed this same thing - Gary Willis refers to it on his website too.

There have been a couple of threads on BC where I asked if anyone could explain why this was the case but no one seemed to have an answer and others denied that it was so.

[Jerry_B]

Yep, I've never heard an adequate explanation for that effect either. But once you remember it as a rule it doesn't take all that long to absorb it into your playing. I must admit that when I used a lined fretless my brain would switch back to thinking I was playing a fretted bass, so when I actually bought a fretless for the first time (and ever since then) I've always gone for an unlined fretless.

[thisnameistaken]

I used to have a lined-ish fretless (removed the frets myself and tried to match the rosewood with the filler but it wasn't quite spot-on) but I always preferred unlined boards, they just look much classier to me.

I don't think it makes any difference if you play it often enough, you'll (or your fingers will) know where the notes are. Unless you're tone-deaf in which case you shouldn't be playing any instrument at all...