ahpook Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 i wonder why it isn't handled another way - in noisy industrial environment, workers have to wear ear defenders. why don't the venues issue their staff with hearing protection, like the in-ear buds a lot of us wear anyway. just a random thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='ahpook' post='671851' date='Dec 2 2009, 09:33 AM']i wonder why it isn't handled another way - in noisy industrial environment, workers have to wear ear defenders. why don't the venues issue their staff with hearing protection, like the in-ear buds a lot of us wear anyway. just a random thought.[/quote] Its normally some old bloke 2 miles down the road who turns his hearing aid right up and sticks his head out of the window that complains. Maybe the venues could offer to double glaze all the houses in the local area. just an even more random thought. Edited December 2, 2009 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='671869' date='Dec 2 2009, 09:45 AM']Its normally some old bloke 2 miles down the road who turns his hearing aid right up and sticks his head out of the window that complains. Maybe the venues could offer to double glaze all the houses in the local area. just an even more random thought.[/quote] um...ok. i was just musing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='ahpook' post='671878' date='Dec 2 2009, 09:50 AM']um...ok. i was just musing.[/quote] Ah sorry, i thought you were having a larf. No offence meant. The sound meters aren't for the staff, its normally to keep the locals happy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='671882' date='Dec 2 2009, 09:55 AM']Ah sorry, i thought you were having a larf. No offence meant. The sound meters aren't for the staff, its normally to keep the locals happy.[/quote] ok...fair doos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) Last time we chatted about this it became clear that there are two types of sound limiters - the ones that have been around for years that power off the stage and the newer ones that monitor the levels inside the venue for 'elfin safety reasons for their staff. These two types should be considered separately. It is clear that some venues should not have live music as they have a noise ASBO and have upset their neighbours. That is fair enough. No one wants to have thumping bass hammering through their kids bedroom until 1am every Friday and Saturday (or 7 days a week from a disco) However a good many of the "stage power off" systems are calibrated so low that, as many have said, the crowd laughing will trip them. These venues have to be avoided or you end up with a disrupted night and a crowd/bride and groom/etc that just won't understand why you have to keep stopping mid song or playing rock and roll quieter than a mouse f@rt... It can really spoil a wedding reception and no one wants to do that. It's part of my job as the person talking to the punter to help a B&G, for example, understand the problems they may face if they have a venue with a limiter. We often do that and some weddings move venues after talking to us. We also do it for marquee weddings. I understand you point, Jennifer, but sometimes they just book the wrong band for the venue. It's not always about volume, or ego, control in the band. We are not a loud band but we do have a drummer. Some of the alternatives to us (other ceilidh bands) don't and they are the ones I direct punters too if they have booked a venue with a limiter. It's just practical. No one at all would enjoy us at mouse f@rt volume or winging on about the sound limiter all night and we certainly won't enjoy the gig as much as the possible alternative. We are mostly not making a living at this so we probably have different priorities. and so far we have filled our booking diary with gigs whilst avoiding such venues. Edited December 2, 2009 by OldGit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer61 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='669878' date='Nov 30 2009, 11:52 AM']Yeah, we sometimes take a feed from the kitchen without the venue staff knowing. In fact sometimes we get told to do this by the venue staff.[/quote] +1 it's the only way to beat 'em. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) [quote name='farmer61' post='672000' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:10 PM']+1 it's the only way to beat 'em.[/quote] One thing we like to do is finish the last set with a nice loud, 10 sec burst of rock ending. That not only cuts the power but also makes it impossible to do an encore ;-) Edited December 2, 2009 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='672011' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:25 PM']One thing we like to do is finish the last set with a nice loud, 10 sec burst of rock ending. The not only cuts the power but also makes it impossible to do an encore ;-)[/quote] Genius! Sound limiters are a pain and we have turned down a gig where the venue had them, the threshold was set at 60 or 72db IIRC, which is ridiculous as you can shout that loud! Running a power supply to a different ring main is a way around it (kitchens are good), but some venues are not so accomodating as to let you use this solution. If people stop booking venues due to these contraptions, then the venues will soon stop having them installed or bypass them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumnote Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 There are a number of clubs we play in that have these things fitted, and all because of complaints from neighbours, and a requirement by the authority to keep the volume to a certain level in a particular place. In all cases it has been a requirement from the authorities and not so far for ealth and safety mate. Some of the clubs have been hosting live music for 40 odd years, and its only recently that these things have become more common apart from in certain sensitive areas. They are all supposed to be adjustable for both volume and time so that a peak will not set them off. If they are not set right, they are almost impossible to play with and we hav had them set off y the audience, and we have found no way apart from completely by passing them. Our drummer bought a flat kit which helps, and its good discipline for us sometimes to try to keep the volume down. Sometimes its certain frequencies that seem to set them off, and in 1 venue its very sensitive to guitar, so he has to play very quietly ha ha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 We have done a holiday camp this year where, for the first time in so many years they have a limiter installed in the main entertainment room. Fair enough we thought and we sound checked while keeping an eye on the meter. We though we were doing ok as it rarely peaked (and we were doing I predict a riot) but were told by the staff that we were a bit loud, mainly the drums. It seems that at certain points in the evening the security guards have to go to designated houses around the camps perimeter and if they can hear any music we have to turn down. The meter seems to have been installed and set too high and by the sound of it the soundproofing is rubbish. We got asked three times to turn down during the evening, even though the limiter wasn't peaking. In the end we were asked, very apologetically, by the staff to finish our set early as we couldn't get the sound low enough. We were also asked to play some quiet, slow songs most of the night as the audience were too noisy. Not very fair on the holiday makers in our opinion. Then again, they all looked pretty miserable anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I haven't yet played at a gig with a meter that trips when someone laughs but I suppose it'll happen one day! Our favourite is to run a lead from the socket the cigarette machine is plugged into. We've found that management usually aren't bothered but you can get a "jobsworth", then you and they just have to deal with playing quietly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebasshead Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) We played one venue where the staff told us not to worry about the sound limiter until 11pm, apparently it didn't come into play until then. Not sure how that works, no-one's mentioned a version with a timer built in but it did seem to be an eminently sensible technical solution that might, just might, make these appalling devices viable. Sure enough it was in the red all the way through our gig but it didn't cut out once and we finished before 11 anyway. Anyone come across one of these timed ones before? Or were the bar staff just mistaken? Edited December 2, 2009 by stevebasshead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 (edited) You can get version that integrate with Crestron and AMX so yes they can be set to activate at certain times Edited December 2, 2009 by crez5150 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='671999' date='Dec 2 2009, 12:02 PM']It's part of my job as the person talking to the punter to help a B&G, for example, understand the problems they may face if they have a venue with a limiter. We often do that and some weddings move venues after talking to us. We also do it for marquee weddings. I understand you point, Jennifer, but sometimes they just book the wrong band for the venue. It's not always about volume, or ego, control in the band.[/quote] Thanks for the illumination - you make many good points, I just thought the thread was getting somewhat too black and white in its assesment of these devices. Perhaps it is better for a venue to be allowed to have quiet live music as opposed to no live music whatsoever, and if these devices allow this to happen they may not be so universally bad. I'm sure we all have experience of being the wrong band booked for a venue... Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 [quote name='endorka' post='672183' date='Dec 2 2009, 03:37 PM']Perhaps it is better for a venue to be allowed to have quiet live music as opposed to no live music whatsoever, and if these devices allow this to happen they may not be so universally bad.[/quote] Absolutely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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