bethnalgreen Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Played a wedding gig last night and they had one of those elf 'n' safety sound monitors on the wall. So as we're playing and rocking through the greens, into the amber and single red, we then back off to avoid the double red and power cut! Managed to stay alive all night, but has anyone any hit double top and been wiped out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 Yeah we don't play venues with those now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 We have a clause in our client agreements that we are not responsible for disruption due to spl limiters..... worst experience I've had is at Knebworth House where we lost power 9 times in the first set. Very poorly installed system as most are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 (edited) We have had the power go off due to the crowd dancing or clapping. No matter how quiet we were they we louder than us. The one at Braxted park is apparently set for frequency rather than overall SPL and it seems to be centred around D. The first gig we did after they had it installed i was asked to try and avoid playing D. When i asked which one due to them all being on different frequencies i was told all of them lol. Edited November 30, 2009 by dave_bass5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Likewise, we don't touch venues with those any more - the last time we did, the DJ we were sharing the stage with lost a mixer as it just cuts the power. Bloody useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Who makes these bits of cr@p? As musicians we should band together and hound them out of business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moos3h Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I wish... The frustrating thing is that they should only be allowed to be installed, like speed cameras (supposedly) where there is a proven issue with sound disruption. I know Knebworth House well, as crez mentions and it's ridiculous - just because there are supposedly residents. Why hire out a venue with the intention of being able to offer live music, and have one of these things. As such, like crez, it is in our contract that we don't play anywhere with these things any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Some venues with these installed may have other power sockets available to use... [i]Apparently[/i] the Old Tramshed in Saltaire may be such a venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 [quote name='Adrenochrome' post='669875' date='Nov 30 2009, 11:49 AM']Some venues with these installed may have other power sockets available to use... [i]Apparently[/i] the Old Tramshed in Saltaire may be such a venue.[/quote] Yeah, we sometimes take a feed from the kitchen without the venue staff knowing. In fact sometimes we get told to do this by the venue staff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlonBass Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 No alternative power supply? No Band-end of argument. I've had an enthusiastically-played snare 'trip' one of these, BEFORE it was mic'd up. With the price of Equipment these days, there is no way I am going to take the chance of losing any to power cuts or surges caused by one of these things. If you have to install one, there's a good chance you shouldn't be having Live Music in your Venue in the first place. (IMHO) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayfan Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 These things are a menace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 [quote name='BigRedX' post='669836' date='Nov 30 2009, 10:50 AM']Who makes these bits of cr@p?[/quote] These people. [url="http://www.formula-sound.com/nc-overview.php"]http://www.formula-sound.com/nc-overview.php[/url] and - [url="http://www.castlegroup.co.uk/noise-activated-warning/view-all-products.html"]http://www.castlegroup.co.uk/noise-activat...l-products.html[/url] - the originators of the electronic orange. Them and perhaps 2 or 3 others. Don't blame these guys. Blame the venue operators who haven't upgraded their systems. The old fashioned/obsolete red,yellow and green light devices [u]on their own[/u] are useless. Balcro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 We do specify that we don't play any venue with a sound limiter, or a noise ASBO due to annoyed neighbours and the booking person confirms all that before we take the booking. However we've had two in the last few years where this seems to have slipped their mind. At one we knew more about the installation than the owner or manager of the venue and just went around it. It was on red all night, even when we weren't playing, just from the crowd laughing and clinking glasses ... The other one we ran off the kitchen but were told in no uncertain terms that is we did that again we'd "never play in this [s]town[/s] venue again" Last time we discussed this there was time of a time coming when all venues would need them for staff elfin' safety. i do hope that's gone away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Personally (and i know im in the minority) we would never turn a gig down just because of a sound meter. yes, its a headache sometimes but so is turning down £200+ each. We make sure the bride and groom know the meter is there and what will happen if it trips but end of the day, its not our fault if it does and we arent even playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 We have an up and coming corporate do (for where I work) and I had a look at the venue and damn me but they have one hanging from the ceiling about 10ft from the stage area. I was wondering if whether we could unplug the mic from the cable where it is fixed to the ceiling, or turn the mic so it faces away from the band, or possibly gaffa a bar towel around the mic. Do you think the later might work? It's ceratinly going to muffle what is picked up. I'm stressed about it now as I'm up on stage in front of my peers, work mates and some higher management! Wonder if ther'll be a P45 waiting for me at the end of the gig! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Depends on what type of system they have installed.... if its a constant monitor system unplugging the mic will activate an alarm sensor which will not be good. We have gaff taped over mics before but it's not that effective really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marky L Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 I'm not sure what type of system it is. I'm thinking unpluging the mic would trip it so that option may be out. Maybe a combo of bar towel and turning the mic the other way might help. They say they have had bands and dicsos there before.. but that doesn't really prove anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
High score Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 Main issues with sound limiting systems is that they are based around one small section of the ring main so it is a complete power trip and not a controlled shut down so any programmable equipment tends to get wiped out. It also not unknown for it to reboot itself which is not clever either. These sytems are usually forced on the venue due to noise complaints so that when the venue applies for it's next entertainments license, the local council/ police will consider the objections and push for an installation. The main trouble is the level the system is set at. What has been stated in previous threads shows is set it may be the same as ambient noise which is bizarre. I have tested a venues system and found the traffic noise outside to be higher than the sound level control system inside the room. I hate to admit it but I have bypassed as well but be warned, local authorities can and will do random monitoring and if you have tampered with the small pickup (usually in the ceiling) or bypassed the system by using power outwith the controlled ring main then the penalties are pretty stiff for both the performers and venue. Unfortunately, it can only be bad for live music............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 When we played the Tramshed the meter was peaking into the red right from the moment ths drummer started setting his drums up, until we left. It was peaking [i]before[/i] we plugged anything in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howieee Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 my band played in a pub in dawlish south devon and the meter was on 3 reds permanantly while we sound checked and cut out after like 10 seconds. so we sourced power from somewere elsein the pub and played all night with the metetr displaying 3 reds well the pub asked for a rock adn roll band and thats what they bloodywell got! hahaha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldGit Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='669947' date='Nov 30 2009, 01:04 PM']Personally (and i know im in the minority) we would never turn a gig down just because of a sound meter. yes, its a headache sometimes but so is turning down £200+ each. We make sure the bride and groom know the meter is there and what will happen if it trips but end of the day, its not our fault if it does and we arent even playing.[/quote] Sure but we get so many more gig enquiries than we can play that something else will come along so we don't loose any money or whatever... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='OldGit' post='671723' date='Dec 1 2009, 11:36 PM']Sure but we get so many more gig enquiries than we can play that something else will come along so we don't loose any money or whatever...[/quote] Yeah, i can understand that and although we do get quite a lot of gigs we dont risk turning any down in case that date doesn't get filled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
endorka Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='dave_bass5' post='669947' date='Nov 30 2009, 01:04 PM']Personally (and i know im in the minority) we would never turn a gig down just because of a sound meter. yes, its a headache sometimes but so is turning down £200+ each. We make sure the bride and groom know the meter is there and what will happen if it trips but end of the day, its not our fault if it does and we arent even playing.[/quote] I am absolutely in agreement with this - I just can't afford to turn away lucrative gigs because or the requirement to play quietly. Playing quietly is no bother anyway, unless you have a numbskull drummer who is incapable of playing with dynamics. Has it occured to anyone that there may be a genuine reason for the installation of these devices, i.e. the venue was being irresponsible with respect to noise levels and ruining the lives of people living nearby? I've played in venues with these, and they've tripped on us. So, adjust volume levels downwards, (including the drummer), then proceed. Easy. I don't see what the fuss is about. Jennifer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Depends on the venue... I deal with a lot of audio installation companies and they tell me that these are put in place mainly by the local council when venues come to re-new licenses. Now the venue may or may not be responsible for causing a nuisance with sound levels but it's not always the case. Out of the 100 or so 'Venue gigs' I played at this year, a good majority of them had SPL meters. Most we were able to work with, keeping below the limit. Some places we just bypassed altogether on willing authority of the management. There are places where these things just do not work. Last year we had a venue, fairly posh affair where we were to play in the bar/lounge area. We got there and set up only to find that the limiter that we had not been told about on our pre-gig meeting at the venue was tripping out with the background noise of the bar...... needless to say we couldn't play and had very angry Bride and Groom. We pointed this out to the management who had to take full responsibility and moved the band into the Dining hall to play. Some venues! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 [quote name='crez5150' post='671844' date='Dec 2 2009, 09:22 AM']We pointed this out to the management who had to take full responsibility and moved the band into the Dining hall to play. Some venues![/quote] Exactly. Its the venues being greedy IMO. They know the levels have been set too low (and i guess for a good reason by the local authorities) yet they dont tell the wedding couples about this and let them go ahead with booking a live band, then when the band keep cutting out the guests start blaming the band. While its not normally the done thing to moan about anything to the B&G on their big day we have to point this problem out to them, otherwise we will get a bad report back to the agent. And its funny that when we moan to the venue we always get told how other bands dont find it a problem. Yet, sometimes its the audience that could be tripping the meter when the band isnt even playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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